Captain Title
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 409
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From: Costa Del Solent
Captain Title
Hi Guys, Happy New Year.
Just out of interest, what is the procedure when you have the necessary qualifications in order to change your Mr. (or Mrs.) to Cptn.?
Trislander
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"Ayline 551.." Yada Yada
Just out of interest, what is the procedure when you have the necessary qualifications in order to change your Mr. (or Mrs.) to Cptn.?
Trislander
---------------------------
"Ayline 551.." Yada Yada
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 143
Likes: 1
From: UK
There is no procedure for it, just a massive ego crisis I suppose... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
But the ultimate thing is certainly to sew four gold stripes on your pyjama jacket.Very impressive!
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Leo45 ]</p>
But the ultimate thing is certainly to sew four gold stripes on your pyjama jacket.Very impressive!
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Leo45 ]</p>
The Oracle
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
From: Naples, Florida U.S.A.
Trislander,
Actually you earn it. You put in your time, get your experience. Then get a job flying for an airline, once again you put in your time till you make Captain. Then you earn the right to be called Captain.
Sincerely,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
Actually you earn it. You put in your time, get your experience. Then get a job flying for an airline, once again you put in your time till you make Captain. Then you earn the right to be called Captain.
Sincerely,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
And, as Richard's post above shows, the correct abbreviation of Captain is Capt. If you are going to appropriate the title for your non-aviation life (why??), at least get it right.
Frankly, those who need to know you're a captain will give you the appropriate respect (if and when you've earned it). Why should those who don't need to know care one way or the other?
Frankly, those who need to know you're a captain will give you the appropriate respect (if and when you've earned it). Why should those who don't need to know care one way or the other?
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 170
From: uk
The title 'Captain' is relevant only in the
context of your day to day working life. It is
of no relevance whatsoever elsewhere and in my
view at least should not be used in any other context. As an aside our ex-military colleagues are only 'entitled' to use ranks of Major(or equivilant) and above in retirement from the forces but thankfully precious few of them do so as far as I am aware.
It seems the notion of being a 'Captain' goes
back to the sea where everyone in charge of a
vessel from the tiniest fishing smack up to a great ocean liner would be called Captain - if one
of a tiny number of skippers of the great liners
or supertankers then perhaps justified but when
one goes down the scale ? The black/blue uniforms
covered in braid and scrambled egg on the cap - it
all dates back to the great days of seafaring. We
put up with it to this day in the airline business
but please when you get back into the car on the
way home leave it on the back seat. To insist on
being called Captain when being called up by crewing(yes, people do !) is nothing more than
pretentious - you know you've done the time and
made the effort to reach the LHS - why go on an
ego-trip, its just not that important !
context of your day to day working life. It is
of no relevance whatsoever elsewhere and in my
view at least should not be used in any other context. As an aside our ex-military colleagues are only 'entitled' to use ranks of Major(or equivilant) and above in retirement from the forces but thankfully precious few of them do so as far as I am aware.
It seems the notion of being a 'Captain' goes
back to the sea where everyone in charge of a
vessel from the tiniest fishing smack up to a great ocean liner would be called Captain - if one
of a tiny number of skippers of the great liners
or supertankers then perhaps justified but when
one goes down the scale ? The black/blue uniforms
covered in braid and scrambled egg on the cap - it
all dates back to the great days of seafaring. We
put up with it to this day in the airline business
but please when you get back into the car on the
way home leave it on the back seat. To insist on
being called Captain when being called up by crewing(yes, people do !) is nothing more than
pretentious - you know you've done the time and
made the effort to reach the LHS - why go on an
ego-trip, its just not that important !
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: Costa Del Solent
Naples Air Center - Thank you for your answer. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
----------------------------------------------
Everyone else-
Well thank you for your ever-so-kind replies!
If you read the first line of my post, it says "out of interest" because I was asked by someone who has little knowledge of aviation and thought that I, as a PPL, might have some idea WHICH I DO NOT BECAUSE I AM NOT A CAPTAIN so I thought the ever-cooperative (I now laugh) wannabes might like to help me answer his question.
Thanks for nothing.
Trislander. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
----------------------------------------------
Everyone else-
Well thank you for your ever-so-kind replies!
If you read the first line of my post, it says "out of interest" because I was asked by someone who has little knowledge of aviation and thought that I, as a PPL, might have some idea WHICH I DO NOT BECAUSE I AM NOT A CAPTAIN so I thought the ever-cooperative (I now laugh) wannabes might like to help me answer his question.
Thanks for nothing.
Trislander. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 226
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From: U.A.E.
The people I've flown with or known in the past who have felt the need to put Capt. in front of their name, outside of work, have been absolute tossers, to a man.
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Loc-out ]</p>
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Loc-out ]</p>
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 1
From: Egcc
Capt. Gentil
You distinctly told me to call you 'Richard' as we drove around Naples Airport on your golf cart looking at the 150's of a rival that were drying out from another 'Gulf ditching'!
Beamer
You'd be suprised just how many 'Majors' and above use their title. I worked in a small branch of Lloyds Bank when I left school and we had at least 3 on the books.......tossers? Every one of them to a man!
regards
First Officer Pilot Pete JMC, 15m Breast Stroke.
You distinctly told me to call you 'Richard' as we drove around Naples Airport on your golf cart looking at the 150's of a rival that were drying out from another 'Gulf ditching'!
Beamer
You'd be suprised just how many 'Majors' and above use their title. I worked in a small branch of Lloyds Bank when I left school and we had at least 3 on the books.......tossers? Every one of them to a man!
regards
First Officer Pilot Pete JMC, 15m Breast Stroke.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
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From: Suffolk UK
Trislander,
sorry if you found my reply a bit 'robust'; it wasn't meant to be - but your post did come over as though you were planning your elevation to Capt and wondering how you would change the headed writing paper from chez Tri!
In UK, perhaps more than the US, the use of a professional title, other than Doctor, outside the place of work is somewhat frowned upon by society. You may speculate on the UK society's love of mediocrity and its reluctance to celebrate success as perhaps the reason for this, but it is so. As a result, we tend not to use our title outside work - even our own people sneer at the 'vanity' of those who do style themselves Capt. Bloggs in civilian life. Even Knights and Peers of the Realm are now somewhat coy about their titles, usually earned by bloody hard work in some field or other.
It's interesting to compare this with, say, Italian society in which one is expected to wear one's professional title with pride - witness the prefix 'Ing.' for engineer.
Discuss, with examples....!
sorry if you found my reply a bit 'robust'; it wasn't meant to be - but your post did come over as though you were planning your elevation to Capt and wondering how you would change the headed writing paper from chez Tri!
In UK, perhaps more than the US, the use of a professional title, other than Doctor, outside the place of work is somewhat frowned upon by society. You may speculate on the UK society's love of mediocrity and its reluctance to celebrate success as perhaps the reason for this, but it is so. As a result, we tend not to use our title outside work - even our own people sneer at the 'vanity' of those who do style themselves Capt. Bloggs in civilian life. Even Knights and Peers of the Realm are now somewhat coy about their titles, usually earned by bloody hard work in some field or other.
It's interesting to compare this with, say, Italian society in which one is expected to wear one's professional title with pride - witness the prefix 'Ing.' for engineer.
Discuss, with examples....!
Guest
Posts: n/a
One should refer to self using professional titles in other than in a strictly professional environment. This sort of thing may be the done thing in deepest, darkest Africa, but never in England, unless the desired effect is to create the impression of being some sort of Capt. Mainwaring wannabe.
As an aside, in polite circles, correct etiquette dictates that hotel reservations et al should be made in one's surname only.
As an aside, in polite circles, correct etiquette dictates that hotel reservations et al should be made in one's surname only.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
From: Chichester, UK
Scroggs
Just to add to your point about Ing. being used as a prefix in Italy, if you get a CEng from the UK Engineering Council or associated institutions then you can also get EurIng from the Federation Europeene d'Associations Nationales d'Ingenieurs. CEng, being British, goes after your name, while EurIng, being European, can be used before your name. I think you are right about the reasons why.
Now, EurIng Dr Evo7 DPhil CEng etc. is a bit of a mouthful, but I guess I could use it. I've got a CPhys too (with an associated EurPhys) which would really make it long winded.... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Trilander
My reply was serious. There is no 'procedure' - if it matters to you then you simply ask people to change the title they use. I'm split between Mr. and Dr., just because there are some situations - mostly professional - where it is worth using Dr. However, I couldn't give a stuff what the bank call me and can't be faffed trying to get them to change it. As others have pointed out, it's what your peers think of you that counts anyway.
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Evo7 ]</p>
Just to add to your point about Ing. being used as a prefix in Italy, if you get a CEng from the UK Engineering Council or associated institutions then you can also get EurIng from the Federation Europeene d'Associations Nationales d'Ingenieurs. CEng, being British, goes after your name, while EurIng, being European, can be used before your name. I think you are right about the reasons why.
Now, EurIng Dr Evo7 DPhil CEng etc. is a bit of a mouthful, but I guess I could use it. I've got a CPhys too (with an associated EurPhys) which would really make it long winded.... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Trilander
My reply was serious. There is no 'procedure' - if it matters to you then you simply ask people to change the title they use. I'm split between Mr. and Dr., just because there are some situations - mostly professional - where it is worth using Dr. However, I couldn't give a stuff what the bank call me and can't be faffed trying to get them to change it. As others have pointed out, it's what your peers think of you that counts anyway.
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Evo7 ]</p>
Flies for fun
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 789
Likes: 0
From: Wishing it was somewhere sunny!
Surely, if you are a PPL in command of ANY aircraft as PIC then one is entitled to be called Capt. What difference does size make? It's not the size, it's the way you operate it that counts! 
Capt. Sensible
Capt. Sensible
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 170
From: uk
Pilot Pete
I am sorry to hear that quite so many people use
ex-military rank - I was always a little concerned
about CAPTAIN Mark Phillips and the like - perhaps
it is deemed acceptable in 'horsey' circles ?
Scroggs is quite correct in his analysis of society in the UK where generally a certain amount
of understatement is deemed appropriate.
Doctors it seems have really made it up the tree
when they become consultants and are then now by
the prefix MR (no sexism intended ladies). Pilots
know they have made it when having achieved command of a proper aircraft(here comes the flak)
they can put their gold or silver braid on their
shoulders and forget about it- the ones who go on
and on about it just need to grow up a little.
Mind you - I did come across a chap on the UK
airline scene who wore a medal ribbon on his
company uniform - and no, it was'nt an AFC just
a widely awarded campaign gong - very strange !
I am sorry to hear that quite so many people use
ex-military rank - I was always a little concerned
about CAPTAIN Mark Phillips and the like - perhaps
it is deemed acceptable in 'horsey' circles ?
Scroggs is quite correct in his analysis of society in the UK where generally a certain amount
of understatement is deemed appropriate.
Doctors it seems have really made it up the tree
when they become consultants and are then now by
the prefix MR (no sexism intended ladies). Pilots
know they have made it when having achieved command of a proper aircraft(here comes the flak)
they can put their gold or silver braid on their
shoulders and forget about it- the ones who go on
and on about it just need to grow up a little.
Mind you - I did come across a chap on the UK
airline scene who wore a medal ribbon on his
company uniform - and no, it was'nt an AFC just
a widely awarded campaign gong - very strange !
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
From: Chichester, UK
[quote]
Doctors it seems have really made it up the tree
when they become consultants and are then now by
the prefix MR (no sexism intended ladies).
<hr></blockquote>
Surgeons, rather than consultants, revert to Mr. by tradition once they qualify - in the dim and distant past a surgeon did not do a degree in medicine. However, at least in the UK, calling a person with a batchelor's degree in medicine 'Doctor' is actually an honourific (much like calling the chap in the left hand seat Captain), and so a surgeon is not actually giving anything up - he or she doesn't actually have the title in the first place. An actual medical Doctorate is a postgraduate degree taken by medics who already hold a batchelor's degree in medicine and, I think, surgery.
Doctors it seems have really made it up the tree
when they become consultants and are then now by
the prefix MR (no sexism intended ladies).
<hr></blockquote>
Surgeons, rather than consultants, revert to Mr. by tradition once they qualify - in the dim and distant past a surgeon did not do a degree in medicine. However, at least in the UK, calling a person with a batchelor's degree in medicine 'Doctor' is actually an honourific (much like calling the chap in the left hand seat Captain), and so a surgeon is not actually giving anything up - he or she doesn't actually have the title in the first place. An actual medical Doctorate is a postgraduate degree taken by medics who already hold a batchelor's degree in medicine and, I think, surgery.
Alba Gu Brath
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 745
Likes: 3
From: Merseyside
Upon retirment from the Britsh Army one is permitted to be addressed by military rank only if one had achieved major or above (or equivalent in other services). Capt. Mark Phillips' indiscretion was overlooked on the grounds of him being married to royalty.
During my time serving Her Maj' I saw no end of people with Wg Cdr (rtd) on business cards, credit cards, cheque cards, etc. I never saw any with Sgt(rtd) on them tho'. Vanity is a wonderful thing.
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Big Tudor ]</p>
During my time serving Her Maj' I saw no end of people with Wg Cdr (rtd) on business cards, credit cards, cheque cards, etc. I never saw any with Sgt(rtd) on them tho'. Vanity is a wonderful thing.
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: Big Tudor ]</p>
