Easyjet Cadet Sponsorship
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WWW, good point about JAR Instuctors missing out on all the flying training that will be done by local instructors in New Zealand. Also, this is a modular course, a very interesting deviation from nearly every airline recruitment departments saying low houred bods must come from an integrated course...
I really have grave doubts the school in New Zealand can deliver on this. They will have to have full JAR approval (do they have it yet?), and will need close monitoring by experienced training providers. Only 2 schools in the past have tried something like this outside of Europe and both of those were integrated schools, and both made a pigs ear of things. Only hope they know what they are doing, but somehow I doubt it.
Someone mentioned it is costly compared to local NZ costs, well it is not NZ training!
I really have grave doubts the school in New Zealand can deliver on this. They will have to have full JAR approval (do they have it yet?), and will need close monitoring by experienced training providers. Only 2 schools in the past have tried something like this outside of Europe and both of those were integrated schools, and both made a pigs ear of things. Only hope they know what they are doing, but somehow I doubt it.
Someone mentioned it is costly compared to local NZ costs, well it is not NZ training!
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I have just got off the 'phone after talking to one of the 'movers and shakers' in this scheme, from the McAlpine side of things. This is a guy I've known for 25 years, and I trust his judgement and word. My overall impression is that this is a very worthwhile scheme, and by far the most significant development on the 'Wannabes' front for some considerable time. If you are a Wannabe, and aren't already well into your training, then you should be looking very closely at this.
Firstly, this scheme is not limited to EasyJet, though they are the launch customer for it. EZ will be putting 24 cadets into the course in 2003, JMC will be putting 4 in. There are 6 places a month available, ie 72 a year, at present. While other airlines are likely to get involved, there are individual places available right now for those who are prepared to take the calculated risk that they could find themselves graduating with no job. In that case, I understand that CTC-McAlpine would continue to 'hold-pool' you until you were placed with an employer - and you would not be faced with instantly repaying your loan on graduation.
For those who haven't checked out the CTC-McAlpine website (www.ctc-mcalpine.com), this scheme is rather different from any other training set up. Firstly, the airlines are the customers, not the students. The airline contracts with CTC-McAlpine for a given number of line-ready pilots at a pre-defined cost (which is a lot more than your bond!), and to be delivered at a pre-defined date. Those airlines can either use their own recruiting system, or can rely on CTC-McAlpine's selection procedure. That means that this scheme can absorb students who are not sponsored at entry, but may become so during their training.
Of course, no student is guaranteed employment on graduation - as the BA Cadets discovered last year - but the nature of this course is such that it's unlikely that any graduate would remain unemployed for long, given reasonable market conditions. By 'the nature of this course' I mean that the course has apparently been developed to more closely reflect the demands of current civil airline practice right from Day 1 - and it goes right to the end of line training on type. I don't want to start an argument with the staffs of BAe or OAT, however, so I can't comment on whether the content of the course is better or worse than anyone else's.
Anyone can apply for the course, but older and more experienced candidates are probably less likely to be selected. That doesn't mean that you can't apply, nor that you won't be selected, however! I understand that there are procedures in place to adapt the course for successful candidates who have some experience. For those applying for the EZ scheme, the age limit on application is 25 years, 11 months, 30 days. For JMC, it is a year older. For non-airline-sponsored students, there is no official age limit, I gather; each candidate would be assessed on their merits. Bear in mind that CTC-McAlpine will have to sell you to an airline before you graduate, and you'll understand why I believe that older candidates are less likely to be selected. i may be wrong, however.
I've suggested that CTC-McAlpine open a questions e-mail link on their website, and that they then post a FAQ page once the typical questions become clear.
Look very carefully and consider all your alternatives, but don't dismiss this scheme quickly! Applications will only be taken via the website, from 2nd December 2002, and I understand that courses begin in February 2003.
Lastly (having read through this post!) I should emphasise that I have no connection with CTC-McAlpine, EasyJet, JMC or any other involved organisation!!
Edit for more age info
Ok. a little more info on the age thing: EZ: 19 to less than 26 at application; JMC: 19 to less than 27 at application; direct applicants to CTC-McAlpine: 19 to less than 26 at application. There may be scope for flexibility as other airlines get on board.
Firstly, this scheme is not limited to EasyJet, though they are the launch customer for it. EZ will be putting 24 cadets into the course in 2003, JMC will be putting 4 in. There are 6 places a month available, ie 72 a year, at present. While other airlines are likely to get involved, there are individual places available right now for those who are prepared to take the calculated risk that they could find themselves graduating with no job. In that case, I understand that CTC-McAlpine would continue to 'hold-pool' you until you were placed with an employer - and you would not be faced with instantly repaying your loan on graduation.
For those who haven't checked out the CTC-McAlpine website (www.ctc-mcalpine.com), this scheme is rather different from any other training set up. Firstly, the airlines are the customers, not the students. The airline contracts with CTC-McAlpine for a given number of line-ready pilots at a pre-defined cost (which is a lot more than your bond!), and to be delivered at a pre-defined date. Those airlines can either use their own recruiting system, or can rely on CTC-McAlpine's selection procedure. That means that this scheme can absorb students who are not sponsored at entry, but may become so during their training.
Of course, no student is guaranteed employment on graduation - as the BA Cadets discovered last year - but the nature of this course is such that it's unlikely that any graduate would remain unemployed for long, given reasonable market conditions. By 'the nature of this course' I mean that the course has apparently been developed to more closely reflect the demands of current civil airline practice right from Day 1 - and it goes right to the end of line training on type. I don't want to start an argument with the staffs of BAe or OAT, however, so I can't comment on whether the content of the course is better or worse than anyone else's.
Anyone can apply for the course, but older and more experienced candidates are probably less likely to be selected. That doesn't mean that you can't apply, nor that you won't be selected, however! I understand that there are procedures in place to adapt the course for successful candidates who have some experience. For those applying for the EZ scheme, the age limit on application is 25 years, 11 months, 30 days. For JMC, it is a year older. For non-airline-sponsored students, there is no official age limit, I gather; each candidate would be assessed on their merits. Bear in mind that CTC-McAlpine will have to sell you to an airline before you graduate, and you'll understand why I believe that older candidates are less likely to be selected. i may be wrong, however.
I've suggested that CTC-McAlpine open a questions e-mail link on their website, and that they then post a FAQ page once the typical questions become clear.
Look very carefully and consider all your alternatives, but don't dismiss this scheme quickly! Applications will only be taken via the website, from 2nd December 2002, and I understand that courses begin in February 2003.
Lastly (having read through this post!) I should emphasise that I have no connection with CTC-McAlpine, EasyJet, JMC or any other involved organisation!!
Edit for more age info
Ok. a little more info on the age thing: EZ: 19 to less than 26 at application; JMC: 19 to less than 27 at application; direct applicants to CTC-McAlpine: 19 to less than 26 at application. There may be scope for flexibility as other airlines get on board.
Last edited by scroggs; 19th Nov 2002 at 17:40.
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sorry but does anyone know when the deadline is, or is it simply ongoing.
cheers
PH
Ps scroggs that was a very clear and comprhensive account of the scheme. thanks
I guess thats what PPrune is all about, otherwise i think most people wouldnt even hear about these schemes.
cheers
PH
Ps scroggs that was a very clear and comprhensive account of the scheme. thanks
I guess thats what PPrune is all about, otherwise i think most people wouldnt even hear about these schemes.
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Yet again it has been left to the moderators to bring some sanity to a thread. WWW has been fairly accurate in his assessment of the industry post911, and i for one am glad that i followed his (and others) advice about starting training. Not being presumptious either as i realise these positions will be hot property, but it's the news that most of us have been waiting for for just over a year now - at least there is some hope now.
Fairplay to easyjet for sticking their neck out too, especially given the situation in Iraq. Things can change quickly though as we all know too well!
Fairplay to easyjet for sticking their neck out too, especially given the situation in Iraq. Things can change quickly though as we all know too well!
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This is an interesting topic which I read only because I was sponsored myself. On first reading I thought is was basically a joke. How on earth would apply for this?
Having read some sensible replies I rememeber when I in the same situation a few years back and I would have been on the phone the second I saw it! Getting into flying is never easy and I have never regretted my decision (I moan occasionally like every pilot) but I would not change it for the world and if you really want to be a pilot then go for it, you won't regret it.
The scheme could be better (and easy have really tried to sell it!) but if you get it you will be an F/O and then Capt of a major airline having the time of your life (and having no life which you have to accept). It will be majorly subscribed I'm sure so good luck to you all.
Having read some sensible replies I rememeber when I in the same situation a few years back and I would have been on the phone the second I saw it! Getting into flying is never easy and I have never regretted my decision (I moan occasionally like every pilot) but I would not change it for the world and if you really want to be a pilot then go for it, you won't regret it.
The scheme could be better (and easy have really tried to sell it!) but if you get it you will be an F/O and then Capt of a major airline having the time of your life (and having no life which you have to accept). It will be majorly subscribed I'm sure so good luck to you all.
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Can't find a way of contacting easy directly, so thought I'd ask here... Does anyone know whether a 'flexible' attitude is taken to the age limits (like BA used to). I've just turned 26 
Reckon it's still worth applying?
Reckon it's still worth applying?
From what I gather the actual flying is been done in NZ by Simulflight. From the course specs it looks like they have upped the hours considerably over JAA minimums. Total hours up by about a third and multi hours virtually doubled. Big increase in actual solo time as well. Looks like a very comprehensive course thats for sure.
Groundschool to be done by Bristol methinks.... Alex! Care to confirm or deny?
Cheers
WWW
Groundschool to be done by Bristol methinks.... Alex! Care to confirm or deny?
Cheers
WWW
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Jetset
I believe that EZ are unlikely to be flexible about age, but you could always give it a go. Don't forget that this scheme is not limited to EZ, though. JMC are also involved, and their age limit is 26/11/30 at date of application. You can also apply for a place in your own right through CTC-McAlpine. It would be unsponsored to begin with, but they wouldn't take you on if they didn't believe they could place you.
I believe that EZ are unlikely to be flexible about age, but you could always give it a go. Don't forget that this scheme is not limited to EZ, though. JMC are also involved, and their age limit is 26/11/30 at date of application. You can also apply for a place in your own right through CTC-McAlpine. It would be unsponsored to begin with, but they wouldn't take you on if they didn't believe they could place you.
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I've just been reading through easyjet's website and I think it says something about no guarantee for a job.
Though I am not a pessimist, I will approach any 'sponsorship' scheme with caution especially as the current political andfeconomic situation will not guarantee that
It's just my view.
Am I guaranteed a job?
No airline cadet scheme guarantees a job. The commitment we give is that subject to your satisfactory performance in training, and our recruitment plans remaining unchanged, we intend to offer employment to graduating cadets. That is exactly the same conditional offer that any other cadet scheme offers
our recruitment plans remaining unchanged
Worrying as it sounds, this could be the only way in.
Now if I had 25K to invest in a TR, provided I was to be offered a job at the end of it, I'd do so. I'm interested, but is my interest of any interest to the low costies (sorry)?
Point I'm trying to make is that both Easy and Ryan both want all applications via the web. That's fine, but I see no provision for my interest, or is that secondary to getting an interview?
Now if I had 25K to invest in a TR, provided I was to be offered a job at the end of it, I'd do so. I'm interested, but is my interest of any interest to the low costies (sorry)?
Point I'm trying to make is that both Easy and Ryan both want all applications via the web. That's fine, but I see no provision for my interest, or is that secondary to getting an interview?
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scroggs,
Thanks for the very comprehensive 'inside' information. Just one question- do you know if the course for successfully selected sponsered candidates starts in February for everyone, or are there different started dates later on in the year?
andy
Thanks for the very comprehensive 'inside' information. Just one question- do you know if the course for successfully selected sponsered candidates starts in February for everyone, or are there different started dates later on in the year?
andy
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Andy
As there are only 6 places per course, it's obvious that EZ's students will be staggered through the year. I don't know whether it's planned that EZ will take four courses, or whether their students will fit in as and when.
pholooh and Splat, sorry, my irony detector has gone berserk. Your points are...?
As there are only 6 places per course, it's obvious that EZ's students will be staggered through the year. I don't know whether it's planned that EZ will take four courses, or whether their students will fit in as and when.
pholooh and Splat, sorry, my irony detector has gone berserk. Your points are...?
scroggs
I'm fortunate enough to be able to fund my own rating, but would that fact be of shall I say 'extra' interest to anyone in the current climate?
S
btw, I'm not paying for a TR without a sniff of a job at the end.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to fund my own rating, but would that fact be of shall I say 'extra' interest to anyone in the current climate?
S
btw, I'm not paying for a TR without a sniff of a job at the end.
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Splat,
I still don't fully understand your point. The EZ/JMC scheme gives much more than a 'sniff' of a job at the end of it. No employer will guarantee a job until you have successfully completed all their training and, even then, outside factors can and do screw it up occasionally.
For those with middling hours (500-1500) and no type rating, the EZ type-rating scheme offers an excellent answer. Yes, you pay for the rating (after a fashion) - but only after you've got the job. Remember, the rating you're getting is easyJet's own type and line training package. Notwithstanding their preference for type-rated direct entrants, they won't give credit for your externally-acquired rating unless it's accompanied by reasonable hours on type. In other words, you must have completed training to line release with a reputable operator. That costs serious money.
For others concerned about the age limits with regard to the ab-initio training scheme, please see the edit to my long post above.
I still don't fully understand your point. The EZ/JMC scheme gives much more than a 'sniff' of a job at the end of it. No employer will guarantee a job until you have successfully completed all their training and, even then, outside factors can and do screw it up occasionally.
For those with middling hours (500-1500) and no type rating, the EZ type-rating scheme offers an excellent answer. Yes, you pay for the rating (after a fashion) - but only after you've got the job. Remember, the rating you're getting is easyJet's own type and line training package. Notwithstanding their preference for type-rated direct entrants, they won't give credit for your externally-acquired rating unless it's accompanied by reasonable hours on type. In other words, you must have completed training to line release with a reputable operator. That costs serious money.
For others concerned about the age limits with regard to the ab-initio training scheme, please see the edit to my long post above.
scroggs,
I'm not advocating paying for a rating, but I'm more than happy to if there is a job at the end of it, and it's been my belief that this was the way the industry was heading. I guess you've sort of answered my original query.
S
I'm not advocating paying for a rating, but I'm more than happy to if there is a job at the end of it, and it's been my belief that this was the way the industry was heading. I guess you've sort of answered my original query.
S
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Age again
Scroggs,
Thanks for all of the information.
I've had a look on the JMC and CTC-McAlpine websites and can't find anything about the 26 when you apply thing. The CTC-McAlpine website states that the maximum age is 25 on application. I am currently 26 and a half, can you through any additional light on the subject?
If I am too old for the full sponsorship does the same age restriction apply to the type rating sponsorship with easyjet (thinking a year or so down the line?)
Thanks,
Waypoint 11
WWW,
I have sent you a couple of private messages but I'm not sure if they are getting through to you, please can you advise.
Thanks.
Thanks for all of the information.
I've had a look on the JMC and CTC-McAlpine websites and can't find anything about the 26 when you apply thing. The CTC-McAlpine website states that the maximum age is 25 on application. I am currently 26 and a half, can you through any additional light on the subject?
If I am too old for the full sponsorship does the same age restriction apply to the type rating sponsorship with easyjet (thinking a year or so down the line?)
Thanks,
Waypoint 11
WWW,
I have sent you a couple of private messages but I'm not sure if they are getting through to you, please can you advise.
Thanks.
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Waypoint
The wording on the CTC-McAlpine site has changed and is now much clearer. From that I would read that you are not eligible. However, the rules for the JMC sponsorship have clearly not been published yet. I'd guess Scroggs is in the know and when they are published (assuming JMC do intend to tell us the criteria) you'll find the age range is a year older & you'll be eligible for JMC.
As there are no age limits published on the EJ site for the sponsored type rating, I'd guess that there are none, but Scroggs will know better.
The wording on the CTC-McAlpine site has changed and is now much clearer. From that I would read that you are not eligible. However, the rules for the JMC sponsorship have clearly not been published yet. I'd guess Scroggs is in the know and when they are published (assuming JMC do intend to tell us the criteria) you'll find the age range is a year older & you'll be eligible for JMC.
As there are no age limits published on the EJ site for the sponsored type rating, I'd guess that there are none, but Scroggs will know better.