Who Runs the Best MCC Course ?
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Who Runs the Best MCC Course ?
I am researching which company to do my MCC course with and would welcome any feedback.
Also if possible state which SIM they use as I quite fancy doing it on a Full Motion Jet Simulator.
Regards
DB
Also if possible state which SIM they use as I quite fancy doing it on a Full Motion Jet Simulator.
Regards
DB
Student-Pilot-UK,
Got to say that the imprersion that I get is that there are some MCC's out there that just tick the box, others try and give you something for it. To be honest, if your going to pay for it, you might as well learn something.
I can recomend LGU in the latter category.
Enjoy.
S
Got to say that the imprersion that I get is that there are some MCC's out there that just tick the box, others try and give you something for it. To be honest, if your going to pay for it, you might as well learn something.
I can recomend LGU in the latter category.
Enjoy.
S
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kwaiyai can you give us a run down on what you did with them.
How many hours in the sim etc.
I see that the cost of that course is quite alot higher than the FNPT2. But i can see a huge benift for Interview check rides.
MJ
How many hours in the sim etc.
I see that the cost of that course is quite alot higher than the FNPT2. But i can see a huge benift for Interview check rides.
MJ
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I also wished to do the MCC on a jet sim, but due to lack of funds went to Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry. They use a FNPTII with an exact Beech 200 King-Air cockpit.
Two and a bit days of groundschool covers the CRM and Human Performance aspect, then it's 20 hours in the sim, split 50/50 between PF and PNF.
Only two victims on each course, so you fly as a dedicated crew for the whole week. To be honest, having no experience of anything faster than a small piston twin, the workload on a King-Air is a big enough leap initially. Climb rates of 2 -3000 fpm on a SID combined with 300Kt+ groundspeeds in the cruise at times is enough of a challenge without wishing you were doing it in a 757. Clockwork instruments, basic autopilot and no autothrottle also up the ante.
Each daily sim session consists of two sectors, an 'out and back', with each pilot taking turn about as PF and PNF. Each pilot also has equal time on each side of the cockpit. Sectors tend to last an hour or so each, e.g. Stansted to EDI, for example. Later in the course weather and fuel emergencies are thrown in, making everything very realistic. The operational aspect is covered well, with computerised flight plans, company calls, pushback off-stand and pax announcements; all the stuff they didn't cover on the IR, basically.
Pete Humphries was the chap in charge, a bloke with a wealth of experience both in very fast machinery and as a turbine sim instructor. I highly recommend him.
ST
Two and a bit days of groundschool covers the CRM and Human Performance aspect, then it's 20 hours in the sim, split 50/50 between PF and PNF.
Only two victims on each course, so you fly as a dedicated crew for the whole week. To be honest, having no experience of anything faster than a small piston twin, the workload on a King-Air is a big enough leap initially. Climb rates of 2 -3000 fpm on a SID combined with 300Kt+ groundspeeds in the cruise at times is enough of a challenge without wishing you were doing it in a 757. Clockwork instruments, basic autopilot and no autothrottle also up the ante.
Each daily sim session consists of two sectors, an 'out and back', with each pilot taking turn about as PF and PNF. Each pilot also has equal time on each side of the cockpit. Sectors tend to last an hour or so each, e.g. Stansted to EDI, for example. Later in the course weather and fuel emergencies are thrown in, making everything very realistic. The operational aspect is covered well, with computerised flight plans, company calls, pushback off-stand and pax announcements; all the stuff they didn't cover on the IR, basically.
Pete Humphries was the chap in charge, a bloke with a wealth of experience both in very fast machinery and as a turbine sim instructor. I highly recommend him.
ST
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I'd agree with Speed Twelve when doing an MCC course you dont want spend too much time learning how to fly the Sim. MCC is not a flying course however it will teach you a great deal about Multi crew ops.
I did my course with the Flight centre at Wolverhampton. At £1800 it must be one of the cheapest courses about. However I thought the course was well run and the staff friendly.
cheers
MJR
I did my course with the Flight centre at Wolverhampton. At £1800 it must be one of the cheapest courses about. However I thought the course was well run and the staff friendly.
cheers
MJR
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Have to agree with Speed Twelve and MJR! IMHO unless you are a total whizz doing an MCC on a full motion jet sim is not worth it. The course is after all there to teach you multi crew. Therefore if you use up too much mental capacity coming to grips with EFIS with all its multiple display functions you will probably miss out on the MCC aspect of the flight detail because you will be too busy monitoring the systems to appreciate it!
Did my course on an FNPT2 sim (based on Kingair 200) and in complexity terms found it more than an adequate jump from a basic piston twin. Learnt an awful lot about good multi crew co-operation.
I would recommend London Guildhall University (now London Metropolitan).
Did my course on an FNPT2 sim (based on Kingair 200) and in complexity terms found it more than an adequate jump from a basic piston twin. Learnt an awful lot about good multi crew co-operation.
I would recommend London Guildhall University (now London Metropolitan).
Indeed. Cheapest is best and forget the thrill of getting to play with yout first big sim. That will soon wear off when you get your first job - believe me.
Its possibly better if you get an airline simride that you can point out that - in fact - this is the very first time you have sat in a proper sim before. It should buy you some appropriate latitude.
WWW
Its possibly better if you get an airline simride that you can point out that - in fact - this is the very first time you have sat in a proper sim before. It should buy you some appropriate latitude.
WWW
WWW,
I didnt do mine for Quote the thrill of flying my first big sim. I did it it to learn something which I did. I do agree your point about cost though nevertheless I still reckon the Xtra pennies was worth it.
My personal view of course.
I didnt do mine for Quote the thrill of flying my first big sim. I did it it to learn something which I did. I do agree your point about cost though nevertheless I still reckon the Xtra pennies was worth it.
My personal view of course.
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As a current driver for UK airline ( having a quite browse around wannabees), I am afraid I have to disagree with www. The cheapest MCC course is not always the one to go for. You need to take into account the relevence and quality of the instruction.
I also disagree a little with Crosswind.... The EFIS FMA will be your bread and butter for the future whatever type you fly. You must learn to integrate with the aircraft as well as the other pilot. If you cant tell what the aircraft is doing then you will be on the road to becoming another AAIB statistic (see Strasbourg A320 with FPA instead of VS, Cali B757 etc etc)... with the AP disengaged the problem is worse since you will both have reduced capacity.... remember you still need to program the FD.
I recommend you do look around for a course but dont do it at the expense of relevent and up to date knowledge you could get for just a little more outlay... talk to those that have gone before you and find out from them what course was like and dont dismiss advise from those who have been ther because you have your own prejudice( although I know these are usually the same prejudices as the bank manager )
Ps... the ground has a PK of .99, dont take a chance on getting into the .01
I also disagree a little with Crosswind.... The EFIS FMA will be your bread and butter for the future whatever type you fly. You must learn to integrate with the aircraft as well as the other pilot. If you cant tell what the aircraft is doing then you will be on the road to becoming another AAIB statistic (see Strasbourg A320 with FPA instead of VS, Cali B757 etc etc)... with the AP disengaged the problem is worse since you will both have reduced capacity.... remember you still need to program the FD.
I recommend you do look around for a course but dont do it at the expense of relevent and up to date knowledge you could get for just a little more outlay... talk to those that have gone before you and find out from them what course was like and dont dismiss advise from those who have been ther because you have your own prejudice( although I know these are usually the same prejudices as the bank manager
)Ps... the ground has a PK of .99, dont take a chance on getting into the .01
Last edited by Plastic Penguin; 26th Jan 2003 at 10:23.
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I agree with plastic. I done the oxford course on the 737-400 learnt the same as the guys in the turbo prop sims BUT I got 20 hours operating a 737 with all the bits plus two crew. I now feel WHEN I do a sim ride I will have little problem coping. The only word of caution is the low houred guys with me did have a problem with the actual flying and could not wait to hit HDG SEL/L NAV given the option, so they might not have got the most out of it.
