Now or never??
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Now or never??
Having come to a crossroads in my career, I now have the chance to go for the one thing that I have always wanted to do......go for my full commercial licence. Easier said than done but to be honest, I do not consider the financial layout or the technical aspects of the course to stop me..........the thing that worries me since subscribing to this forum is the availability of jobs etc.
To put everyone in the picture, I am 36 years old and have been looking to do an integrated course at Oxford or Cabair.....
It's easy to see that there are lots of unemployed fully qualified pilots on here but what I really need is some kind of statistical
data to point out the number of unemployed/employed personel in the UK and Europe and hopefully the breakdown of the number of people out of training school who get jobs when times are better.........I know this may be a little difficult to establish but all I really need is some kind of run-down of good times/bad............
after all, spending £60k is not for the fainthearted................
my decision is still in the balance.........although to be honest I must admit I am one of lifes chancers and will see some light in a dark tunnel.......however dark......
Thanks to all in advance
To put everyone in the picture, I am 36 years old and have been looking to do an integrated course at Oxford or Cabair.....
It's easy to see that there are lots of unemployed fully qualified pilots on here but what I really need is some kind of statistical
data to point out the number of unemployed/employed personel in the UK and Europe and hopefully the breakdown of the number of people out of training school who get jobs when times are better.........I know this may be a little difficult to establish but all I really need is some kind of run-down of good times/bad............
after all, spending £60k is not for the fainthearted................
my decision is still in the balance.........although to be honest I must admit I am one of lifes chancers and will see some light in a dark tunnel.......however dark......
Thanks to all in advance
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chancha
You are not alone - but then you already know that, since this is a forum for 'wannabes' or perhaps more correctly 'wannados'.
I am at the same crossroads as yourself, but have arrived there a few years later than you. I have had my ear to the ground regarding the pilot job market over several years and have only come to one conclusion. Do not believe anything you read or anything you hear - it is nearly all rubbish.
As a PPL holder at present, my ambition in flying is primarily to become a better, more confident, more capable pilot and to have fun doing it. If, along the way, I can gain the night rating, IMC rating, do a 300nm XC, pass the ATPL ground exams, pass the CPL flight test, obtain the FI rating, gain the multi time, do the IR etc. etc. etc. then I will have a crack at it. And if at the end someone thinks I am good enough to teach others how to fly, or even be responsible for the lives of dozens of paying passengers, plus crew then that is fine. If not I will have no regrets because I will have relished every minute of my time in the air. The most important attribute to keep hold of is your self belief. If you want it enough you will achieve your ambition. Just be sure that you know what you want first.
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Still dazed and confused.
You are not alone - but then you already know that, since this is a forum for 'wannabes' or perhaps more correctly 'wannados'.
I am at the same crossroads as yourself, but have arrived there a few years later than you. I have had my ear to the ground regarding the pilot job market over several years and have only come to one conclusion. Do not believe anything you read or anything you hear - it is nearly all rubbish.
As a PPL holder at present, my ambition in flying is primarily to become a better, more confident, more capable pilot and to have fun doing it. If, along the way, I can gain the night rating, IMC rating, do a 300nm XC, pass the ATPL ground exams, pass the CPL flight test, obtain the FI rating, gain the multi time, do the IR etc. etc. etc. then I will have a crack at it. And if at the end someone thinks I am good enough to teach others how to fly, or even be responsible for the lives of dozens of paying passengers, plus crew then that is fine. If not I will have no regrets because I will have relished every minute of my time in the air. The most important attribute to keep hold of is your self belief. If you want it enough you will achieve your ambition. Just be sure that you know what you want first.
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Still dazed and confused.
Join Date: Dec 1998
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Good advice from phd. There will always be horror stories of people selling their homes to pay for a course then not getting a job - in fact I know someone like that myself. But there are also heartening stories of people who get jet jobs with 200hrs etc.
Yes, some are lucky or unlucky (the guy I know has been unlucky), but mostly its down to the individual. Getting a job is not about having the rating - an employer wants the person, not a licence. Deep down, you need to ask yourself if you've got what it takes to be an airline pilot, and got what it takes to pass an interview selection once you've got the licence. If your face doesn't fit, then no point spending all that money.
Obviously your age counts against you, but it doesn't have to be a barrier. If you're an impressive enough person, then you will get hired anyway. Also, now is a very bad time for jobs, but in 12 months or so when you finsish your course then hopefully things will be much brighter. No guarantee, but now is probably quite a good time to be training - if you wait till times are good you'll probably have missed the boat by the time you're ready to go for jobs. Flying schools are quiet, with few sponsored students, and self sponsored guys will get much more attention.
Not an easy decision, but if you're determined enough maybe you should invest in yourself - good luck whatever you decide.
Yes, some are lucky or unlucky (the guy I know has been unlucky), but mostly its down to the individual. Getting a job is not about having the rating - an employer wants the person, not a licence. Deep down, you need to ask yourself if you've got what it takes to be an airline pilot, and got what it takes to pass an interview selection once you've got the licence. If your face doesn't fit, then no point spending all that money.
Obviously your age counts against you, but it doesn't have to be a barrier. If you're an impressive enough person, then you will get hired anyway. Also, now is a very bad time for jobs, but in 12 months or so when you finsish your course then hopefully things will be much brighter. No guarantee, but now is probably quite a good time to be training - if you wait till times are good you'll probably have missed the boat by the time you're ready to go for jobs. Flying schools are quiet, with few sponsored students, and self sponsored guys will get much more attention.
Not an easy decision, but if you're determined enough maybe you should invest in yourself - good luck whatever you decide.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
One thing to consider about all of this. Sure, a jet job is nice at the end of it all. However, one thing you MUST take into account that you may not get one. The best you might get is a a turboprop out fit earning 16-18K a year. Can you and your family afford to live on this wage or worse for 2-3 years? If the answer is NO, then think long and hard about this career.
Paying for the licence is one thing, getting a good salary after it is another.
I don't want to scare you but just point out what the glossy brochures will not tell you.
Another thing to consider is that the industry is a lot more mobile than what it used to be. Europe isn't the only place that pilots lurk and wait.
Paying for the licence is one thing, getting a good salary after it is another.
I don't want to scare you but just point out what the glossy brochures will not tell you.
Another thing to consider is that the industry is a lot more mobile than what it used to be. Europe isn't the only place that pilots lurk and wait.
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chancha let nothing stop you from acquiring your license.
I got my FAA commercial license in 1998 at age 28 and only started flying professionally just over a year now.
I have always wanted to be a pilot but just never got round to taking that giant leap and felt after a while that I had lost the bug !
one day after a long and bumpy flight into Lagos coming back from a trip for the firm I used to work for in the middle nineties seating in the jumpseat of a bac-111 it all came back, you know!, the bug and I dumped everything a few years later and here I am today.
Although I work in my country Nigeria, and the pay and terms of employment are not as appealing as you have in Europe, I just have no where else to go or turn to, this is what I have always wanted to do and I get by chancha, and I do it because its in the blood and I'd rather be here than seating in the jumpseat of aircrafts saying If only or I wish this and that, cos you know what, that was what my life started to look like before now, miles of endless roads that only left me with a broken dream.
You have a point when you say lots of unemployed fully qualified pilots are on here and what you really need is some kind of statistical data to point out the number of unemployed/employed personel in the UK and Europe and hopefully the breakdown of the number of people out of training school who get jobs when times are better, hhmm well if you want to go about it that way in this profession I most tell you from my own experience it will not help in convincing you. Although the cost in getting the training done is great and most time paid for at a high price these figures you talk about have never encouraged me even when I was training so I left that aside alone and till today never look at them even after sept. 11.
I believe most pilots are born to fly yes the financial aspects of it is important, dont get me wrong, man most eat, but what kind of a bite are you looking for. What I am trying to say is never let those blown up stories of the flamboyant life style pilots live and how well we all get paid, its not always the case and that is how it is, we get by and some of us get lucky and get by damned well too £££
but work their ass out to remain in that position.
Ask yourself what you would like to be doing for the next 26yrs my friend and if you want to pilot as my mother still tells her friends " my son pilots" well then get going and you will have a carrier and you will get by and who knows maybe break ranks and join the jetset pilots. Remember, no one wants to leave a trail of broken dreams so join us at The Blue Cafe up in the clouds.
From what I can see in your post, aviation is in your blood.
Goodluck with what comes your way
Zazoo
PS: You might want to take a look at this weeks flyer on pprune, Capt. Danny's story might be worth reading !
I got my FAA commercial license in 1998 at age 28 and only started flying professionally just over a year now.
I have always wanted to be a pilot but just never got round to taking that giant leap and felt after a while that I had lost the bug !
one day after a long and bumpy flight into Lagos coming back from a trip for the firm I used to work for in the middle nineties seating in the jumpseat of a bac-111 it all came back, you know!, the bug and I dumped everything a few years later and here I am today.
Although I work in my country Nigeria, and the pay and terms of employment are not as appealing as you have in Europe, I just have no where else to go or turn to, this is what I have always wanted to do and I get by chancha, and I do it because its in the blood and I'd rather be here than seating in the jumpseat of aircrafts saying If only or I wish this and that, cos you know what, that was what my life started to look like before now, miles of endless roads that only left me with a broken dream.
You have a point when you say lots of unemployed fully qualified pilots are on here and what you really need is some kind of statistical data to point out the number of unemployed/employed personel in the UK and Europe and hopefully the breakdown of the number of people out of training school who get jobs when times are better, hhmm well if you want to go about it that way in this profession I most tell you from my own experience it will not help in convincing you. Although the cost in getting the training done is great and most time paid for at a high price these figures you talk about have never encouraged me even when I was training so I left that aside alone and till today never look at them even after sept. 11.
I believe most pilots are born to fly yes the financial aspects of it is important, dont get me wrong, man most eat, but what kind of a bite are you looking for. What I am trying to say is never let those blown up stories of the flamboyant life style pilots live and how well we all get paid, its not always the case and that is how it is, we get by and some of us get lucky and get by damned well too £££
but work their ass out to remain in that position.Ask yourself what you would like to be doing for the next 26yrs my friend and if you want to pilot as my mother still tells her friends " my son pilots" well then get going and you will have a carrier and you will get by and who knows maybe break ranks and join the jetset pilots. Remember, no one wants to leave a trail of broken dreams so join us at The Blue Cafe up in the clouds.
From what I can see in your post, aviation is in your blood.
Goodluck with what comes your way
Zazoo
PS: You might want to take a look at this weeks flyer on pprune, Capt. Danny's story might be worth reading !
Last edited by ZAZOO; 1st Oct 2002 at 23:35.
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dont do the integrated route
Take some advice, a lot of people seem to think that if you want to be a pilot then the 60k full time route is the answer, far better to do it in stages and keep working till the market moves, also it removes a considerable amount of pressure as training is done at your own pace. It will also save you about £25,000. I myself am a wannabe and am a commercial instructor who one day will move on. At the moment I am training a fully sponsored and qualified BA student who has been told he may get a job late next year, at present he is gaining more experience at his own expense. I think this is a good indication of the market at the moment. If I were you I would take it a step at a time until things pick up. I personally know of 13 frozen ATPL's with current IR'S who are entering the third year as instructors like myself, most have over 2000hours ( I have over 3000) and send out lots of CV's every month. I hope this puts you in the picture.
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Same old advice really, dont go integrated as this is high risk with no job guaranteed at the end particularly for a more mature person.
Modular is a much lower risk and still with no guarantee of a job at the end but you can use the dosh you saved for keeping your ratings current and spending some valuable time in a decent sim. An FI course would also be worth while.
But most importantly before you do anything get a class one medical first.
cheers
MJR
Modular is a much lower risk and still with no guarantee of a job at the end but you can use the dosh you saved for keeping your ratings current and spending some valuable time in a decent sim. An FI course would also be worth while.
But most importantly before you do anything get a class one medical first.
cheers
MJR
