Job Hunting
Join Date: May 2001
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TDL you are right about nepotism
Also, investing in a JAR ATPL Frozen is throwing 50k and 2-3 years down the bin since there are no jobs at the moment. There are hundreds of jar atpls waiting for a job. I heard that the situation is really not good, some experienced captains (1000s of jet hours) have no luck with some outfits (like those advertising on this site !). The choice is yours.
Lets hope the market improves but i doubt it, leading european economies like UK and Germany are officially in recession (read the economist)
Also, investing in a JAR ATPL Frozen is throwing 50k and 2-3 years down the bin since there are no jobs at the moment. There are hundreds of jar atpls waiting for a job. I heard that the situation is really not good, some experienced captains (1000s of jet hours) have no luck with some outfits (like those advertising on this site !). The choice is yours.
Lets hope the market improves but i doubt it, leading european economies like UK and Germany are officially in recession (read the economist)
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Don't read too much into what piperindian has to say about training and getting jobs. He seems to think that this must be a bad time to be looking for a pilot job because he has failed to secure employment.
I responded in another thread stating all the people I new personally who had got jobs during the same period that he has been looking, but he still wants to display his bitterness on this forum. The fact remains that the current market has not been better for over a decade and those who are willing to keep pushing will secure employment. It all comes down to determination and hours. Low hours pilots are finding difficulty, but that will always be the case whilst the schools are churning them out as fast as you can say 'ATPL', the thing to remember is that you must enhance yourself once qualified and not just sit back blasting the same CV each month in the hope that a jet operator is going to snap you up.
Good luck
PP
I responded in another thread stating all the people I new personally who had got jobs during the same period that he has been looking, but he still wants to display his bitterness on this forum. The fact remains that the current market has not been better for over a decade and those who are willing to keep pushing will secure employment. It all comes down to determination and hours. Low hours pilots are finding difficulty, but that will always be the case whilst the schools are churning them out as fast as you can say 'ATPL', the thing to remember is that you must enhance yourself once qualified and not just sit back blasting the same CV each month in the hope that a jet operator is going to snap you up.
Good luck
PP
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Piper Indian,
I'm in the industry - you're deeply disappointed at being outside of it at the moment.
I hope for your sake that the underlying resentment of all your posts hasn't made it into your CV's and covering letters.
Here are the facts: The airline training system is actually seizing up. Demand is so high and so many are going through the various companies' courses that they're having to delay people. It is groaning and creaking at the seams to try and satisfy demand.
Prime demand is for those already experienced and working commercially. The bootstrap effect is dragging in those with no commercial experience.
It's never comfortable being outside looking in but that's the truth from the inside.
Touching on a couple of points from TDL now:
Nepotism? Hiring is too huge across such a large number of companies for that to have any creedance unless someone has rapidly established an amazing reputation as a plonker of the first water.
Next: Investment houses: Here's the deal - buy a Barrat Homes ATPL model for around 50 grand. Initial return is perhaps 20 - 25 thou per year. Over about ten years or so return on the investment increases to 60 thousand plus per year. Compounds nicely doesn't it??? Makes the income from any single house look silly.
It's fine to be wary but as someone who obviously looks for a good investment you seem, in your writing at least, to be missing the wood for three rental trees.
Rob
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
I'm in the industry - you're deeply disappointed at being outside of it at the moment.
I hope for your sake that the underlying resentment of all your posts hasn't made it into your CV's and covering letters.
Here are the facts: The airline training system is actually seizing up. Demand is so high and so many are going through the various companies' courses that they're having to delay people. It is groaning and creaking at the seams to try and satisfy demand.
Prime demand is for those already experienced and working commercially. The bootstrap effect is dragging in those with no commercial experience.
It's never comfortable being outside looking in but that's the truth from the inside.
Touching on a couple of points from TDL now:
Nepotism? Hiring is too huge across such a large number of companies for that to have any creedance unless someone has rapidly established an amazing reputation as a plonker of the first water.
Next: Investment houses: Here's the deal - buy a Barrat Homes ATPL model for around 50 grand. Initial return is perhaps 20 - 25 thou per year. Over about ten years or so return on the investment increases to 60 thousand plus per year. Compounds nicely doesn't it??? Makes the income from any single house look silly.
It's fine to be wary but as someone who obviously looks for a good investment you seem, in your writing at least, to be missing the wood for three rental trees.
Rob
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
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TDL
Nepotism (For those who aren't sure)
n favouritism shown to relatives or close friends by those with power.
Perhaps you'd like to give some evidence for this? Do you seriously think an industry as large as UK Aviation plc could exist on such a flimsy basis? Oh, we all know someone who's a pilot because their daddy was one (mine was), but that doesn't mean someone gave them the job. We all have to pass all the training and selection. Did you get your military commission through nepotism? I bet there are lots of mil wannabes who suspect that you (and me, and many others) did, but you know it's not true, nor could it be with the numbers and standards involved.
Is it a case of 'it's not what, but who you know'? Well, yes, to a degree - but it's actually 'what AND who you know' as far as it goes. But that will come later in your career when you have a track record and people may base their recruiting decisions upon it - as in any industry. As a raw recruit you are unknown to the industry (as you were to the military) and your employment or otherwise will depend on how well qualified you are, and how well you impress the interviewers with your CV and, later, performance at interview.
Inevitably there are some stories doing the rounds about how so-and-so got the job because 'his daddy knew the chief pilot'. They're usually apocryphal, and can rarely be substantiated. They also exist in every field of endeavour. Ignore them, they only poison your thoughts - see PiperIndian for evidence of this!
As Rob says above, the compounded return on your £50K investment is potentially huge, but 'the value of any investment can go down as well as increase', as you know. This one, however, you can influence hugely with your attitude and determination. Sounds to me that yours is lacking, and that will come through at interview. I should stick with property management! Or is that irreponsible, PI? I know it's provocative - it's meant to be
Nepotism (For those who aren't sure)
n favouritism shown to relatives or close friends by those with power.
Perhaps you'd like to give some evidence for this? Do you seriously think an industry as large as UK Aviation plc could exist on such a flimsy basis? Oh, we all know someone who's a pilot because their daddy was one (mine was), but that doesn't mean someone gave them the job. We all have to pass all the training and selection. Did you get your military commission through nepotism? I bet there are lots of mil wannabes who suspect that you (and me, and many others) did, but you know it's not true, nor could it be with the numbers and standards involved.
Is it a case of 'it's not what, but who you know'? Well, yes, to a degree - but it's actually 'what AND who you know' as far as it goes. But that will come later in your career when you have a track record and people may base their recruiting decisions upon it - as in any industry. As a raw recruit you are unknown to the industry (as you were to the military) and your employment or otherwise will depend on how well qualified you are, and how well you impress the interviewers with your CV and, later, performance at interview.
Inevitably there are some stories doing the rounds about how so-and-so got the job because 'his daddy knew the chief pilot'. They're usually apocryphal, and can rarely be substantiated. They also exist in every field of endeavour. Ignore them, they only poison your thoughts - see PiperIndian for evidence of this!
As Rob says above, the compounded return on your £50K investment is potentially huge, but 'the value of any investment can go down as well as increase', as you know. This one, however, you can influence hugely with your attitude and determination. Sounds to me that yours is lacking, and that will come through at interview. I should stick with property management! Or is that irreponsible, PI? I know it's provocative - it's meant to be
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Scoggs – Thanks when I get a chance this evening I will reply in full to your post, I don’t think that you are being quite controversial enough, try some head shots, or even below the belt. Laters!
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Hello TrolleyDollyLover,
Listen to these guys who are responding to your post.
I was formally challenged to put a slick bomb through an upright piano in 1980 at Nordhorn range in Germany. A 30mm round would have been a better bet. I could shoot with an aeroplane, believe you me. None of this counts in the world of civilian flying I assure you. You don't need to watch your six anymore, watch your 12!
Listen to these guys who are responding to your post.
I was formally challenged to put a slick bomb through an upright piano in 1980 at Nordhorn range in Germany. A 30mm round would have been a better bet. I could shoot with an aeroplane, believe you me. None of this counts in the world of civilian flying I assure you. You don't need to watch your six anymore, watch your 12!
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TDL/Piperindian,
If it is true what you say.....Then is there any Senior Training Captains want to adopt me as it would save me finishing the rest of my ATPL`s???
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: Delta Wun-Wun ]
If it is true what you say.....Then is there any Senior Training Captains want to adopt me as it would save me finishing the rest of my ATPL`s???
[ 17 August 2001: Message edited by: Delta Wun-Wun ]
