easy being a bit naughty
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: UK
Sluts to the system means exactly what you have said...do anything and everything required by THEM. I used the term slut becasue of a suggestion that i was a whore...or something!
With such a rapid expansion rate as we are seeing at the moment this feeds down through the levels of managemnt and ends up with pilots being "messed around" eg, management deciding to not expand Belfast at the moment because of business reasoning and so you have to go elsewhere. It is part of LCC operation and should be expected and it requires you to be persistant, patient, pro-active, imaginative, professional, flexible, available. you should fit in nicely!
Cat firmly amongst the pidgeons I hope.
With such a rapid expansion rate as we are seeing at the moment this feeds down through the levels of managemnt and ends up with pilots being "messed around" eg, management deciding to not expand Belfast at the moment because of business reasoning and so you have to go elsewhere. It is part of LCC operation and should be expected and it requires you to be persistant, patient, pro-active, imaginative, professional, flexible, available. you should fit in nicely!
Cat firmly amongst the pidgeons I hope.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Joined: Feb 1997
Posts: 4,910
Likes: 184
From: Duit On Mon Dei
The low cost model only works if there is good expansion. If for some reason it slows down then your command that you are hoping for to get ahead financially is gone. Possibly the company as well.
Never ever sell yourself short. Decent chief pilots will see you for what you are. If you can't respect your qualifications, why should any one else?
We have all been there. Amex and Firestorm have shifted countries several times to get experience. I would look very closely at what they are saying. I have shifted countries so I have a better chance at flying a jet. I have done practically every thing else.
Never ever sell yourself short. Decent chief pilots will see you for what you are. If you can't respect your qualifications, why should any one else?
We have all been there. Amex and Firestorm have shifted countries several times to get experience. I would look very closely at what they are saying. I have shifted countries so I have a better chance at flying a jet. I have done practically every thing else.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: East Mids, UK
i agree with tailscrape:
there was a time when i would go anywhere and fly anything:not anymore:we don't live to fly we fly to live !!
OK I will compromise one of the big three to get back to flying - pay, type or base but not all three at once.
I am not an aspiring hollywood starlet and I will not bend over for anyone.......
there was a time when i would go anywhere and fly anything:not anymore:we don't live to fly we fly to live !!
OK I will compromise one of the big three to get back to flying - pay, type or base but not all three at once.
I am not an aspiring hollywood starlet and I will not bend over for anyone.......
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: England
Stay Cool!
Prob 30 you need to calm down. I understand where you are coming from but see the other side too. Also, anyone with even a JAR PPL has some experience which will however little, go some way to preparing you for commercial flying.
I hold an IMC rating and whilst it is inferior to the IR there are similar skills used, such as ILS landing, SRA's and vectors. So dont tell me they arent used in commercial flying.
Personally I agree with tailscrape. I reckon when you are training you are chomping at the bit to fly for a living, it is your dream etc...... so when someone moans about not being told where they will be based it gets your goat.!! But one day that will be you unless you have a bit of respect for your skills and professionalism. Everyone moans about their job!! Its a fact of life!!
Flying anyone, whether it is a warrior or a 747-400 carries immense responsibility. If you are being paid (professional) then you should be treated with respect or you'll get any old goat doing it for nuts... and then standards go and safety goes too. Why bother paying thousands of pounds to train if the pay and conditions are poor? Sure its fun and we all love it which is why we would all love to be paid for something we find fun!!
I hold an IMC rating and whilst it is inferior to the IR there are similar skills used, such as ILS landing, SRA's and vectors. So dont tell me they arent used in commercial flying.
Personally I agree with tailscrape. I reckon when you are training you are chomping at the bit to fly for a living, it is your dream etc...... so when someone moans about not being told where they will be based it gets your goat.!! But one day that will be you unless you have a bit of respect for your skills and professionalism. Everyone moans about their job!! Its a fact of life!!
Flying anyone, whether it is a warrior or a 747-400 carries immense responsibility. If you are being paid (professional) then you should be treated with respect or you'll get any old goat doing it for nuts... and then standards go and safety goes too. Why bother paying thousands of pounds to train if the pay and conditions are poor? Sure its fun and we all love it which is why we would all love to be paid for something we find fun!!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: UK
My comments are directed towords low houred young inexperienced pilots looking for their first job. i have never mentioned anything about further than 3 years away. What I said was that in 3 years time you will be ready for a command and on £60K. It means that the £20K you invested to start with is allowing you to earn £60K. A fair deal.
I agree you cant do this forever, but the point is if you are inexperienced dont jump up and down complaining how hard it is...go along with it or take the long route of FI, turboprop etc.
I agree you cant do this forever, but the point is if you are inexperienced dont jump up and down complaining how hard it is...go along with it or take the long route of FI, turboprop etc.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: DXB
There are no guarantees that in 3 years you will be in a command and on £60k. As has been said before, it all depends on expansion.
As for the airlines that treat their pilots badly: these guys will remember that when the market picks up and will be more than happy to show 2 fingers to their employers
As for the airlines that treat their pilots badly: these guys will remember that when the market picks up and will be more than happy to show 2 fingers to their employers
Guest
Posts: n/a
Prob30
This thread is about EZjet and since they don't employ low houred guys (ok apart from a very few CTC guys), you are telling experienced pilots they should get on with it and accept broken promises.
Believe me, broken promises are very common in this industry (and we are getting used to it) but when they come two weeks before your start date, it ain't looking good for your long term plans.
This thread is about EZjet and since they don't employ low houred guys (ok apart from a very few CTC guys), you are telling experienced pilots they should get on with it and accept broken promises.
Believe me, broken promises are very common in this industry (and we are getting used to it) but when they come two weeks before your start date, it ain't looking good for your long term plans.
Terrier
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: moonbase alpha
prob30,
You just do not understand.
"Stelios" does not, and most likely will not ever give you a job with 200 hours.
He is turning down people with 1000's of hours AND TYPE RATINGS!
So, your argument is pointless.
Yo are possibly near the bottom of pile, and that is not a nice place to be.
However, imagine this:
You work hard, instruct, crop spray, do surveys, air taxi.....whatever.
Then you get the call from eJ after you have done all that AND worked for a turboprop regional for 3 years.
You are told you will be based at LGW, then 3 weeks later, after you have rented a house, you are told you will be in EDI...... annoying isn't it?
All that hard work to be treated like a prat!
So, what you need to do is to strive for the best possible terms and conditions from day ONE..... otherwise if you get to the stage when eJ will give you a job, you may find yourself regretting your appalling low standards of living conditions....
Also, if a QUALIFIED and EXPERIENCED airline pilot wishes to grumble, you should let them. You may learn something of worth.
Just accept that things are different as a wannabee and a been there seen it done it pilot........ one day you will believe me I am sure!
You just do not understand.
"Stelios" does not, and most likely will not ever give you a job with 200 hours.
He is turning down people with 1000's of hours AND TYPE RATINGS!
So, your argument is pointless.
Yo are possibly near the bottom of pile, and that is not a nice place to be.
However, imagine this:
You work hard, instruct, crop spray, do surveys, air taxi.....whatever.
Then you get the call from eJ after you have done all that AND worked for a turboprop regional for 3 years.
You are told you will be based at LGW, then 3 weeks later, after you have rented a house, you are told you will be in EDI...... annoying isn't it?
All that hard work to be treated like a prat!
So, what you need to do is to strive for the best possible terms and conditions from day ONE..... otherwise if you get to the stage when eJ will give you a job, you may find yourself regretting your appalling low standards of living conditions....
Also, if a QUALIFIED and EXPERIENCED airline pilot wishes to grumble, you should let them. You may learn something of worth.
Just accept that things are different as a wannabee and a been there seen it done it pilot........ one day you will believe me I am sure!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 400
Likes: 11
From: Lost
Prob 30 - I fully symapthise but the deal is there are a lot of us who are beyond the 'do anything for a jet job' stage (prehaps I should have put this in the T&E thread - soz Scroggs).
Anyway Omoko Joe hit the nail on the head. Guys with experience who can afford to be picky about who they whinge about are being let down at the last minute by easyJet. This is going to colour how other pilots view moving jet jobs and easy might find themselves struggling to fill the 1000 seats they need filled by 2004.
Blardy serves 'em right for failing me!
Anyway Omoko Joe hit the nail on the head. Guys with experience who can afford to be picky about who they whinge about are being let down at the last minute by easyJet. This is going to colour how other pilots view moving jet jobs and easy might find themselves struggling to fill the 1000 seats they need filled by 2004.
Blardy serves 'em right for failing me!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: UK
Things are bad at the moment for us wannabee's. Want a job of any sort getting paid to fly - you probably will have to make some sort of sacrifice. If you dont want to, the person behind you will.
However, the pickings are rich for the airlines still. Plenty of type rated people with lots of hours to choose from. But when the industry turnsaround and the major's start to expand again I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of people move out of the LCC's and back to the flag carriers. The seemingly endless supply of "type rated 737" pilots will dry up at some point - it cannot be a bottomless pit.
Then things will start to look up for us.
However, the pickings are rich for the airlines still. Plenty of type rated people with lots of hours to choose from. But when the industry turnsaround and the major's start to expand again I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of people move out of the LCC's and back to the flag carriers. The seemingly endless supply of "type rated 737" pilots will dry up at some point - it cannot be a bottomless pit.
Then things will start to look up for us.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: England
Iagree
I reckon everyone has a fair point.
I do think EZ will suffer long term though:-
Despite what people think there are not loads of ATPL pilots knocking around and when the market does pick up alot of the LCC pilots will clear off if conditions are still not desriable for them.
What will companies like EZ do?? Lower their standards? Accept lower hours? Who knows. But I hear Prob 30 saying "No problem I will work for them" Yet BMI might be looking too and offer better conditions so Prob 30 goes there...
What will most likely occur is a change in working conditions with a change in the amrket though.
EZ must have terrible management. I manage people and I cant believe they are so disorganised. I am not even thinking about EZ as an employer at the moment for all sorts of reasons. The main one is they wont employ me anyway. Oh well!! Off to Africa I go.
I do think EZ will suffer long term though:-
Despite what people think there are not loads of ATPL pilots knocking around and when the market does pick up alot of the LCC pilots will clear off if conditions are still not desriable for them.
What will companies like EZ do?? Lower their standards? Accept lower hours? Who knows. But I hear Prob 30 saying "No problem I will work for them" Yet BMI might be looking too and offer better conditions so Prob 30 goes there...
What will most likely occur is a change in working conditions with a change in the amrket though.
EZ must have terrible management. I manage people and I cant believe they are so disorganised. I am not even thinking about EZ as an employer at the moment for all sorts of reasons. The main one is they wont employ me anyway. Oh well!! Off to Africa I go.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Saaaaaaffffhampton
All points are vaild
Lots of good points on this subject, if you read back and look at the main points raised thoug , mine included, they are:
1. As a potential wannabee, we would within reason go most places, for a good first job. Belfast included for a jet job, unlikely as it maybe
2. The management is important, never suggested otherwise, always helps and then you are always willing to help them.
3. Knowing these situations arise, take stock and ask do you want to work for them, do you need to buy another house, move, rent just yet?
4. No one has consisdered anyone else unprofessional on here, and dont intend to start now, i having completed flight training, I know how much hard work and dedication it takes to get there.
5. Everyone, not just pilots, deserve the professional attitude of there professions and as said the more respect you have the more you are likely to give in return.
6. I understand people not wanting to upsticks, they shouldnt , i said previously, it sometimes is not worth the trouble, leaving your current position.
7. And ok, I still would love to fly, not for nothing for an airline , but i would consider the lower end of the market as i believe all wannabees would to get that foothold, like i said i am realistic!!! thats all thats meant by my comments, and flying for free is ok for me at the moment, well if you call it free, you trying hiring a multi aircraft getting 3 - 4 hours every week and pay out of your own money, i dont , so, prostitution is very hard word to use i call it financial vaiability. I dont have £800 a week to spend on flying, do you!!!
And do remember not to take these comments to heart , all people have different views and especially when you are at differing ends of the career scale.
Good comments all round though
p.s. Maybe easy jet should read a human factors book, they of all people should understand the chopping and changing causes
1. As a potential wannabee, we would within reason go most places, for a good first job. Belfast included for a jet job, unlikely as it maybe
2. The management is important, never suggested otherwise, always helps and then you are always willing to help them.
3. Knowing these situations arise, take stock and ask do you want to work for them, do you need to buy another house, move, rent just yet?
4. No one has consisdered anyone else unprofessional on here, and dont intend to start now, i having completed flight training, I know how much hard work and dedication it takes to get there.
5. Everyone, not just pilots, deserve the professional attitude of there professions and as said the more respect you have the more you are likely to give in return.
6. I understand people not wanting to upsticks, they shouldnt , i said previously, it sometimes is not worth the trouble, leaving your current position.
7. And ok, I still would love to fly, not for nothing for an airline , but i would consider the lower end of the market as i believe all wannabees would to get that foothold, like i said i am realistic!!! thats all thats meant by my comments, and flying for free is ok for me at the moment, well if you call it free, you trying hiring a multi aircraft getting 3 - 4 hours every week and pay out of your own money, i dont , so, prostitution is very hard word to use i call it financial vaiability. I dont have £800 a week to spend on flying, do you!!!
And do remember not to take these comments to heart , all people have different views and especially when you are at differing ends of the career scale.
Good comments all round though
p.s. Maybe easy jet should read a human factors book, they of all people should understand the chopping and changing causes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: UK
This a good thread....
i agree with most things tat have been said and have taken them on board. My example who just happend to be Ezy was based on new graduate with <300 hours, in the current market place looking for his first job. Bare that in mind and i dont beleive i am far off the mark.
Things will change and you can be choosy...what i am saying is now, you cant.
what are your thoughts on the current ATPL syllabus...?
i agree with most things tat have been said and have taken them on board. My example who just happend to be Ezy was based on new graduate with <300 hours, in the current market place looking for his first job. Bare that in mind and i dont beleive i am far off the mark.
Things will change and you can be choosy...what i am saying is now, you cant.
what are your thoughts on the current ATPL syllabus...?
