Changing Instructors
Free Man, Not a Number
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Fortunately I've got no problems with either of the chaps who instruct me. However I'm at a satalite operation so the chances of me ever seeing the CFI are ZERO.
However I'm big enough to talk things out if they arn't going well (currently cr*p at landing but with only 7 hours what can you exepct). If I'm not happy I'll vote with my feet and wallet - they know this todays market is pretty competative.
NOT that I'm likley to of course.
However I'm big enough to talk things out if they arn't going well (currently cr*p at landing but with only 7 hours what can you exepct). If I'm not happy I'll vote with my feet and wallet - they know this todays market is pretty competative.
NOT that I'm likley to of course.
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Thanks for taking the time to share that one with us Whirlybird.
I'm glad it all worked out in the end for you (I hope).
I'm glad it all worked out in the end for you (I hope).
Just one point of context. As a 17yr old you were paying more per hour to your driving instructor than you were to your flying instructor. Yet you demand the highest level of professionalism from your FI. IF you paid more for your FI then perhaps you would be guaranteed to get a more professional service. Rather than trust to chance.
Nothing annoys me more than people who train somewhere very cheap and then go somewhere else more expensive and get better treatment AND THEN slag off the cheap place. Why, oh why, do you think it was cheaper in the first place?
Its much much easier to be a good FI if you are on a salary and have decent working conditions and a contract than if you are paid by the hour, treated like crap and might be sacked tomorrow. But this costs money. Yours.
Just saying,
WWW
Nothing annoys me more than people who train somewhere very cheap and then go somewhere else more expensive and get better treatment AND THEN slag off the cheap place. Why, oh why, do you think it was cheaper in the first place?
Its much much easier to be a good FI if you are on a salary and have decent working conditions and a contract than if you are paid by the hour, treated like crap and might be sacked tomorrow. But this costs money. Yours.
Just saying,
WWW
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Interesting point of view WWW. My pay as a flight instructor ranged from zero, to flying in exchange for twin time, to a bottle of tequila for a BFR, to US$20 an hour for ground and flight time.
I hope I never let the amount of money (or lack of) or crummy management, enter into the effort I put in for my student. I took it as a matter of personal & professional pride to give 100% always. I always tried to remember what it was like for me when I was a student pilot.
Whirly - what an awful experience! Those sort of people are generally cowards and only try it on as long as they think they can get away with it. Well done you for battling through it! Learning to fly should be fun. None of us do ourselves or anyone else any favours by putting up with bully instructors.
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: Oleo ]
I hope I never let the amount of money (or lack of) or crummy management, enter into the effort I put in for my student. I took it as a matter of personal & professional pride to give 100% always. I always tried to remember what it was like for me when I was a student pilot.
Whirly - what an awful experience! Those sort of people are generally cowards and only try it on as long as they think they can get away with it. Well done you for battling through it! Learning to fly should be fun. None of us do ourselves or anyone else any favours by putting up with bully instructors.
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: Oleo ]
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It's sad that some people don't take the job as a flight instructor seriously!
I remember a FI that came to our school. The first time I was to fly with her, she looked rather grumpy and told me I didn't have to do the preflight. This made me nervous as our CFI had told us that this was paramount. Then, when I started reading the checklist, she just gazed out of her window and didn't pay atention whatsoever to what I was doing. When I came to the Taxi checklist and said, Brakes, check left, your brakes... your brakes, YOUR BRAKES! it took some time before she responded.
The rest of the session continued in this manner and by the end of it, I was furious.
I wasn't worried over the fact that she'd been horrible towards me, but more over the fact that she didn't seem to care about what I was doing. A teacher needs to be into the flying loop as much as the student does to prevent small mistakes from going to far.
Later I (and many of my classmates) expressed our thoughts and she got better. By the end of the term we were good friends and I thought of her as a good FI.
In your case though, the solution seems to be to change instructor. I this isn't possible, you'd better chat with him or change club.
regards/lns
I remember a FI that came to our school. The first time I was to fly with her, she looked rather grumpy and told me I didn't have to do the preflight. This made me nervous as our CFI had told us that this was paramount. Then, when I started reading the checklist, she just gazed out of her window and didn't pay atention whatsoever to what I was doing. When I came to the Taxi checklist and said, Brakes, check left, your brakes... your brakes, YOUR BRAKES! it took some time before she responded.
The rest of the session continued in this manner and by the end of it, I was furious.
I wasn't worried over the fact that she'd been horrible towards me, but more over the fact that she didn't seem to care about what I was doing. A teacher needs to be into the flying loop as much as the student does to prevent small mistakes from going to far.
Later I (and many of my classmates) expressed our thoughts and she got better. By the end of the term we were good friends and I thought of her as a good FI.
In your case though, the solution seems to be to change instructor. I this isn't possible, you'd better chat with him or change club.
regards/lns
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WWW I couldn't agree more, however the problem isn't limited to cheap schools. I learned at one of the more expensive schools in the UK, and found much variation in the quality of instructors.
An extra 5 or 10 pounds per hour on the cost of the lesson wouldn't put most people off (you're already paying around 110/hour in the uk) but it would make the difference between poverty and a living wage for instructors. If that were the case, I know there are a number of talented and motivated intructors who would make a career out of it, and that has to be good for the industry and us as pilots.
It's down to the schools - I wold happily pay enough to give the instuctor a decent wage. Finding out that the guy (Hi Pete) who'd just spent an hour with me saving my life every time I tried to flare too late/early earned something less per hour than the woman who cleans my house was a bit of a shock.
An extra 5 or 10 pounds per hour on the cost of the lesson wouldn't put most people off (you're already paying around 110/hour in the uk) but it would make the difference between poverty and a living wage for instructors. If that were the case, I know there are a number of talented and motivated intructors who would make a career out of it, and that has to be good for the industry and us as pilots.
It's down to the schools - I wold happily pay enough to give the instuctor a decent wage. Finding out that the guy (Hi Pete) who'd just spent an hour with me saving my life every time I tried to flare too late/early earned something less per hour than the woman who cleans my house was a bit of a shock.
The Original Whirly
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WWW,
I've heard this argument from you before, so let me spell it out for you. I'm not talking about being a good FI, I'm talking about NOT being an obnoxious bullying total bastard who does more harm than good. OK? You get the point?
I would have learned to fly more quickly if someone had said: "This is an aeroplane, this is roughly how it flies, now I'll sit here and make sure you don't kill us while you work it all out for yourself".
Incidentally, I don't think this chap ever did get an airline job. I wonder why.
I've heard this argument from you before, so let me spell it out for you. I'm not talking about being a good FI, I'm talking about NOT being an obnoxious bullying total bastard who does more harm than good. OK? You get the point?
I would have learned to fly more quickly if someone had said: "This is an aeroplane, this is roughly how it flies, now I'll sit here and make sure you don't kill us while you work it all out for yourself".
Incidentally, I don't think this chap ever did get an airline job. I wonder why.
The Original Whirly
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WWW,
You wrote:
"Its much much easier to be a good FI if you are on a salary and have decent working conditions and a contract than if you are paid by the hour, treated like crap and might be sacked tomorrow."
Hmm, this suggests to me that the flying school where I learnt and you taught has crap working conditions, and instructors are "treated like crap and might be sacked tomorrow". And yet whenever anyone asks about learning to fly at Welshpool, you're the first person to recommend it. Please explain.
I've done many jobs where I earned less even than Welshpool's flying instructors. I still always tried to do my best. Does the amount of effort you put into something always depend on whether you feel you're getting paid enough? Like Oleo, I find that more than a little worrying.
Instructors are not forced to work at any flying school; they can leave. If they choose to stay, then they are responsible for what they do, including the harm they do. You can't disclaim responsibility because of bad pay!
[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: Whirlybird ]
You wrote:
"Its much much easier to be a good FI if you are on a salary and have decent working conditions and a contract than if you are paid by the hour, treated like crap and might be sacked tomorrow."
Hmm, this suggests to me that the flying school where I learnt and you taught has crap working conditions, and instructors are "treated like crap and might be sacked tomorrow". And yet whenever anyone asks about learning to fly at Welshpool, you're the first person to recommend it. Please explain.
I've done many jobs where I earned less even than Welshpool's flying instructors. I still always tried to do my best. Does the amount of effort you put into something always depend on whether you feel you're getting paid enough? Like Oleo, I find that more than a little worrying.
Instructors are not forced to work at any flying school; they can leave. If they choose to stay, then they are responsible for what they do, including the harm they do. You can't disclaim responsibility because of bad pay!
[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: Whirlybird ]
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Well said whirly!!!
Great idea folks, all for, it pay instructors more!!!
Problem is, where does the money come from. The small FTO’s /Clubs are on a crippling margin anyway. Students,.. will they cough up another £10 an hour…I DON’T THINK SO!
It’s crass to suggest that good instructors deliver less, and could even be bad instructors because of the pay (they knew about before they started). In fact it’s more than crass, it’s a bloody insult!
Good instructors are good instructors.
There are some pretty crap driving instructors out there buy the way WWW
[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: clear prop!!! ]
Great idea folks, all for, it pay instructors more!!!
Problem is, where does the money come from. The small FTO’s /Clubs are on a crippling margin anyway. Students,.. will they cough up another £10 an hour…I DON’T THINK SO!
It’s crass to suggest that good instructors deliver less, and could even be bad instructors because of the pay (they knew about before they started). In fact it’s more than crass, it’s a bloody insult!
Good instructors are good instructors.
There are some pretty crap driving instructors out there buy the way WWW
[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: clear prop!!! ]
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I was going to post this on 'agony aunt',but maybe you guys will be able to offer some much needed wisdom..
I've just spent a painful night with a very upset friend,one of the very few girls I know who also likes flying.She has wanted to be a pilot since she was a young kid & spent years working very hard to pay for it,like most of us.
She started her PPL about 3 years ago now.She still doesn't have it & has done about 100 hours with 2 instructors,both of whom I'd quite like to punch at this particular moment in time.The first guy she flew with for about 70 hours.Four hours into her PPL training she was told
a) she would take at least 80 hours to do her PPL
b)He felt it was a shame the club didn't have a policy of 'chopping unsuitable students'
c)She would better not 'get into trouble with her credit cards' on account of her 'slow progress'
I was told pretty much the same,but ignored it & used the f-word.This kid was too polite.
Rumour has it that none of this guy's female students have got their PPL's in less than 100 hours,but because he was an ATPL & an airline captain she seemed to think the sun shone out his arse & remained doggedly loyal & carried on flying with him.Christ knows what went on here,but nobody said a word about it.
She got 100% for most of her ground exams,gave up the idea of new cars & nights out & carried on flying.About a year ago she was told she was ready (after 70 hours,I think) to sit the GFT.At this point the original instructor left & she was assigned to a new instructor,purely to 'finish off'.The new instructor decided she had been taught 'a load of crap' by the first guy & should basically start from scratch & learn totally different methods.One year later,apparently she's still in the circuit,ground exams gone out of date & her confidence is in so many pieces she cries when anyone even asks how her flying is going..She feels she has failed & failed dreadfully at the only thing that ever mattered to her & her happiness & confidence have been totally destroyed.
I wondered exactly what dreadful problem existed with her - maybe she was just crap & tactfully needed to be told to stop.. Two weeks ago, I arranged to go flying with her to find out.She was able to fly & land a totally unfamiliar a/c type with no difficulty at all.Not a single problem. I am utterly baffled about what has happened here & more than a bit pissed off that a fellow flying friend,who was once the most enthusiastic & determined person I knew has got this. .Tonight,in floods of tears she told me she couldn't face the embarrasment of being a student any more & was giving it up.
I don't know what to say anymore & feel totally useless as a friend... Help.
[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: ScottishBurd ]
I've just spent a painful night with a very upset friend,one of the very few girls I know who also likes flying.She has wanted to be a pilot since she was a young kid & spent years working very hard to pay for it,like most of us.
She started her PPL about 3 years ago now.She still doesn't have it & has done about 100 hours with 2 instructors,both of whom I'd quite like to punch at this particular moment in time.The first guy she flew with for about 70 hours.Four hours into her PPL training she was told
a) she would take at least 80 hours to do her PPL
b)He felt it was a shame the club didn't have a policy of 'chopping unsuitable students'
c)She would better not 'get into trouble with her credit cards' on account of her 'slow progress'
I was told pretty much the same,but ignored it & used the f-word.This kid was too polite.
Rumour has it that none of this guy's female students have got their PPL's in less than 100 hours,but because he was an ATPL & an airline captain she seemed to think the sun shone out his arse & remained doggedly loyal & carried on flying with him.Christ knows what went on here,but nobody said a word about it.
She got 100% for most of her ground exams,gave up the idea of new cars & nights out & carried on flying.About a year ago she was told she was ready (after 70 hours,I think) to sit the GFT.At this point the original instructor left & she was assigned to a new instructor,purely to 'finish off'.The new instructor decided she had been taught 'a load of crap' by the first guy & should basically start from scratch & learn totally different methods.One year later,apparently she's still in the circuit,ground exams gone out of date & her confidence is in so many pieces she cries when anyone even asks how her flying is going..She feels she has failed & failed dreadfully at the only thing that ever mattered to her & her happiness & confidence have been totally destroyed.
I wondered exactly what dreadful problem existed with her - maybe she was just crap & tactfully needed to be told to stop.. Two weeks ago, I arranged to go flying with her to find out.She was able to fly & land a totally unfamiliar a/c type with no difficulty at all.Not a single problem. I am utterly baffled about what has happened here & more than a bit pissed off that a fellow flying friend,who was once the most enthusiastic & determined person I knew has got this. .Tonight,in floods of tears she told me she couldn't face the embarrasment of being a student any more & was giving it up.
I don't know what to say anymore & feel totally useless as a friend... Help.
[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: ScottishBurd ]
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Awww ScottishBurd. Your poor friend. Sounds like, if she can fly, then you should try and cheer her up and help her find a decent instructor, who can help boost her confidence a bit.
There's a whole stack of people out there including me, whirly, etc., who had a miserable time around the start, but who managed to get it all back on track through sheer force of will and bloody-mindedness, eventually.
I quit the engine stuff to fly gliders and to try and fall back in love with flying again. I was helped in this by a wonderful bunch of instructors, Dave Larsons, Ingo, Steve Nichols and Pat Brown who collectively had me solo in a couple of hours flight time, but more importantly, taught me the behaviours and confidence required of a student, that had **never** been taught to me before.
Confidence and good decision making are important to you when you are PIC, but are also crucial for any kind of flight test be it a skills test, a BFR, a checkout, or even dual with a new instructor.
I think there is a set of people in the world who would rather sit back and listen, and who are attentive to every word, nuance, gesture and intonation of the person teaching them to fly. This can be a killer, if the person teaching regards this as a weakness.
My flying improved when to a certain extent I stopped listening quite so much, and started regarding the aircraft and the decisions as mine, until definitely informed otherwise. It was a great step forward when an instructor informed me that, while he might have flown slightly differently, I had done a perfectly good job and he was happy to sign me off.
As far as being embarrassed at being a student goes, maybe she just needs to think of the end result, the freedom, the achievement, and it **will** be worth it. Brazen it out !! 50 hours or 100 hours, she'll still be a pilot, and that betters 90 % of people, like it or not.
Keep her at it. Good Luck !!!!
There's a whole stack of people out there including me, whirly, etc., who had a miserable time around the start, but who managed to get it all back on track through sheer force of will and bloody-mindedness, eventually.
I quit the engine stuff to fly gliders and to try and fall back in love with flying again. I was helped in this by a wonderful bunch of instructors, Dave Larsons, Ingo, Steve Nichols and Pat Brown who collectively had me solo in a couple of hours flight time, but more importantly, taught me the behaviours and confidence required of a student, that had **never** been taught to me before.
Confidence and good decision making are important to you when you are PIC, but are also crucial for any kind of flight test be it a skills test, a BFR, a checkout, or even dual with a new instructor.
I think there is a set of people in the world who would rather sit back and listen, and who are attentive to every word, nuance, gesture and intonation of the person teaching them to fly. This can be a killer, if the person teaching regards this as a weakness.
My flying improved when to a certain extent I stopped listening quite so much, and started regarding the aircraft and the decisions as mine, until definitely informed otherwise. It was a great step forward when an instructor informed me that, while he might have flown slightly differently, I had done a perfectly good job and he was happy to sign me off.
As far as being embarrassed at being a student goes, maybe she just needs to think of the end result, the freedom, the achievement, and it **will** be worth it. Brazen it out !! 50 hours or 100 hours, she'll still be a pilot, and that betters 90 % of people, like it or not.
Keep her at it. Good Luck !!!!
The Original Whirly
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ScottishBurd,
This sounds so like my experiences it's uncanny, though considerably worse. You've only got the bare bones above. I was told after about 3 hours: "You'll make it, but you won't do it in 40 hours". Luckily I took that positively and always hung on to the "you'll make it". Even after I got my PPL I never believed I was any good for ages. I remember one friend, a PPL who'd been flying for over 20 years, saying to me in bewilderment: "What's the matter with you? Your flying's fine, you land that horrible little tomahawk better than I can, you're OK on the radio - why do you think you can't fly?". I know why; I'd been told it too often in too many ways.
This sort of thing happens far too often. I've now gathered that what happened to me is common, and that the only fairly unusual thing is that I stuck it out and actually got my PPL. Tell your friend to find another school, and that she CAN do it; these so-called instructors are idiots and arseholes. And please please please persuade her to e-mail me, cos maybe someone who's been there can help!
Just had a thought; my first instructor (not the "X" mentioned above); moved to Scotland and got an airline job. Could it be the same guy?
This sounds so like my experiences it's uncanny, though considerably worse. You've only got the bare bones above. I was told after about 3 hours: "You'll make it, but you won't do it in 40 hours". Luckily I took that positively and always hung on to the "you'll make it". Even after I got my PPL I never believed I was any good for ages. I remember one friend, a PPL who'd been flying for over 20 years, saying to me in bewilderment: "What's the matter with you? Your flying's fine, you land that horrible little tomahawk better than I can, you're OK on the radio - why do you think you can't fly?". I know why; I'd been told it too often in too many ways.
This sort of thing happens far too often. I've now gathered that what happened to me is common, and that the only fairly unusual thing is that I stuck it out and actually got my PPL. Tell your friend to find another school, and that she CAN do it; these so-called instructors are idiots and arseholes. And please please please persuade her to e-mail me, cos maybe someone who's been there can help!
Just had a thought; my first instructor (not the "X" mentioned above); moved to Scotland and got an airline job. Could it be the same guy?
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I couldn't agree more with Whirlybird regarding 'X' I too have had the 'pleasure' of meeting this guy, plus some of his students, (thankfully, I declined his offer of becoming one!).
At 'X's establishment, (with the 'tuition' of 2 instructors), I just could not progress beyond the circuit, and simply could NOT land the aeroplane; WHY? - I simply did not know HOW, having never been taught the basics. The instructor would always take over to do the landing, telling me to "follow through on the controls".
After parting with an obscene amount of cash, (for a school that boasts low rates), plus due to some personal reasons, I gave up for nearly a year.
On deciding to restart training, there was no way I was going back to this place, and started looking elsewhere.
To cut a long story short, I restarted my training with an extremely experienced professional instructor, (not an hours builder), who has been teaching for years. Even though he is not the cheapest, and the location of his school meant me undertaking a four hour drive, and paying for digs, pound for pound it has worked out a lot cheaper.
The reason is simple:- this guy knows how to teach PROPERLY. After only two hours instruction, my landing problems were obliterated. After 3 days, I went solo for the first time. I'm now on the verge of completing, and, time and work permitting, will be going down shortly to do just this.
Also, (and this is just my personal opinion), he's not frightened of possibly getting a 'blip' on his shiny ATPL should a student of his scratch the aeroplane.
The moral of my story is the same as that given by most participants to this thread: If you are unhappy, and/or are being demoralised by an instructor, for Gods sake, CHANGE him/her. At the end of the day, it's your money that is being wasted, and perhaps, more importantly, your self esteem that is being destroyed by these people
There ARE good instructors around, who genuinely want you to succeed, and who take a pride in your achievements, don't give up until you find one!
ariel
At 'X's establishment, (with the 'tuition' of 2 instructors), I just could not progress beyond the circuit, and simply could NOT land the aeroplane; WHY? - I simply did not know HOW, having never been taught the basics. The instructor would always take over to do the landing, telling me to "follow through on the controls".
After parting with an obscene amount of cash, (for a school that boasts low rates), plus due to some personal reasons, I gave up for nearly a year.
On deciding to restart training, there was no way I was going back to this place, and started looking elsewhere.
To cut a long story short, I restarted my training with an extremely experienced professional instructor, (not an hours builder), who has been teaching for years. Even though he is not the cheapest, and the location of his school meant me undertaking a four hour drive, and paying for digs, pound for pound it has worked out a lot cheaper.
The reason is simple:- this guy knows how to teach PROPERLY. After only two hours instruction, my landing problems were obliterated. After 3 days, I went solo for the first time. I'm now on the verge of completing, and, time and work permitting, will be going down shortly to do just this.
Also, (and this is just my personal opinion), he's not frightened of possibly getting a 'blip' on his shiny ATPL should a student of his scratch the aeroplane.
The moral of my story is the same as that given by most participants to this thread: If you are unhappy, and/or are being demoralised by an instructor, for Gods sake, CHANGE him/her. At the end of the day, it's your money that is being wasted, and perhaps, more importantly, your self esteem that is being destroyed by these people
There ARE good instructors around, who genuinely want you to succeed, and who take a pride in your achievements, don't give up until you find one!
ariel
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I too was told in the early stages to give up, and not very gently either. Fact is I didn't have a clue what was expected of me or how I was progressing if at all; and was scared to make a twit of myself. I never had a single pre-flight briefing, and during my CPL the only debrief I got was "that was a load of cr@p". It wasn't until I did the instructor rating that I realised how lacking my early training had been. eg I spent 10 hours in the circuit before my favourite instructor realised I couldn't land, because my seat was too low and all I could see in the flare was instruments. One cusion later and bingo. I wasn't so stupid after all!
Being a stubborn old bag I kept at it, and when I was studying for my CPL writtens, the aero club had a book running on how many times I would fail them before I gave up. Nobody won anything.
Is it a girl thing? Do the males assume we're rubbish at flying before we start and of course that rubs off onto us?
There's no doubt that us girls learn very differently from the guys, and stereotyping can get in the way of our progress. Low self esteem is a big problem.
Scottishburd, please give your friend a hug from me, I know how she feels, she's not alone. Us girls tend to be thinking of so many things at once it's difficult to focus on just one thing. But that's the trick, to leave everything else on the ground and concentrate only on the flying.
I have a teenage girl learning to fly with me, she gets a bit wobbly sometimes and then takes a deep breath and says "I can do this!" and she has her confidence back again.
Simple, but very effective.
[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]
Being a stubborn old bag I kept at it, and when I was studying for my CPL writtens, the aero club had a book running on how many times I would fail them before I gave up. Nobody won anything.
Is it a girl thing? Do the males assume we're rubbish at flying before we start and of course that rubs off onto us?
There's no doubt that us girls learn very differently from the guys, and stereotyping can get in the way of our progress. Low self esteem is a big problem.
Scottishburd, please give your friend a hug from me, I know how she feels, she's not alone. Us girls tend to be thinking of so many things at once it's difficult to focus on just one thing. But that's the trick, to leave everything else on the ground and concentrate only on the flying.
I have a teenage girl learning to fly with me, she gets a bit wobbly sometimes and then takes a deep breath and says "I can do this!" and she has her confidence back again.
Simple, but very effective.
[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]
Whirly - I said it is EASIER to be a good instructor if you are not paid rubbish and treated like it.
At Welshpool I earned a very decent wage flying an avergae of 85hrs a month and whilst the Boss was harsh I was always paid on time and was glad of the job.
You lot can bang on about 'professionalism' all you like but in the real world YES it does make a difference if you are earning sod all whilst risking your life day in and day out.
The term 'hours building instructor' is being taken as a term of denogration. Well fine. If you want a professional full time instructor then my hourly rate last year was circa £70. Fancy paying that? No? Well stop moaning then.
I hate rubbish Flying Instructors with a passion. I've seen up close what damage they can do. I can take nothing away from the personal testimont of those here you have had bad experiences (Whirly - I can't for the life of me remember you you flew with - do email me as I am intrigued now altough I do believe you).
On the topic of being told you are not very good.
If thats done by a poor instructor because of hi own lackof ability then its an utter disgrace.
However, lets look at the other side of the coin.
I've seen young Bloggs pitch up with the course price and a packet of smarties in his pocket and nothing else besides. He turns out to be 'average'. The 'average' PPL is issued with some 70hrs in the logbook. Is his intructor remiss to tell him to expect an extra 20hrs from the early days or is he remiss in allowing the student to continue down a path which will lead to a running out of cash and therefore the end of training? Tough call.
Taking it a stage further - is an instructor ever right to discourage someone from continuing wither with a PPL or a Professional Career ambition?
I think yes and and have had to do so.
On the PPL front the only consideration is safety and enjoyment. Some peope start and frankly they will never be safe. They may throw money at the problem and get themselves on a good day through their test. Two years later they become a statistic. Shame their instructor never advised them to take up another hobby eh? I've seen shaky students get through PPL's and then seen them have accidents shortly afterwards.
Its all very well being sweetness and light and adopting an attitude of everyone can do this it just takes effort and training. Yeah it does but it also requires some degree of aptitude - not a lot - but some. Some people don't have it accept it.
Then there is the Career flying training scenario.
All of the above applies its just that nearly everyone that starts down this path has the ability to pass the PPL stage. Its just that fromday one if you as an instructor can see that they are going to really struggle to pass the single pilot instrument rating flight test then they may as well not spend that first penny.
I had a student, a nice young chap with a very good attitude whom I bent over backwards to carry through his CPL course. But he wasn't going to make it - I knew. I told him. He shrugged it off and promised to re-double his efforts. I told him again and put it in writing that he was 'extremely unlikley to pass the full course'. Again he shrugs this off. By now he is having a miserable time, failing groundschool as well and is starting to dread flying. I'm not shouting, I'm not miserable - but you can't be upbeat when Bloggs has just made a complete hash of an exercise you are repeating for the fourth time.
Bloggs eventually fails a significant flight test once again and push comes to shove and he jacks it in.
The bill? £34,000. The outcome, not even a PPL.
He returns home to bewildered parents who are distraugt to find out he has failed - he told them everything was mostly fine. At a very young age he has a financial millstone around his neck, his family and friends are hurt, shocked and out of pocket and he is quite quite miserable.
All of this could have been avoided 10's of thousands of pounds earlier and with a lot lot less heartache.
It is a lasting regret of mine that I could not have spared this young man and his familt this terrible woe. Short of dragging him out of the college and throwing him out the gate there is little else I could have done.
Thats perhaps just a glimpse of the other side of the coin.
Good luck with any training - it never stops...
WWW
At Welshpool I earned a very decent wage flying an avergae of 85hrs a month and whilst the Boss was harsh I was always paid on time and was glad of the job.
You lot can bang on about 'professionalism' all you like but in the real world YES it does make a difference if you are earning sod all whilst risking your life day in and day out.
The term 'hours building instructor' is being taken as a term of denogration. Well fine. If you want a professional full time instructor then my hourly rate last year was circa £70. Fancy paying that? No? Well stop moaning then.
I hate rubbish Flying Instructors with a passion. I've seen up close what damage they can do. I can take nothing away from the personal testimont of those here you have had bad experiences (Whirly - I can't for the life of me remember you you flew with - do email me as I am intrigued now altough I do believe you).
On the topic of being told you are not very good.
If thats done by a poor instructor because of hi own lackof ability then its an utter disgrace.
However, lets look at the other side of the coin.
I've seen young Bloggs pitch up with the course price and a packet of smarties in his pocket and nothing else besides. He turns out to be 'average'. The 'average' PPL is issued with some 70hrs in the logbook. Is his intructor remiss to tell him to expect an extra 20hrs from the early days or is he remiss in allowing the student to continue down a path which will lead to a running out of cash and therefore the end of training? Tough call.
Taking it a stage further - is an instructor ever right to discourage someone from continuing wither with a PPL or a Professional Career ambition?
I think yes and and have had to do so.
On the PPL front the only consideration is safety and enjoyment. Some peope start and frankly they will never be safe. They may throw money at the problem and get themselves on a good day through their test. Two years later they become a statistic. Shame their instructor never advised them to take up another hobby eh? I've seen shaky students get through PPL's and then seen them have accidents shortly afterwards.
Its all very well being sweetness and light and adopting an attitude of everyone can do this it just takes effort and training. Yeah it does but it also requires some degree of aptitude - not a lot - but some. Some people don't have it accept it.
Then there is the Career flying training scenario.
All of the above applies its just that nearly everyone that starts down this path has the ability to pass the PPL stage. Its just that fromday one if you as an instructor can see that they are going to really struggle to pass the single pilot instrument rating flight test then they may as well not spend that first penny.
I had a student, a nice young chap with a very good attitude whom I bent over backwards to carry through his CPL course. But he wasn't going to make it - I knew. I told him. He shrugged it off and promised to re-double his efforts. I told him again and put it in writing that he was 'extremely unlikley to pass the full course'. Again he shrugs this off. By now he is having a miserable time, failing groundschool as well and is starting to dread flying. I'm not shouting, I'm not miserable - but you can't be upbeat when Bloggs has just made a complete hash of an exercise you are repeating for the fourth time.
Bloggs eventually fails a significant flight test once again and push comes to shove and he jacks it in.
The bill? £34,000. The outcome, not even a PPL.
He returns home to bewildered parents who are distraugt to find out he has failed - he told them everything was mostly fine. At a very young age he has a financial millstone around his neck, his family and friends are hurt, shocked and out of pocket and he is quite quite miserable.
All of this could have been avoided 10's of thousands of pounds earlier and with a lot lot less heartache.
It is a lasting regret of mine that I could not have spared this young man and his familt this terrible woe. Short of dragging him out of the college and throwing him out the gate there is little else I could have done.
Thats perhaps just a glimpse of the other side of the coin.
Good luck with any training - it never stops...
WWW
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WWW
You were obviously at Welshpool before my time, so I've never met you. I happen to agree with your philosophy of being straight with people if they are obviously not going to make the grade - personally, I'd definitely want to know, (and did in fact once ask, to make sure, but was told you're OK - carry on). If at any time now or in the future I think I'm not going to be safe, I'd like to think I've got the sense to call it a day, and not put other lives at risk, or become a needless statistic.
My gripe with what I call 'hours builders' (this only applies to the ones I've met), is this: In my <humble> opinion, MOST, (not all), of them are not really in it to ensure 'Bloggs' is OK. They are there mainly to get the required amount of hours to enable them to be accepted into an airline, and as such, are 'flying on the students back'.
During my time at the above establishment, I had 2 instructors, (as stated on my previous post). Instructor one was 'persuaded' to take me up, even though the weather was bad. (At this early stage, I needed to have a reasonable horizon, not cloud coverage). Sometimes, instructor one himself didn't want to get airborne - HE told me that. This happened a couple of times, and on one occasion, instructor one actually nearly panicked when coming down to land in bad visibility. Obviously, what I actually learnt from these sessions was zilch - zero - nothing. The school had their money, instructor one had his hours, (and shattered nerves), and me? - bereft of a couple of hundred pounds, and nothing else to show for it.
Instructor two was somewhat better. A nice chap, but forever moaning about the school, (what they paid him, how they treated him, (and others), how he couldn't wait to get to an airline etc...). In fact, every lesson, I got an up-to-date progress report on his aspiring career. Very nice, except for the fact that I wasn't actually learning anything at all!
WWW, faced with instructors like this, how is one supposed to progress? I don't know, please tell me. With retrospect I should have put a stop to it and either gotten yet another instructor from this school, (third time lucky?), or gone elsewhere. BUT because of my inexperience, I did nothing, 'secure in the knowledge' that they knew best.
It wasn't just here that I felt let down: My very first lesson was at a different school, with a maniac for an instructor - he thought it funny to drop the plane out of the sky, and dive at the ground with absolutely NO explanation of what he was doing, (presumably effect of controls?). This one very nearly put me off for life, but I persevered.
You can all say what you like, but there is absolutely no comparison with my present instructor, who CAN teach, and will not waste your cash by:
a) bleating on about himself,
b) sending you up in cr@p weather unless contributory to the lesson
c) giving false promises.
My post is not in any way, shape or form meant to tar all 'hours building' instructors with the same brush. I'm sure there are a lot of chap/esses who want to gain hours to get that airline job, but who do a damm good job of instructing. Similarly, there are probably 'professional' instructors who are no good. All I'm doing is making a comparison based on my own experiences, and trying to stop other people who are trying to learn to fly from making my mistakes.
Pity you weren't there when I was, WWW, maybe you'd have restored my faith!
ariel
You were obviously at Welshpool before my time, so I've never met you. I happen to agree with your philosophy of being straight with people if they are obviously not going to make the grade - personally, I'd definitely want to know, (and did in fact once ask, to make sure, but was told you're OK - carry on). If at any time now or in the future I think I'm not going to be safe, I'd like to think I've got the sense to call it a day, and not put other lives at risk, or become a needless statistic.
My gripe with what I call 'hours builders' (this only applies to the ones I've met), is this: In my <humble> opinion, MOST, (not all), of them are not really in it to ensure 'Bloggs' is OK. They are there mainly to get the required amount of hours to enable them to be accepted into an airline, and as such, are 'flying on the students back'.
During my time at the above establishment, I had 2 instructors, (as stated on my previous post). Instructor one was 'persuaded' to take me up, even though the weather was bad. (At this early stage, I needed to have a reasonable horizon, not cloud coverage). Sometimes, instructor one himself didn't want to get airborne - HE told me that. This happened a couple of times, and on one occasion, instructor one actually nearly panicked when coming down to land in bad visibility. Obviously, what I actually learnt from these sessions was zilch - zero - nothing. The school had their money, instructor one had his hours, (and shattered nerves), and me? - bereft of a couple of hundred pounds, and nothing else to show for it.
Instructor two was somewhat better. A nice chap, but forever moaning about the school, (what they paid him, how they treated him, (and others), how he couldn't wait to get to an airline etc...). In fact, every lesson, I got an up-to-date progress report on his aspiring career. Very nice, except for the fact that I wasn't actually learning anything at all!
WWW, faced with instructors like this, how is one supposed to progress? I don't know, please tell me. With retrospect I should have put a stop to it and either gotten yet another instructor from this school, (third time lucky?), or gone elsewhere. BUT because of my inexperience, I did nothing, 'secure in the knowledge' that they knew best.
It wasn't just here that I felt let down: My very first lesson was at a different school, with a maniac for an instructor - he thought it funny to drop the plane out of the sky, and dive at the ground with absolutely NO explanation of what he was doing, (presumably effect of controls?). This one very nearly put me off for life, but I persevered.
You can all say what you like, but there is absolutely no comparison with my present instructor, who CAN teach, and will not waste your cash by:
a) bleating on about himself,
b) sending you up in cr@p weather unless contributory to the lesson
c) giving false promises.
My post is not in any way, shape or form meant to tar all 'hours building' instructors with the same brush. I'm sure there are a lot of chap/esses who want to gain hours to get that airline job, but who do a damm good job of instructing. Similarly, there are probably 'professional' instructors who are no good. All I'm doing is making a comparison based on my own experiences, and trying to stop other people who are trying to learn to fly from making my mistakes.
Pity you weren't there when I was, WWW, maybe you'd have restored my faith!
ariel
Some of my best students were women, and some of my worst were men.
On the other some of my best were men, and some of worst were women.
As far as I can see, gender is irrelevent.
It's unfortunate that people end up with abysmal instructors. A bad instructor can make a brilliant student seem poor, whilst a good instructor can help a not-so-brilliant student achieve to the best of their ability.
As for "you will need x amount of hours...", I always told any enquirer that the miminum hours required are xxx but most people take yyy to get their licence.
I always told people I can't predict how long any particular individual will take as some people start well but run into difficulty later, others have difficulty early in their training but breeze through later stages. However, there are some general guidelines: younger is better than older, a life history of operating vehicles is better than one steering water buffalo, etc etc
Also that fewer the hours that people tend to have when they would achieve any particular stage of training then the greater the variability of hours realised eg. compare the minimum/median/maximum hours taken to achieve a PPL (40 min), compared to a CPL (150 min). A long winded way of saying that early stages vary more than later stages when a larger experience base has been acquired & skills have consolidated, I suppose.
On the other some of my best were men, and some of worst were women.
As far as I can see, gender is irrelevent.
It's unfortunate that people end up with abysmal instructors. A bad instructor can make a brilliant student seem poor, whilst a good instructor can help a not-so-brilliant student achieve to the best of their ability.
As for "you will need x amount of hours...", I always told any enquirer that the miminum hours required are xxx but most people take yyy to get their licence.
I always told people I can't predict how long any particular individual will take as some people start well but run into difficulty later, others have difficulty early in their training but breeze through later stages. However, there are some general guidelines: younger is better than older, a life history of operating vehicles is better than one steering water buffalo, etc etc
Also that fewer the hours that people tend to have when they would achieve any particular stage of training then the greater the variability of hours realised eg. compare the minimum/median/maximum hours taken to achieve a PPL (40 min), compared to a CPL (150 min). A long winded way of saying that early stages vary more than later stages when a larger experience base has been acquired & skills have consolidated, I suppose.
The Original Whirly
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ariel,
The reason I didn't name "X" was because I'd several times dropped into Welshpool recently and met him, and I thought he'd changed - sorry to hear that's maybe not the case. I believe he's now left there in any event. Your comments about flying in weather when even the instructors didn't want to fly is more worrying. Welshpool used to have a reputation for that happening in times gone by; it didn't when I was there, and I thought that had changed. If they've gone back to trying to get people airborne no matter what (I got the previous info from an ex-instructor who still lives near there), then perhaps anyone thinking of going there should be a bit concerned, to say the least. The place is surrounded by hills, for anyone who doesn't know it; not easy to land at the best of times, and certainly not in marginal weather.
Charlie Foxtrot India,
I've discussed this problem women tend to have, with quite a few people. At Welshpool, it seemed to be older guys (anyone over about 35) too. Welshpool has mainly young lads on intensive courses going for ATPLs, and anyone who doesn't fit the mold seems to find it much harder as the mainly young male instructors often don't seem to know what to do with them. Or that was our conclusion at the time anyway. Due to its low pay etc that WWW mentions frequently, Welshpool is wellknown for its high turnover of low hours instructors; at other flying schools in the area people know if they're desperate they can always get a job at Welshpool - but many of them feel they'd need to be desperate to do so. Result - a lot of rather immature young men, inexperienced with people and life even more than in flying, who are often overworked and desperate to leave. But I didn't know that at the time I ws there. It was my local airfield, and seemed a reasonable place to go. Of course I'd rather have paid more for better instruction if I'd known; 90 hours cost me double the advertised rate for the course didn't it? And I did my PPL(H) in less than the average, so I probably wouldn't have taken all that long if I hadn't had my confidence completely destroyed. And low self esteem wasn't a problem I'd had before. I was the opposite really, and I think the guys, especially X, found that threatening. I know X seemed put out that I loved stalling at first - I had no fear at that point, and the idea of falling out of the sky seemed like great fun. He hated it, so couldn't stand this over-confident older woman - and by the time he'd finished with me I was scared of it too and have been ever since. Yes, I suspect many males do think women are rubbish at flying before we even start - look at some of the comments on the regular "women pilots" threads on PPRuNe. I've never in my life been in an environment where so much prejudice exists as in aviation. Tinstaafl, thanks for the reasonable rational comments on that - but you have more brains and common sense than most of the instructors who've ever been at Welshpool and similar places all put together.
WWW,
I learned to fly a bit before your time at Welshpool. The first time I ever spoke to you there was to ask about landing at Derby's 500 ft grass runway in nil wind when the grass was wet - I'd just done it and wondered what I should have known in advance! You gave me a good answer I seem to remember. I'll e-mail you and tell you who taught me - or tried to or pretended to - anyway. And yes, a reasonable discussion with students who might not make it is fine, but there are ways and ways of doing things. It comes down to common sense and maturity really, unfortunately those aren't tested before an instructor rating is issued. When I learned to fly helos, prospective students were told that the average was 70 hours. I've also had it pointed out to me that the on-going problems I have with fatigue when flying could be a problem if I'm going commercial, due to the pressures involved. I've said I'll bear it in mind, think it will improve as helo flying becomes less stressful for me, only want to work part time anyway, and will give up the idea if it doesn't improve. A reasonable discussion, no criticism or threat involved, very helpful, and I know where I stand. No problem with any of that.
None of this whole discussion would be necessary if everyone could act like reasonable adults. Unfortunately this isn't the case. There's a lot more to flying, and teaching it, than just manipulating the controls.
The reason I didn't name "X" was because I'd several times dropped into Welshpool recently and met him, and I thought he'd changed - sorry to hear that's maybe not the case. I believe he's now left there in any event. Your comments about flying in weather when even the instructors didn't want to fly is more worrying. Welshpool used to have a reputation for that happening in times gone by; it didn't when I was there, and I thought that had changed. If they've gone back to trying to get people airborne no matter what (I got the previous info from an ex-instructor who still lives near there), then perhaps anyone thinking of going there should be a bit concerned, to say the least. The place is surrounded by hills, for anyone who doesn't know it; not easy to land at the best of times, and certainly not in marginal weather.
Charlie Foxtrot India,
I've discussed this problem women tend to have, with quite a few people. At Welshpool, it seemed to be older guys (anyone over about 35) too. Welshpool has mainly young lads on intensive courses going for ATPLs, and anyone who doesn't fit the mold seems to find it much harder as the mainly young male instructors often don't seem to know what to do with them. Or that was our conclusion at the time anyway. Due to its low pay etc that WWW mentions frequently, Welshpool is wellknown for its high turnover of low hours instructors; at other flying schools in the area people know if they're desperate they can always get a job at Welshpool - but many of them feel they'd need to be desperate to do so. Result - a lot of rather immature young men, inexperienced with people and life even more than in flying, who are often overworked and desperate to leave. But I didn't know that at the time I ws there. It was my local airfield, and seemed a reasonable place to go. Of course I'd rather have paid more for better instruction if I'd known; 90 hours cost me double the advertised rate for the course didn't it? And I did my PPL(H) in less than the average, so I probably wouldn't have taken all that long if I hadn't had my confidence completely destroyed. And low self esteem wasn't a problem I'd had before. I was the opposite really, and I think the guys, especially X, found that threatening. I know X seemed put out that I loved stalling at first - I had no fear at that point, and the idea of falling out of the sky seemed like great fun. He hated it, so couldn't stand this over-confident older woman - and by the time he'd finished with me I was scared of it too and have been ever since. Yes, I suspect many males do think women are rubbish at flying before we even start - look at some of the comments on the regular "women pilots" threads on PPRuNe. I've never in my life been in an environment where so much prejudice exists as in aviation. Tinstaafl, thanks for the reasonable rational comments on that - but you have more brains and common sense than most of the instructors who've ever been at Welshpool and similar places all put together.
WWW,
I learned to fly a bit before your time at Welshpool. The first time I ever spoke to you there was to ask about landing at Derby's 500 ft grass runway in nil wind when the grass was wet - I'd just done it and wondered what I should have known in advance! You gave me a good answer I seem to remember. I'll e-mail you and tell you who taught me - or tried to or pretended to - anyway. And yes, a reasonable discussion with students who might not make it is fine, but there are ways and ways of doing things. It comes down to common sense and maturity really, unfortunately those aren't tested before an instructor rating is issued. When I learned to fly helos, prospective students were told that the average was 70 hours. I've also had it pointed out to me that the on-going problems I have with fatigue when flying could be a problem if I'm going commercial, due to the pressures involved. I've said I'll bear it in mind, think it will improve as helo flying becomes less stressful for me, only want to work part time anyway, and will give up the idea if it doesn't improve. A reasonable discussion, no criticism or threat involved, very helpful, and I know where I stand. No problem with any of that.
None of this whole discussion would be necessary if everyone could act like reasonable adults. Unfortunately this isn't the case. There's a lot more to flying, and teaching it, than just manipulating the controls.
Free Man, Not a Number
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There seem to be a couple of threads mixed in here.
Should you be able to change instructors? Of course in the end it's your money bit of choker if you've pre-paid and the school you are with has few instructors.
Should instructors be paid more? I'd subscribe to that, however flying is already very expensive. I'd go another £5 or £10 per hour (ouch) - I think prehaps hours builders should be given a different oppertunity rather than FI to gain hours. Make instructing a profession or as had been said FI rating only arrives at 500 hours. Prehaps the NPPL will polarise this further.
On my landings (forgive me I'm only at 7 hours or so and with todays WX unlikley to get more) they are getting better. I've been advised that I should be able to complete the course in 45 hours - but I want to graduate and fly safe (my life and my familiy) so if it takes 70 or 80 I shan't bleat.
Should you be able to change instructors? Of course in the end it's your money bit of choker if you've pre-paid and the school you are with has few instructors.
Should instructors be paid more? I'd subscribe to that, however flying is already very expensive. I'd go another £5 or £10 per hour (ouch) - I think prehaps hours builders should be given a different oppertunity rather than FI to gain hours. Make instructing a profession or as had been said FI rating only arrives at 500 hours. Prehaps the NPPL will polarise this further.
On my landings (forgive me I'm only at 7 hours or so and with todays WX unlikley to get more) they are getting better. I've been advised that I should be able to complete the course in 45 hours - but I want to graduate and fly safe (my life and my familiy) so if it takes 70 or 80 I shan't bleat.
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My last flight instructor was horrible. I will refer to him as the bastard. I hated him. I was allocated the bastard. I didn’t have a choice in the matter. I could have gone and requested a new instructor. But the bastard told me that he would make me a professional pilot. This is what i wanted more than anything. So I really wanted to believe him. He also told me something about if a student had too many different instructors. It was seen to be really bad. He was my sixth instructor.
I first met the bastard when I went out to the airport to meet him. We went into the classroom there and he made me sit down on the opposite side of the room from him. He then told me that there was a lot of paperwork about how bad I was. He told me, not right out but it was pretty clear what he meant, that everyone hated me. He told me that in the aircraft I wasn’t allowed to say anything that wasn’t related to flying. He also told me not to try the girly tears thing! He asked me if I had any hobbies and told me I should do rock climbing. I am not sure what his thing with rock climbing is but he mentioned it more than once in the time that I knew him (I recently did some rockclimbing and broke a nail
). He also asked me if I could change the tire on a car. I told him that I could (I can’t drive a car but I can do that!) he then said that most academics couldn’t and suggested that I try changing a cars oil sometime! The bastard also told me off because I wasn’t wearing my uniform that day. My T-shirt did have a picture of a plane on it! 
The bastard told me that he had another job flying freight in a light twin at night. I think he thought of that as his real job. Whenever I didn’t like something he would point out that he was the one with the CPL!
The Bastard said that he would ask me questions (such as the airfoil shape of the flaps on the warrior). If I couldn’t answer it the first time it was ok but if I couldn’t answer it a second time I had to buy him a beer.
I flew with the bastard three times. I really didn’t like some of the things he did. Like when I was going to descend and he asked me if I wanted to go down fast or slow and then gave me an engine failure. I did not find that amusing.
I remember him not being happy one time because I wanted to refuel the plane. I did refuel it and if I hadn’t of well would have had to use the reserve fuel for the length of the flight we did. I heard stories about how he came back from flying with another student one time and they refueled the plane and actually managed to put in more fuel than the tanks were supposed to hold because they were that empty!
One time when we refueled the aircraft. The bastard was filling the tank. He overfilled it until the fuel overflowed the tank and ran over the wing. He did this on purpose! I still have no idea why. Seemed bloody stupid to me!
The other students didn’t like him either. They would claim to be sick if they were scheduled to fly with him. Or convince their usual instructor that they required a solo flight instead.
I admit that I was crap at flying. I did bad things when flying with the bastard. My last landing was truly terrible. I should have gone around. But I didn’t. I think the reason and this is really bad was that I just didn’t want to be anywhere near the bastard any longer!
The result was that I was kicked out of flight school. With the bastard saying that I would never be a professional pilot. I also heard stories about how he went around telling people how I was an unsafe pilot.
I now don’t fly. The only thing that I really wanted to do in my life. I am just an unemployed loser now
I first met the bastard when I went out to the airport to meet him. We went into the classroom there and he made me sit down on the opposite side of the room from him. He then told me that there was a lot of paperwork about how bad I was. He told me, not right out but it was pretty clear what he meant, that everyone hated me. He told me that in the aircraft I wasn’t allowed to say anything that wasn’t related to flying. He also told me not to try the girly tears thing! He asked me if I had any hobbies and told me I should do rock climbing. I am not sure what his thing with rock climbing is but he mentioned it more than once in the time that I knew him (I recently did some rockclimbing and broke a nail
). He also asked me if I could change the tire on a car. I told him that I could (I can’t drive a car but I can do that!) he then said that most academics couldn’t and suggested that I try changing a cars oil sometime! The bastard also told me off because I wasn’t wearing my uniform that day. My T-shirt did have a picture of a plane on it! The bastard told me that he had another job flying freight in a light twin at night. I think he thought of that as his real job. Whenever I didn’t like something he would point out that he was the one with the CPL!
The Bastard said that he would ask me questions (such as the airfoil shape of the flaps on the warrior). If I couldn’t answer it the first time it was ok but if I couldn’t answer it a second time I had to buy him a beer.
I flew with the bastard three times. I really didn’t like some of the things he did. Like when I was going to descend and he asked me if I wanted to go down fast or slow and then gave me an engine failure. I did not find that amusing.
I remember him not being happy one time because I wanted to refuel the plane. I did refuel it and if I hadn’t of well would have had to use the reserve fuel for the length of the flight we did. I heard stories about how he came back from flying with another student one time and they refueled the plane and actually managed to put in more fuel than the tanks were supposed to hold because they were that empty!
One time when we refueled the aircraft. The bastard was filling the tank. He overfilled it until the fuel overflowed the tank and ran over the wing. He did this on purpose! I still have no idea why. Seemed bloody stupid to me!
The other students didn’t like him either. They would claim to be sick if they were scheduled to fly with him. Or convince their usual instructor that they required a solo flight instead.
I admit that I was crap at flying. I did bad things when flying with the bastard. My last landing was truly terrible. I should have gone around. But I didn’t. I think the reason and this is really bad was that I just didn’t want to be anywhere near the bastard any longer!
The result was that I was kicked out of flight school. With the bastard saying that I would never be a professional pilot. I also heard stories about how he went around telling people how I was an unsafe pilot.
I now don’t fly. The only thing that I really wanted to do in my life. I am just an unemployed loser now