Easyjet Cadet Sponsorship
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Easyjet Cadet Sponsorship
Just seen this appear on Easy's Website - no good if you're an old gimmer like me.
http://www.easyjet.com/en/jobs/pilot...hipscheme.html
http://www.easyjet.com/en/jobs/pilot...hipscheme.html
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It would seem that Easy may be coming to the end of the supply of rated 737 drivers!
Have a close look at the Type Rating SPONSORSHIP scheme! Exactly where is the sponsorship? You pay us for the training and we'll repay you over 5 years at 5000 GBP/year. Yeah great, except the basic salary is 5000 GBP/year less than a normal first officer wage.
Why not just be honest and say that the jobs at easy will now require a self-sponsored type rating? Because (as has been pointed out elsewhere) people who own their own rating have the ability to up and leave without breaking a bond. Easy want it both ways - you pay for your training but we'll also bond you with your own money!
There is plenty of discontent in orange-land folks. They are finding it harder to attract experienced drivers. Please don't get yourself tied up in bank loans and a bond which you have already paid for.
PS : The spelling throughout the recruitment section of the website is bloody terrible!!
Have a close look at the Type Rating SPONSORSHIP scheme! Exactly where is the sponsorship? You pay us for the training and we'll repay you over 5 years at 5000 GBP/year. Yeah great, except the basic salary is 5000 GBP/year less than a normal first officer wage.
Why not just be honest and say that the jobs at easy will now require a self-sponsored type rating? Because (as has been pointed out elsewhere) people who own their own rating have the ability to up and leave without breaking a bond. Easy want it both ways - you pay for your training but we'll also bond you with your own money!
There is plenty of discontent in orange-land folks. They are finding it harder to attract experienced drivers. Please don't get yourself tied up in bank loans and a bond which you have already paid for.
PS : The spelling throughout the recruitment section of the website is bloody terrible!!
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I don't think I've ever heard of such a left-field method of putting yourself into comical, beyond-mortgage levels of debt. £60,000.00 is a huge amount to be saddled with if Easy decide they don't like you, or Uncle Dubya picks a fight. Easy appear to think this won't be a problem, but I'm not in the best of states after Uni already. Another £60k wouldn't so much push me over the brink, more strap me to a JATO unit and fire me off it.
That said, it's the only way I'm likely to get into the RHS before I'm 35, so here goes...
BTW can somebody post the link to CTC McAlpine, which is mentioned as a source of further onfo, but there's no link.
PS. Grivation: it's £12k/year over seven years. The £5k reference is your pocket money in NZ. Still a bit of a sting, though.
PPS: Can anyone confirm that a senior first officer is just a first officer with a full ATPL, or am I talking cobblers again?
That said, it's the only way I'm likely to get into the RHS before I'm 35, so here goes...
BTW can somebody post the link to CTC McAlpine, which is mentioned as a source of further onfo, but there's no link.
PS. Grivation: it's £12k/year over seven years. The £5k reference is your pocket money in NZ. Still a bit of a sting, though.
PPS: Can anyone confirm that a senior first officer is just a first officer with a full ATPL, or am I talking cobblers again?
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...and the catch...
What happens if I pass the course but you don't employ me?
This would only occur if our plans for new hire pilots changed unexpectedly. However, in this most unlikely event you would remain liable for the repayments of any loan arrangements you have made, but our partners, CTC McAlpine, would make every effort to place you in alternative employment.
In your dreams
What happens if I pass the course but you don't employ me?
This would only occur if our plans for new hire pilots changed unexpectedly. However, in this most unlikely event you would remain liable for the repayments of any loan arrangements you have made, but our partners, CTC McAlpine, would make every effort to place you in alternative employment.
In your dreams
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Hmmmmmm ....
here's a bit of food for thought for you young wannabes, before you all go into hysterias of excitement into this.
The current going rate for a New Zealand FATPL is about $40,000 kiwi dollars.
The exchange rate this morning is 3.16 NZ$ to the GB pound.
In other words, a whole kiwi CPL/IR can be acquired for just under 13.000 pound.
Based on personal experience and a lot of my colleagues, the conversion from low time NZ CPL/IR to JAA FATPL will probably cost between 6,000 and 8,000 quid.
Then, you could go do the regular old CTC academy course for 6,000 quid.
You're now in a similar position to the Easy cadets, having forked out a total outlay of around 26,000 pounds ... a little under half of what Easy are asking you for.
Option 2, for those of you who were too old or didn't fancy going through CTC, could just go buy a regular 737 rating after your conversion, at whatever the going rate is (no idea but I'm guessing maybe 20,000 pound?)
Total outlay of 40 grand, and you're now a free agent with 737 rating, and no 7-year-bond-with-pitifully-small-salary to look forward to.
I'll do my best to find out which flying school in NZ is behind all this and get back to you all, however rest assured that on the initial figures it looks like you're paying way way over the odds for what you end up with ... someone is making an absolute PILE of cash at wannabe's expense here
here's a bit of food for thought for you young wannabes, before you all go into hysterias of excitement into this.
The current going rate for a New Zealand FATPL is about $40,000 kiwi dollars.
The exchange rate this morning is 3.16 NZ$ to the GB pound.
In other words, a whole kiwi CPL/IR can be acquired for just under 13.000 pound.
Based on personal experience and a lot of my colleagues, the conversion from low time NZ CPL/IR to JAA FATPL will probably cost between 6,000 and 8,000 quid.
Then, you could go do the regular old CTC academy course for 6,000 quid.
You're now in a similar position to the Easy cadets, having forked out a total outlay of around 26,000 pounds ... a little under half of what Easy are asking you for.
Option 2, for those of you who were too old or didn't fancy going through CTC, could just go buy a regular 737 rating after your conversion, at whatever the going rate is (no idea but I'm guessing maybe 20,000 pound?)
Total outlay of 40 grand, and you're now a free agent with 737 rating, and no 7-year-bond-with-pitifully-small-salary to look forward to.
I'll do my best to find out which flying school in NZ is behind all this and get back to you all, however rest assured that on the initial figures it looks like you're paying way way over the odds for what you end up with ... someone is making an absolute PILE of cash at wannabe's expense here
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What are you guys on? The pay after joining the airline is better than the BA cadetship. That’s the only other one that doesn’t need a fortune up front and BA don’t do it anymore. This is streets ahead of the Britannia and Flybe cadetships that came up during the last couple of months. Check out the money back if you fail, etc. This is awesome.
There’s reference on one of the websites of JMC doing it too but not much info.
You moan and whinge all day about there being no jobs, and training costing too much, and the world owing you a living. Then along comes a chance and you moan and whinge about that. Well carry on moaning guys cause I want less competition when I apply for this.
There’s reference on one of the websites of JMC doing it too but not much info.
You moan and whinge all day about there being no jobs, and training costing too much, and the world owing you a living. Then along comes a chance and you moan and whinge about that. Well carry on moaning guys cause I want less competition when I apply for this.
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Why are Easy doing this?
Isn't there enough people out there with hours and in desperate need of a job? Its like a kick in the face!
So why do all the airlines go on about needing so many hours to get a job with them when you can do a cadet scheme in jump straight into the RHS? Hours is just a culling method. The more hours you have may mean you have more experience but what Easy are now doing goes against that.
I just think its wrong if any airlines are doing cadet schemes at the moment with a lot of people still out of work.
Cadet schemes will always be the easy road to take if you can get it, and if you can great. But it undermines everyone else out there who are doing the hard yards.
Isn't there enough people out there with hours and in desperate need of a job? Its like a kick in the face!
So why do all the airlines go on about needing so many hours to get a job with them when you can do a cadet scheme in jump straight into the RHS? Hours is just a culling method. The more hours you have may mean you have more experience but what Easy are now doing goes against that.
I just think its wrong if any airlines are doing cadet schemes at the moment with a lot of people still out of work.
Cadet schemes will always be the easy road to take if you can get it, and if you can great. But it undermines everyone else out there who are doing the hard yards.
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Yeah, on reflection, it does gut me a bit to see this from Easy ... they are probably the UK company I would like to work for above all others ... I have around 10 times the hours that these cadets are gonna have, including a decent amount of IFR air transport and I haven't been able to get a sniff of interest from Easy ... meanwhile these cadets are going to take another few right seats away from the high-hours-but-no-type-rating direct entry boys.
Easy are about the only airline that's been hiring for the last 18 months, so fair play to them for finding a way to use their position in the marketplace to make money out of wannabe pilots, but it's bloody demoralising to watch people with not even 5 or 10 percent of your flying experience, sliding straight into a seat that you would dearly love to be in yourself
Easy are about the only airline that's been hiring for the last 18 months, so fair play to them for finding a way to use their position in the marketplace to make money out of wannabe pilots, but it's bloody demoralising to watch people with not even 5 or 10 percent of your flying experience, sliding straight into a seat that you would dearly love to be in yourself
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Open wide gift horse
Let me get this straight. You want me to give you £60,000. If I haven’t got it, you’ll lend it to me. In return, you are going to give me:
£84,000 back
£12,000 in living expenses
A 2 year course that includes everything I can think of
A fATPL
A 737 (or A319?) type rating
A job on a 737/A319
And that’s a bad deal? Keep talking my friends; I’m off to find the front of the queue.
£84,000 back
£12,000 in living expenses
A 2 year course that includes everything I can think of
A fATPL
A 737 (or A319?) type rating
A job on a 737/A319
And that’s a bad deal? Keep talking my friends; I’m off to find the front of the queue.
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Sounds like an okay deal to me!! If all goes well you get hired by EZY and have paid nothing for your training (in effect once EZY have repaid you your bond). If you don't get hired all you have done is paid for your own fAPTL, which you would have done anyway if you didn't get on to a sponshorship scheme.
2 questions:
1) Having read all the info, am I right in saying that applications don't open until 2.12.2002?
2) Has anyone heard any rumours about possible course dates? (Not getting overly optimistic or arrogant, but would be useful to know if they will want people by March or August.)
2 questions:
1) Having read all the info, am I right in saying that applications don't open until 2.12.2002?
2) Has anyone heard any rumours about possible course dates? (Not getting overly optimistic or arrogant, but would be useful to know if they will want people by March or August.)
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Unfortunately I am too old now at 25 and 6 months. Those of you that do meet the entry requirements good luck. At the end of the day there are terms and conditions like any sponsorship, but at the end of the course you get the RHS of a nice new shiny 737 or A319 with little time in your logbook.
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Timzsta
Silly question but have you checked this out with Ezy??
-Just that my initial impression was over 25 means 26...Maybe i'm wrong but i'd be tempted to apply anyway and let them make the judgement! Best of luck!!
Kram
I think I see what you're trying to say but I'm not sure that I agree.
I know a lot of people in the industry that have come through the 'hard yards' of the self improver route to becoming a commercial pilot and likewise know many cadet pilots who have achieved their ambitions travelling along the 'easy road'.
I think it's difficult to make comparisons about the difficulty of either route, rather comparing apples and oranges.
Firstly many of the self improvers would not have been able to complete a cadet course -for a variety of reasons... family commitments, wrong place wrong time etc.. but by self improving it has allowed them to tailor their training and career progresssion to suit themselves and their lifestyles (children etc). I would agree that the level of commitment required to follow this route would be high, particularly as such a route usually takes far longer than an intensive cadet course.
However the cadet pilot has to make the commitment to drop pretty much everything for the year of the course. The day to day pressure that they face (with regard to the flying course at least) is quite high with the sponsoring airline always looking over their shoulder. The cadet usually has the RHS of a nice aeroplane to look forward to.........but try telling that to some of the sponsored cadets from various airlines graduating in the last two years...
Also the pressure of having someone else (the sponsoring company) having the final say on your training and progress adds to the pressure (A different type of pressure from the self improver with a 1001 other things to think about).
I think it's fair to say neither is an 'easy road'...and a few 'hard yards' are completed either way.
As for the schemes undermining everyone else out there again I would have to disagree. The airline industry is notoriously fickle -ring them at 9.30 they have no plans to recruit, 9.45 with two resignations on the desk and they have a crew shortage!! At least the schemes demonstrate a commitment by the airlines to taking a longer term view towards recruitment. There will always be companys who want to sponsor their own cadets for whatever benefits they believe it brings. However no company could sponsor the number of cadets required to meet all of the future demand of the industry. There will always be a requirement for non cadet entrants when the industry is on the up and no requirement for anybody (regardless of whether sponsored or not) when the industry is in decline. If I were you Kram, rather than believing people are being undermined, i'd be celebrating companies beginning to sponsor again- it's a sign of them thinking they'll need pilots again soon (whatever their background) -A good sign for all of us in the industry whether employed or not!
All the best,
CTB
Unfortunately I am too old now at 25 and 6 months.
-Just that my initial impression was over 25 means 26...Maybe i'm wrong but i'd be tempted to apply anyway and let them make the judgement! Best of luck!!
Kram
Cadet schemes will always be the easy road to take if you can get it, and if you can great. But it undermines everyone else out there who are doing the hard yards.
I know a lot of people in the industry that have come through the 'hard yards' of the self improver route to becoming a commercial pilot and likewise know many cadet pilots who have achieved their ambitions travelling along the 'easy road'.
I think it's difficult to make comparisons about the difficulty of either route, rather comparing apples and oranges.
Firstly many of the self improvers would not have been able to complete a cadet course -for a variety of reasons... family commitments, wrong place wrong time etc.. but by self improving it has allowed them to tailor their training and career progresssion to suit themselves and their lifestyles (children etc). I would agree that the level of commitment required to follow this route would be high, particularly as such a route usually takes far longer than an intensive cadet course.
However the cadet pilot has to make the commitment to drop pretty much everything for the year of the course. The day to day pressure that they face (with regard to the flying course at least) is quite high with the sponsoring airline always looking over their shoulder. The cadet usually has the RHS of a nice aeroplane to look forward to.........but try telling that to some of the sponsored cadets from various airlines graduating in the last two years...
Also the pressure of having someone else (the sponsoring company) having the final say on your training and progress adds to the pressure (A different type of pressure from the self improver with a 1001 other things to think about).
I think it's fair to say neither is an 'easy road'...and a few 'hard yards' are completed either way.
As for the schemes undermining everyone else out there again I would have to disagree. The airline industry is notoriously fickle -ring them at 9.30 they have no plans to recruit, 9.45 with two resignations on the desk and they have a crew shortage!! At least the schemes demonstrate a commitment by the airlines to taking a longer term view towards recruitment. There will always be companys who want to sponsor their own cadets for whatever benefits they believe it brings. However no company could sponsor the number of cadets required to meet all of the future demand of the industry. There will always be a requirement for non cadet entrants when the industry is on the up and no requirement for anybody (regardless of whether sponsored or not) when the industry is in decline. If I were you Kram, rather than believing people are being undermined, i'd be celebrating companies beginning to sponsor again- it's a sign of them thinking they'll need pilots again soon (whatever their background) -A good sign for all of us in the industry whether employed or not!
All the best,
CTB
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This reads like a transcript from “Life of Brian”
“What did JMC and easyJet ever do for us? Nothing, that’s what”
“Yeah, it’s a bloody rip off”
“Apart from the job at the end”
“Well, yes, there’s the job at the end, but other than that, what did they ever do for us wannabes?”
“And give us our money back”
“OK, so they give us our money back, and we get a job at the end. But other than that it’s a real rip off”
“Other than give us our money back if we fail”
“All right, so they give us a job at the end and give us our money back if we pass, and if we fail, but lets face it that’s a real scam”
“Yeah, a scam”
“They do of course give us 12 grand in allowances”
“Only 12 grand? Bloody hell, I could train in Outer Mongolia, get a bus drivers licence, convert it into a UK toilet cleaner’s pass, be paid half a million quid in allowances and have change out of a fiver. 12 grand, huh.”
“So, other than giving us a job at the end and give us our money back if we pass, and if we fail, and paying us 12 grand in allowances, what have the Romans done for us, eh?”
“Nothing, that’s what”
“Yeah, nothing”
“Except……”
“What did JMC and easyJet ever do for us? Nothing, that’s what”
“Yeah, it’s a bloody rip off”
“Apart from the job at the end”
“Well, yes, there’s the job at the end, but other than that, what did they ever do for us wannabes?”
“And give us our money back”
“OK, so they give us our money back, and we get a job at the end. But other than that it’s a real rip off”
“Other than give us our money back if we fail”
“All right, so they give us a job at the end and give us our money back if we pass, and if we fail, but lets face it that’s a real scam”
“Yeah, a scam”
“They do of course give us 12 grand in allowances”
“Only 12 grand? Bloody hell, I could train in Outer Mongolia, get a bus drivers licence, convert it into a UK toilet cleaner’s pass, be paid half a million quid in allowances and have change out of a fiver. 12 grand, huh.”
“So, other than giving us a job at the end and give us our money back if we pass, and if we fail, and paying us 12 grand in allowances, what have the Romans done for us, eh?”
“Nothing, that’s what”
“Yeah, nothing”
“Except……”
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The thing that worries me about this sponsorship scheme is that the amount you are paying for the training seems to be atleas £20,000 over the going rate for this course.
I gained my NZCPL and IR over the course of a couple years and it set me back the grand amount of £12,000, this was the slow way of doing it as it wasn't a full time course. Add in all of my conversion costs to the JAR ATPL and I spent in total around the £21,000 mark. Since this is a semi structured course it would actually work out to me cheaper than this as there is no conversion costs if you do the JAR exams and flight tests instead of the NZ ones.
So where is the other £40,000 pounds going, take out the £5,000 living expenses and a type rated at a cost of £15,000 and you are still left with £20,000 that seems to dissapear. Then to rub insult to injury you are paid substancially less than a normal first officer. Yes you do get the bond back over the 5 years but you still have paid interest that this does not cover. Considering your are getting around £13,000 per year less than normal they are really just paying you a NORMAL wage. So its win win for Easyjet. Having said all of this however, who can turn their nose up at a 737 job and 9 months in NZ, not a bad way to go, so if you can support this cost then go for it but remember if it all goes pear shaped and you lose your job or EZ jet goes bust then £60,000 is a lot to owe considering you could have done it all on your own for £20,000 less!
I gained my NZCPL and IR over the course of a couple years and it set me back the grand amount of £12,000, this was the slow way of doing it as it wasn't a full time course. Add in all of my conversion costs to the JAR ATPL and I spent in total around the £21,000 mark. Since this is a semi structured course it would actually work out to me cheaper than this as there is no conversion costs if you do the JAR exams and flight tests instead of the NZ ones.
So where is the other £40,000 pounds going, take out the £5,000 living expenses and a type rated at a cost of £15,000 and you are still left with £20,000 that seems to dissapear. Then to rub insult to injury you are paid substancially less than a normal first officer. Yes you do get the bond back over the 5 years but you still have paid interest that this does not cover. Considering your are getting around £13,000 per year less than normal they are really just paying you a NORMAL wage. So its win win for Easyjet. Having said all of this however, who can turn their nose up at a 737 job and 9 months in NZ, not a bad way to go, so if you can support this cost then go for it but remember if it all goes pear shaped and you lose your job or EZ jet goes bust then £60,000 is a lot to owe considering you could have done it all on your own for £20,000 less!