who is a safe company to train with now?
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Essex England
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who is a safe company to train with now?
I have hopefully just passed the class1 medical (awaiting the certificate) and had PPSC as my number 1 choice. Thankfully I never parted with any cash.
However I am now just a little concerned over the news of Four Forces and PPSC.
So who can be trusted NOT to go bust whilst doing a distance learning course?
Is this the start of a trend and if so what is the cause?
PPSC was highly reccommended to me. I have considered Atlantic flight training and Bristol as alternatives but how sound are they in the current market, bearing in mind the distance learning course is 42 weeks long at the shortist route!
I appear to have picked a bad time to embark on this potential career change.
Any views on this would be much appreciated.
I have read the other forums but no-one seems to have answered the question of who might be the soundest bet if starting from scratch.
Sympathies to all those who have been bitten by all this.......
Cheers
However I am now just a little concerned over the news of Four Forces and PPSC.
So who can be trusted NOT to go bust whilst doing a distance learning course?
Is this the start of a trend and if so what is the cause?
PPSC was highly reccommended to me. I have considered Atlantic flight training and Bristol as alternatives but how sound are they in the current market, bearing in mind the distance learning course is 42 weeks long at the shortist route!
I appear to have picked a bad time to embark on this potential career change.
Any views on this would be much appreciated.
I have read the other forums but no-one seems to have answered the question of who might be the soundest bet if starting from scratch.
Sympathies to all those who have been bitten by all this.......
Cheers
Join Date: Dec 2000
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AFT are part of The Atlantic Group hence are probably a safe bet. Bristol are apparently extremely strong. They're cheap but apparently they run a tight ship.
London Guildhall are a university so they'll also be a good bet.
As for the others, who knows?
London Guildhall are a university so they'll also be a good bet.
As for the others, who knows?
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Visa and mastercard are the safe people to train with because if you pay with a credit card and the company folds you will get your money back !.
I can recomend ATA at coventry as a place to use your credit card.
I can recomend ATA at coventry as a place to use your credit card.
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Just to add to TB's comments,
Pay as late and and as little as possible up front. Try to get away with just a deposit until you start.
Also, get that VISA in shape such that you can use it to pay for the course. You may be able to get something back it it goes belly up.
PS.
London Guilhall would be my choice. When I was there in the late 80's it was run along very un commercial lines, ie not for profit. Things may have changed since then mind you. It was also a good place, easily on a par with PPSC with whome I was fortunate enough to finish with before they folded.
Pay as late and and as little as possible up front. Try to get away with just a deposit until you start.
Also, get that VISA in shape such that you can use it to pay for the course. You may be able to get something back it it goes belly up.
PS.
London Guilhall would be my choice. When I was there in the late 80's it was run along very un commercial lines, ie not for profit. Things may have changed since then mind you. It was also a good place, easily on a par with PPSC with whome I was fortunate enough to finish with before they folded.
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Agree with Token Bird and P_S. London Guildhall are a good outfit and definitely not one to go broke, they're a massive great university and aviation is only a tiny part of what they do.
Bristol are the best ground school in the country and I can't see them going broke, if only because of their reputation and the loyalty they attract here on PPRuNe.
I can't say anything about OATS or Cabair because I haven't seen their material but I would be very surprised if either of them were to vanish off the scene in the near future - after all, the airlines are still sending their cadets there, I presume that sponsoring airlines have access to the flying school accounts and would run a mile if they looked at all dodgey?
Bristol are the best ground school in the country and I can't see them going broke, if only because of their reputation and the loyalty they attract here on PPRuNe.
I can't say anything about OATS or Cabair because I haven't seen their material but I would be very surprised if either of them were to vanish off the scene in the near future - after all, the airlines are still sending their cadets there, I presume that sponsoring airlines have access to the flying school accounts and would run a mile if they looked at all dodgey?
Join Date: May 2001
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As a current business owner. I have to credit check customers on a regular basis, having had two go down on me in the past year with a loss of £ 3,000.
Anyone can access the companies house website and obtain certain free information on any 'Limited' company in UK. Such as date they started, when accounts are due and if any are 'overdue' which can usually mean a problem. It will also list any registered mortgage (bank debenture) against the companies assets. Indicating they have borrowed a reasonable sum of money from a bank.
For an extra £5 you can also order a copy of the latest filed accounts and the annual return showing who owns the company and director home addresses, incase you wish to knock on the door for a 'friendly chat'.
Other than that. This forum should be able to provide some clues about the stability of a particular group. Do they own the aircraft or buildings, or are they leased.
What does the local fuel company say about their payment history. Get the idea..
ch web site: companieshouse.co.uk go to the free information section.
My invetigations led me away from two of the current FTO's. Yes one was 4 forces but I won't name the other. (not Scabair, OATS or SFT).
Anyone can access the companies house website and obtain certain free information on any 'Limited' company in UK. Such as date they started, when accounts are due and if any are 'overdue' which can usually mean a problem. It will also list any registered mortgage (bank debenture) against the companies assets. Indicating they have borrowed a reasonable sum of money from a bank.
For an extra £5 you can also order a copy of the latest filed accounts and the annual return showing who owns the company and director home addresses, incase you wish to knock on the door for a 'friendly chat'.
Other than that. This forum should be able to provide some clues about the stability of a particular group. Do they own the aircraft or buildings, or are they leased.
What does the local fuel company say about their payment history. Get the idea..
ch web site: companieshouse.co.uk go to the free information section.
My invetigations led me away from two of the current FTO's. Yes one was 4 forces but I won't name the other. (not Scabair, OATS or SFT).
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Join Date: Sep 2000
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Thanks for the replies,
I have not considered the Guildhall course because I presumed they would not do the latest study material such as the computer based interactive material PPSC were using.
Bristol and AFT are possibles. But the fact that AFT were/are doing a 'special offer' on the price worried me somewhat because it leaves you wondering why! Have they a lack of students and are struggling, or have they a poor success rate?
I suppose I am going to have to plump for one of them soon. I think I will jump in a plane and take a closer look at the larger organisations.
Cheers
I have not considered the Guildhall course because I presumed they would not do the latest study material such as the computer based interactive material PPSC were using.
Bristol and AFT are possibles. But the fact that AFT were/are doing a 'special offer' on the price worried me somewhat because it leaves you wondering why! Have they a lack of students and are struggling, or have they a poor success rate?
I suppose I am going to have to plump for one of them soon. I think I will jump in a plane and take a closer look at the larger organisations.
Cheers
Join Date: May 2001
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Yes they are a Uk FTO.
My main point of concern having talked to them and looked into their affairs.
Was the general 'pie in the sky dreams' they were trying to lay on me. Will their mystery backers, high hopes for expansion and general line aimed at wet behind the ear virgins of' we are only in this to help you, not make a huge profit..'
Mainly because these little people get hooked with the sales pitch and are shown how easy it is to get a job and borrow the funds to do it.
Of course these borrowed funds. In the form of career developments loans of full blown bank loans are paid directly to the FTO in a lump sum.
Great if you need the cash flow to prop things up while you gather new students.
If the numbers work out it could work. If you don't get enough saps through the door you walk away from your Limited company liability and leave little boys and girls in tears.....
But don't let all these happenings scare you all off folks. Follow your dreams.
I am giving up a £ 30k + a year salary to train for a year without pay in the hope of getting that first job on £ 15-20k PA. We all know why. Our destiny is at FL350
My main point of concern having talked to them and looked into their affairs.
Was the general 'pie in the sky dreams' they were trying to lay on me. Will their mystery backers, high hopes for expansion and general line aimed at wet behind the ear virgins of' we are only in this to help you, not make a huge profit..'
Mainly because these little people get hooked with the sales pitch and are shown how easy it is to get a job and borrow the funds to do it.
Of course these borrowed funds. In the form of career developments loans of full blown bank loans are paid directly to the FTO in a lump sum.
Great if you need the cash flow to prop things up while you gather new students.
If the numbers work out it could work. If you don't get enough saps through the door you walk away from your Limited company liability and leave little boys and girls in tears.....
But don't let all these happenings scare you all off folks. Follow your dreams.
I am giving up a £ 30k + a year salary to train for a year without pay in the hope of getting that first job on £ 15-20k PA. We all know why. Our destiny is at FL350
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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If the firm you are planning to train with are a Limited company you can always check their profit and loss statements through Companies House. Get someone to check these accounts out if you want to be really thorough.
VFE.
VFE.
Join Date: May 1999
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Unfortunately the accounts held at companies house for small companies only show the balance sheet and the information is likely to be a year out of date, a lot can happen in a year. The link is http://www.companieshouse.co.uk and it costs £4 or £5 for the info.
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: Alex Whittingham ]
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: Alex Whittingham ]
