Job Hunting
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Job Hunting
Hello all.
Totally fed up with the banks and I have no money to continue studying...
I am currently looking for a job in the aviation world while I am studying for my ATPL as the money is quickly drying up.
I do not believe finding a job in the UK will be too difficult however I need something that will get me experience in ops and management.
Hopefully a back door into an airline.
My background is a Commissioned Officer HM Forces. I have no problem in relocating anywhere in the world - sub 30 and not married. Any advice? Or links to people who are recruiting.
For those of youwho may think that this is bad financial planning. I have three properties that are my fall back. They are making too much money for a short term hiccup.
Totally fed up with the banks and I have no money to continue studying...
I am currently looking for a job in the aviation world while I am studying for my ATPL as the money is quickly drying up.
I do not believe finding a job in the UK will be too difficult however I need something that will get me experience in ops and management.
Hopefully a back door into an airline.
My background is a Commissioned Officer HM Forces. I have no problem in relocating anywhere in the world - sub 30 and not married. Any advice? Or links to people who are recruiting.
For those of youwho may think that this is bad financial planning. I have three properties that are my fall back. They are making too much money for a short term hiccup.
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Scroggs
Daft point. hope somebody else out the has done economics.
That is a short term solution. Generally because you can raise capital on a property, you cannot on a bank balance. If you had a buisness, would you sell it?
What happens when you get to the end of the course and there are no jobs or worse a recession?
Daft point. hope somebody else out the has done economics.
That is a short term solution. Generally because you can raise capital on a property, you cannot on a bank balance. If you had a buisness, would you sell it?
What happens when you get to the end of the course and there are no jobs or worse a recession?
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What if? What if? What if?
You asked for good advice and got it!
Get your act together boy.....
You either want a career in aviation or not!
Do you just want someone on this forum to stump up the money for you?????
What next?? "Oh I'm ex-mil so surely I must be exempt from all exams and flying hours"
You asked for good advice and got it!
Get your act together boy.....
You either want a career in aviation or not!
Do you just want someone on this forum to stump up the money for you?????
What next?? "Oh I'm ex-mil so surely I must be exempt from all exams and flying hours"
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Here Here CB!!
Obviously doesnt want it that bad.
TDL - get off your arse and do something about it!
were you an accountant in the military? You dont seem resourceful enough to be a frontline officer............
Obviously doesnt want it that bad.
TDL - get off your arse and do something about it!
were you an accountant in the military? You dont seem resourceful enough to be a frontline officer............
Free Man, Not a Number
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EasyJet (Luton) are recruiting Cabin Crew and (I'm told) the local paper in Luton also sayes that, well rather than repeat the advert "Honeycart operatives are required for the airport"
It might help others TrollyDollyLover if you gave a clue to your skillset. As opposed to your wealth.
It might help others TrollyDollyLover if you gave a clue to your skillset. As opposed to your wealth.
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Thanks for the rebuff, chaps.
My request was for info on jobs in the industry, including OPs, planning, sales etc. Not how to go out and get the hours.
Very few have blagged more free flying than myself.
It is not about getting up off my arse, I even type standing up. Gents if you are going to be rude the don't bother posting. Selling property is a last resort, not a winge.
As for my skills set, I can put a bullet in the back of somebodies head at 300m and name all of the players in PIRA in the 90's. As for now, I want to know what is out there.
If I wanted stooopid replies I would have looked at JB.
You Want It When? Thanks for the info, unfortunately I dont have the legs.
[Edited for ATC to understand)
My request was for info on jobs in the industry, including OPs, planning, sales etc. Not how to go out and get the hours.
Very few have blagged more free flying than myself.
It is not about getting up off my arse, I even type standing up. Gents if you are going to be rude the don't bother posting. Selling property is a last resort, not a winge.
As for my skills set, I can put a bullet in the back of somebodies head at 300m and name all of the players in PIRA in the 90's. As for now, I want to know what is out there.
If I wanted stooopid replies I would have looked at JB.
You Want It When? Thanks for the info, unfortunately I dont have the legs.
[Edited for ATC to understand)
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TDL - just re-read my post, doesn't sound like me at all, must be having a sarcastic off-day!
Can't comment on your legs, but I presume you have looked at the recruitment web sites for all the majors - they normally detail ground jobs. I guess also that there must be an agency that they'd subscribe to for their middle management types.
Ability to hit shot someone in the back of the head at 300m, a fine skill but not directly transferable into a normal approved management structure!
Edit'd cos I forgot to add...
I think the consensus above is that an ATPL is bl**dy hard to get and expensive - given the current mini recession if you want to go down that route you'd better be preapred to sacrifice a lot to achieve it and theat there are very few easy ways or "back-doors".
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: You want it when? ]
Can't comment on your legs, but I presume you have looked at the recruitment web sites for all the majors - they normally detail ground jobs. I guess also that there must be an agency that they'd subscribe to for their middle management types.
Ability to hit shot someone in the back of the head at 300m, a fine skill but not directly transferable into a normal approved management structure!
Edit'd cos I forgot to add...
I think the consensus above is that an ATPL is bl**dy hard to get and expensive - given the current mini recession if you want to go down that route you'd better be preapred to sacrifice a lot to achieve it and theat there are very few easy ways or "back-doors".
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: You want it when? ]
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Scroggs, the advice you give is totally irresponsible. I wouldn't put someone of your maturity in a cockpit. Some guys are heavily into debt because of this ****ing #####
The JAR ATPL is simply a SCAM. Thats it.
Flight schools and airlines are responsible for this mess.
Almost nobody is hiring at the moment.
Try to apply for yourself at various airlines.
The JAR ATPL is simply a SCAM. Thats it.
Flight schools and airlines are responsible for this mess.
Almost nobody is hiring at the moment.
Try to apply for yourself at various airlines.
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PiperIndian
Exactly which part of my advice was irresponsible? And in what way did it justify your deleted expletives? As for my maturity and my suitability for any cockpit, I think you are hardly in a position to judge.
I believe you have some axe to grind against the JAA licensing system? Fine, but what on earth has that to do with TDL's desire to be a commercial pilot? There is only one system available in UK; one doesn't have a choice. It's either take it or leave it. I take it you will be leaving it, and arguing your point in a more appropriate thread, and in a more considered fashion.
TDL
You asked a simple question, and gave limited information. It would seem that you have a choice: either raise the capital required from the assets you have; find a job that pays enough to get you through your licences; or give up. I take it that you are too old for sponsorship, and you've run out of fairy godmothers.
When I said don't waste time, I meant yours, not ours! You need to get on with it. Most decisions have a down side, and you have to bite the bullet - or continue to make your living from property and wish you did something else. What else can I say? It's in your hands.
PS. I do have a business, and if I thought that selling it would lead more quickly to the quality of life that I aspired to, it'd be gone in an instant!
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: scroggs ]
Exactly which part of my advice was irresponsible? And in what way did it justify your deleted expletives? As for my maturity and my suitability for any cockpit, I think you are hardly in a position to judge.
I believe you have some axe to grind against the JAA licensing system? Fine, but what on earth has that to do with TDL's desire to be a commercial pilot? There is only one system available in UK; one doesn't have a choice. It's either take it or leave it. I take it you will be leaving it, and arguing your point in a more appropriate thread, and in a more considered fashion.
TDL
You asked a simple question, and gave limited information. It would seem that you have a choice: either raise the capital required from the assets you have; find a job that pays enough to get you through your licences; or give up. I take it that you are too old for sponsorship, and you've run out of fairy godmothers.
When I said don't waste time, I meant yours, not ours! You need to get on with it. Most decisions have a down side, and you have to bite the bullet - or continue to make your living from property and wish you did something else. What else can I say? It's in your hands.
PS. I do have a business, and if I thought that selling it would lead more quickly to the quality of life that I aspired to, it'd be gone in an instant!
[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: scroggs ]
Get a job with Airtours as cabin crew then apply for their internal flightdeck sponsorship? Hell of a long shot but I've seen it done.
Good luck,
WWW
Good luck,
WWW
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TDL
It sounds like you don't want it enough. It takes everything to pay your way to an ATPL. Everyone I know who has self sponsored has given up everything to fund it, including selling houses, businesses etc etc.
You have got yourself into a position (with three properties) from where you could fund a large amount of that training. You could stay as a 'Rigsby' until you retire and then sell up your property empire, or, you could sell as many as it takes to fund an ATPL and retire after 40 years as an airline pilot, I'm sure you will earn enough to live a descent existence either way, but if you don't get the ATPL you'll never know what it's like to fly professionally.
Scroggs is right, the choice is yours. As for piperindian, well mate if you think nobody is hiring and it would be irresponsible to suggest someone start an ATPL then you must be living in a different marketplace to the rest of us. I see you have 500hrs and have spent 9 months sending 'hundreds' of CV's unsuccessfully. Perhaps you are not putting your energies in the right direction. It is currently the best it has been for years. I personally know people who have got jobs with BMC, British Regional (2 people), Britannia, Air2000 (2 people) and JMC (2 of us), all within this timescale, most of them with less hours than you. My company took on over 50 pilots since August last year and are soon to recruit more. British Regional have been recruiting like made in the same period. Easyjet were training more than 10 a month for the 737. I could go on even more but I have made the point. It is not JAR or the job market that is unfair, it is you who is dissolusioned because you are not prepared to go that bit further to secure a pilot position and you are now sadly looking at someone or something else to blame. Nobody gauranteed anything when you parted with your cash, just like they didn't for the rest of us, but your bitter attitude will fail you the interview, if you ever get one. I see all your 12 postings have been about your negative views re the job market, even calling it 'scandalous' in one post that you can't find a job! You keep calling the job market crap, may I suggest you go back through the 'how many hours and how long to first job' posts and see just how many have been employed during this 'crap' period. 500 hours with 100 multi is nothing in the eyes of the hirers. People do get jobs with less but they are the exception. You need more multi hours and failing that you need at least 1000. It's all down to market forces mate.
So, all the rest of you Wanabees, learn a lesson from piperindian - it is not easy after qualification, but you need to stay focused and try every avenue, then try them again whilst building those hours and then determination will out. Look at the ATP scheme run by CTC (piperindian don't bother as you would not get through their selection process with that attitude) and keep smiling!
Good luck guys and gals.
PP
PS. oh, and by the way TDL I shot at Bisley in both the rifle and gun matches but can't say it's helped with a flying job!
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: Pilot Pete ]
It sounds like you don't want it enough. It takes everything to pay your way to an ATPL. Everyone I know who has self sponsored has given up everything to fund it, including selling houses, businesses etc etc.
You have got yourself into a position (with three properties) from where you could fund a large amount of that training. You could stay as a 'Rigsby' until you retire and then sell up your property empire, or, you could sell as many as it takes to fund an ATPL and retire after 40 years as an airline pilot, I'm sure you will earn enough to live a descent existence either way, but if you don't get the ATPL you'll never know what it's like to fly professionally.
Scroggs is right, the choice is yours. As for piperindian, well mate if you think nobody is hiring and it would be irresponsible to suggest someone start an ATPL then you must be living in a different marketplace to the rest of us. I see you have 500hrs and have spent 9 months sending 'hundreds' of CV's unsuccessfully. Perhaps you are not putting your energies in the right direction. It is currently the best it has been for years. I personally know people who have got jobs with BMC, British Regional (2 people), Britannia, Air2000 (2 people) and JMC (2 of us), all within this timescale, most of them with less hours than you. My company took on over 50 pilots since August last year and are soon to recruit more. British Regional have been recruiting like made in the same period. Easyjet were training more than 10 a month for the 737. I could go on even more but I have made the point. It is not JAR or the job market that is unfair, it is you who is dissolusioned because you are not prepared to go that bit further to secure a pilot position and you are now sadly looking at someone or something else to blame. Nobody gauranteed anything when you parted with your cash, just like they didn't for the rest of us, but your bitter attitude will fail you the interview, if you ever get one. I see all your 12 postings have been about your negative views re the job market, even calling it 'scandalous' in one post that you can't find a job! You keep calling the job market crap, may I suggest you go back through the 'how many hours and how long to first job' posts and see just how many have been employed during this 'crap' period. 500 hours with 100 multi is nothing in the eyes of the hirers. People do get jobs with less but they are the exception. You need more multi hours and failing that you need at least 1000. It's all down to market forces mate.
So, all the rest of you Wanabees, learn a lesson from piperindian - it is not easy after qualification, but you need to stay focused and try every avenue, then try them again whilst building those hours and then determination will out. Look at the ATP scheme run by CTC (piperindian don't bother as you would not get through their selection process with that attitude) and keep smiling!
Good luck guys and gals.
PP
PS. oh, and by the way TDL I shot at Bisley in both the rifle and gun matches but can't say it's helped with a flying job!
[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: Pilot Pete ]
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TDL as someone who was in a similar position (31 yr old Ex-RAF ATCO), I persuaded my wife that selling the house was the best option, we made a packet (after spending several years paying the mortgage off as much as we could) and are now living in Arizona. I have my FAA CPL IR and am starting ME tomorrow. (I'm FAA because I can work over here). It's going to cost me about $55K, following which I'm pretty much guaranteed a job over here.
Pay up and go for it.
Pay up and go for it.
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All I can say mate is Good Luck. I'm about the same age as you but am sitting here reading all of the above messages (good and bad)because I dont have the money or properties to go for the dream we all have.
If I had a couple of properties to sell,I would be booked on the appropriate coures without a doubt.
One last thing, if you don't do it, you will kick yourself for the rest of your life and always wonder "what if", if you do, just think of all the troll-dolls you could be shagging. N U F F S A I D
Best
Mike
If I had a couple of properties to sell,I would be booked on the appropriate coures without a doubt.
One last thing, if you don't do it, you will kick yourself for the rest of your life and always wonder "what if", if you do, just think of all the troll-dolls you could be shagging. N U F F S A I D
Best
Mike
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Thanks for your words of encouragement Mike, Jedi et al.
For those doubting thomas's. I have put a great deal of effort into getting a couple of hundred FREE hours in this year, while distance learning. I will probably finish slightly after somebody who is full time. The difference is I am planning for my future incase a recession hits...Quite Likely.
From those posts that say Ishould sell a property...It sounds that you are doubting or even knocking those who are distance learning. Why do we distance learn in the first place?
Never under estimate the power of the TDL.
For those doubting thomas's. I have put a great deal of effort into getting a couple of hundred FREE hours in this year, while distance learning. I will probably finish slightly after somebody who is full time. The difference is I am planning for my future incase a recession hits...Quite Likely.
From those posts that say Ishould sell a property...It sounds that you are doubting or even knocking those who are distance learning. Why do we distance learn in the first place?
Never under estimate the power of the TDL.
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TDL,
if I read your posts correctly, you are unwilling to sell or re-mortgage a property to finance your commercial flying training. Therefore (see my last post above)I assume you hope to earn enough from another from of employment to cover your living and training costs without risking what you see as your fall-back.
You say you've managed a couple of hundred hours this year, but you don't say whether any of that time counts toward your licences, or indeed, what it is you have left to do to your FATPL.
It seems to me that you are looking for a risk-free route to a flying career. Believe me, there isn't one! If you can earn enough to do all the above, why risk that earning potential for an uncertain future in aviation - especially during a recession (if it happens)? In fact, why put yourself in the notoriously insecure and fickle pilots' world at all? I sounds to me that you unwilling to accept the risks that this field carries, and that you're possibly looking for reasons not to do it rather than reasons to go ahead.
At the end of the day, it's your choice. There's no risk-free route, and you (it would seem) have the financial capability to pay your own way - but you have to risk what you've already built up. Funnily enough, that's true for almost all the wannabes on this forum - that's why you've had a bit of a rough ride here. The difference is that many of them have debts of £50k or more without the property to fall back on - but they took the risk, and will hopefully reap the rewards. As I said before, do you really want to do this, or would you rather reach 50 with lots of properties and an equal number of regrets?
I think, for you, this will only be sorted out after some deep and meaningful thought on your part. But don't blame us for offering you the obvious answer, and giving you little sympathy when you don't accept our opinions.
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: scroggs ]
if I read your posts correctly, you are unwilling to sell or re-mortgage a property to finance your commercial flying training. Therefore (see my last post above)I assume you hope to earn enough from another from of employment to cover your living and training costs without risking what you see as your fall-back.
You say you've managed a couple of hundred hours this year, but you don't say whether any of that time counts toward your licences, or indeed, what it is you have left to do to your FATPL.
It seems to me that you are looking for a risk-free route to a flying career. Believe me, there isn't one! If you can earn enough to do all the above, why risk that earning potential for an uncertain future in aviation - especially during a recession (if it happens)? In fact, why put yourself in the notoriously insecure and fickle pilots' world at all? I sounds to me that you unwilling to accept the risks that this field carries, and that you're possibly looking for reasons not to do it rather than reasons to go ahead.
At the end of the day, it's your choice. There's no risk-free route, and you (it would seem) have the financial capability to pay your own way - but you have to risk what you've already built up. Funnily enough, that's true for almost all the wannabes on this forum - that's why you've had a bit of a rough ride here. The difference is that many of them have debts of £50k or more without the property to fall back on - but they took the risk, and will hopefully reap the rewards. As I said before, do you really want to do this, or would you rather reach 50 with lots of properties and an equal number of regrets?
I think, for you, this will only be sorted out after some deep and meaningful thought on your part. But don't blame us for offering you the obvious answer, and giving you little sympathy when you don't accept our opinions.
[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: scroggs ]