Is now the Time to start learning to Fly!!
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Is now the Time to start learning to Fly!!
Is now the a bad time to start on PPL and work through to ATPL?
Should this be done in UK or is US cheaper?
Words of wisdom welcomenull
Should this be done in UK or is US cheaper?
Words of wisdom welcomenull
Join Date: Mar 2001
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If I had to start my training now, I would do it. Once you get your PPL and ATPL this crisis may well be over and there'll probably be a huge demand for pilots...(I wish).
Whether you want to do your training in the US or Europe depends on where you want to live.
If you want to live and fly in Europe get the JAR license, but If you want and have the right to live/work in the US go for the FAA.
Good Luck
Rgds
LGL
edited for spelling
[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: LGL737 ]
Whether you want to do your training in the US or Europe depends on where you want to live.
If you want to live and fly in Europe get the JAR license, but If you want and have the right to live/work in the US go for the FAA.
Good Luck
Rgds
LGL
edited for spelling
[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: LGL737 ]
Perhaps it might be best to wait for 3 months. As the large colleges continue to graduate students into a frankly stagnant recruitment market more and more people will complete flying instructor ratings. This increase in supply will very probably drive down wages and make courses slightly cheaper. In addition you might well find that schools and FI's value your custom more highly as the chill winds of slowdown sweep through the industry.
Nothing stopping you getting hold of the books in the meantime and completing your studies thoroughly and taking a few of the exams.
Good luck,
WWW
Nothing stopping you getting hold of the books in the meantime and completing your studies thoroughly and taking a few of the exams.
Good luck,
WWW
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It is an excellent time to learn to fly.
Begin by calling all the big JAA PPL places in UK and USA, who advertise in Flyer and Pilot. Ask them how much it would cost for a complete course starting on a date to suit you. They must want customers NOW= good value for you but make sure you know what their price includes/excludes- accommodation, books, landing fees, night rating, R/t etc.
It must be the worst time for decades to embark on ATPL. Not only are job prospects bad but some places which rely on professional training will be disappearing with your money.
Begin by calling all the big JAA PPL places in UK and USA, who advertise in Flyer and Pilot. Ask them how much it would cost for a complete course starting on a date to suit you. They must want customers NOW= good value for you but make sure you know what their price includes/excludes- accommodation, books, landing fees, night rating, R/t etc.
It must be the worst time for decades to embark on ATPL. Not only are job prospects bad but some places which rely on professional training will be disappearing with your money.
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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Yeah...i'd go for it!
Nothing stopping you getting a PPL and some experiance, then maybe start the ATPL writtens as WWW says...by the time that stage is complete the market place maybe very different...
When the market does change i'm quite sure the pilot shortage will be worse than before due to the lack of training going on during the "slump" period.
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: JB007 ]
Nothing stopping you getting a PPL and some experiance, then maybe start the ATPL writtens as WWW says...by the time that stage is complete the market place maybe very different...
When the market does change i'm quite sure the pilot shortage will be worse than before due to the lack of training going on during the "slump" period.
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: JB007 ]
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You could try comming to Australia. Its flying as usual over here and with a conversion rate of .32p to the Au$1, a $45,000 course including cpl, mecir and atpl can be quite attractive.
Some schools also give caa(is that what you call your aviation authority?) endorsed courses so there will be no need for conversion.
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Bucky
Some schools also give caa(is that what you call your aviation authority?) endorsed courses so there will be no need for conversion.
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
Bucky
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There's always South Africa. With the lack of infrastructure in Africa aviation will always be in demand. A multi engine commercial ticket with instrument and instructor ratings would set you back about 13000 Sterling. The school in question also offers a 12 month employment contract as an instructor on completion. I've since moved on to bigger and better things but had a pretty good time getting qualified. The cost of living in SA is pretty good for those with foreign currency. Beer at 50p a bottle in restaurants is a pretty good start.
The crime and violence you hear about, while higher than that in Europe, is not really found in the smaller towns as much as in the major centres.
Unfortunately no JAA though...
The crime and violence you hear about, while higher than that in Europe, is not really found in the smaller towns as much as in the major centres.
Unfortunately no JAA though...
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EGDR
You'd need to pass the examinations for CPL which include the IR exams. Cost about 200 Sterling if you pass them all first go. Prep and check ride for CPL and MEIR in the region of 1200 Sterling if you're already rated multi engine. If not add another 400 Pounds. With the exchange rate being what it is you could probably slip enough change from that for your medical. Accomodation would have to be arranged but the bloke who runs the school has a large house with pool and barbecue area about 5 minutes from the airport. He usually puts students up at his place. Just hope you're not vegetarian and teetotal.
There's also a possibility you can validate your JAA licence by writing the Air Law and Procedures examination, getting a medical and doing a check ride with an examiner. Rough estimate around 700 Pounds.
Good luck...
You'd need to pass the examinations for CPL which include the IR exams. Cost about 200 Sterling if you pass them all first go. Prep and check ride for CPL and MEIR in the region of 1200 Sterling if you're already rated multi engine. If not add another 400 Pounds. With the exchange rate being what it is you could probably slip enough change from that for your medical. Accomodation would have to be arranged but the bloke who runs the school has a large house with pool and barbecue area about 5 minutes from the airport. He usually puts students up at his place. Just hope you're not vegetarian and teetotal.
There's also a possibility you can validate your JAA licence by writing the Air Law and Procedures examination, getting a medical and doing a check ride with an examiner. Rough estimate around 700 Pounds.
Good luck...
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I would have to agree with LGL737, he makes the most sense, i have also been thinking this for the past few days..
I am doing ppl and certainly this crisis wont stop me, + we have a big advantage as it seems soooo many people are putting of their training, DUMB idea as when this dies down the flight schools will be packed and getting a place will be limited, as many peeps are cancelling there course we will have more of teachers attention, therfore it may be a little easier to pass all those horrible ATPL's thoreys.
I am planning on doing the ATPL course @ sft in April, and NOTHING will stop me from forfilling my dream!!!!
I am doing ppl and certainly this crisis wont stop me, + we have a big advantage as it seems soooo many people are putting of their training, DUMB idea as when this dies down the flight schools will be packed and getting a place will be limited, as many peeps are cancelling there course we will have more of teachers attention, therfore it may be a little easier to pass all those horrible ATPL's thoreys.
I am planning on doing the ATPL course @ sft in April, and NOTHING will stop me from forfilling my dream!!!!
Food for thought - either way - can be found at:
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...c&f=2&t=011037
WWW
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimat...c&f=2&t=011037
WWW
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Go for it!
Hopefully by the time you have finished your training things will have improved. If you delay too long your own circumstances may prevent you from doing it.
Having done my training in the USA I would strongly recommend it, working over there however is a little different, they get very strict on employment.
One further piece of advice is to hold onto your money. Whether you go abroad or stay here, only give the school enough money for a months training in advance. They may get grumpy about this, but hold your ground. I have two friends who lost a lot of money when the school stopped trading with no advance warning, even though there were plenty of students. Good luck!
Hopefully by the time you have finished your training things will have improved. If you delay too long your own circumstances may prevent you from doing it.
Having done my training in the USA I would strongly recommend it, working over there however is a little different, they get very strict on employment.
One further piece of advice is to hold onto your money. Whether you go abroad or stay here, only give the school enough money for a months training in advance. They may get grumpy about this, but hold your ground. I have two friends who lost a lot of money when the school stopped trading with no advance warning, even though there were plenty of students. Good luck!
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Go for it Tim. Flying as a career isnīt the most rational choice but it if you love it then you have to try it. If it doesnīt pan out then those are the breaks but youīll never regret giving it your best shot.
YOu have to remember that it isnīt a decision for the head, itīs one for the heart.
YOu have to remember that it isnīt a decision for the head, itīs one for the heart.
I say there boy
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And just to add to what cardinal says, South Africa is an absolutely cracking place to fly - I did a load of hour building and multi-training there and I remember my time with fondness. Or should I say it is 'lekker'.
And what's more the wine is the best in the world IMHO.
cheers!
foggy
And what's more the wine is the best in the world IMHO.
cheers!
foggy
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message for www
i would just like to say, that you are not the doomsayer, your advice has always been very sound and realistic.
all i can infer from your posts are that you should just hold on a while and see how things develop and then committ yourself. theres nothing wrong with that and anyone who says otherwise is being unrealistic.
i have followed your posts from the beginning and i can say that your advice has always had our best interests at heart.
im not ass licking and i know that many people feel the same, and it was perhaps time you were effort was appreciated.
kind regards
PH
i would just like to say, that you are not the doomsayer, your advice has always been very sound and realistic.
all i can infer from your posts are that you should just hold on a while and see how things develop and then committ yourself. theres nothing wrong with that and anyone who says otherwise is being unrealistic.
i have followed your posts from the beginning and i can say that your advice has always had our best interests at heart.
im not ass licking and i know that many people feel the same, and it was perhaps time you were effort was appreciated.
kind regards
PH
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TimD,
Lets look at the facts.
The airline industry is about to go into global meltdown.
The airlines are said to be announcing redundancys this week in addition to the 38% cut in flight deck at virgin albeit 70 of which engineers.
All carriers have frozen recruitment and oversupply of 3-4000 hours looms.
Am I sounding pessimistic?
The truth is only a crazy person is going to get a second mortgage based on this market. However there is a possible upside:-
If the americans start flying again, the long haul carriers may again pick up.
If they dont for a long time (6-8 months) the other 450 virgin pilots will probably end up on the market within a year.
If another incident happens in the next few months. Flying will not be a good career choice!
Only someone who can afford to be out of work for 4 to 5 years afterwards as I was after my ATPLs should go for it in present conditions. At least give it a few months to see the aftermath settle down.
Good Luck.
Lets look at the facts.
The airline industry is about to go into global meltdown.
The airlines are said to be announcing redundancys this week in addition to the 38% cut in flight deck at virgin albeit 70 of which engineers.
All carriers have frozen recruitment and oversupply of 3-4000 hours looms.
Am I sounding pessimistic?
The truth is only a crazy person is going to get a second mortgage based on this market. However there is a possible upside:-
If the americans start flying again, the long haul carriers may again pick up.
If they dont for a long time (6-8 months) the other 450 virgin pilots will probably end up on the market within a year.
If another incident happens in the next few months. Flying will not be a good career choice!
Only someone who can afford to be out of work for 4 to 5 years afterwards as I was after my ATPLs should go for it in present conditions. At least give it a few months to see the aftermath settle down.
Good Luck.
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Gumshoe,
from your post, I'd guess you are a recent Virgin Sun A320 recruit who is unlikely to survive Virgin's current cull. I'm really sorry if that's the case, and I hope things turn out well for you. As a Classic pilot at VS I may very well be in the same position. However, I question some of your assumptions.
The global airline industry is not in meltdown. It is going through a very intense period of readjustment after the WTC event, much of which would have been necessary in the near future anyway due to the cyclical downturn the industry was, and is still, experiencing. This downturn shows no real signs of being worse than (or even as bad as) the 87-94 recession, and the travelling public's memory is short, as the Gulf War proved.
Even should the Americans boycott international air travel for an extended period (say, more than 6 months), I don't agree with your contention that Virgin would go under. Prior to the current restructuring process, VS was 60% dependent on the North Atlantic traffic. After this process, the proportion will be more like 35% and could be reduced further - or, more likely, increased again. Loads to the rest of the VS destinations are good, and I've no doubt that some aggressive marketing will improve them. Significantly, VS has no Middle East destinations! VS also seems to have a good debt vs capital situation, and a fairly efficient operation when compared to other international lines.
So, while you (and I) may be feeling pretty sore at the moment, there is no obvious reason to predict the end of airtravel as we know it, or the end of Virgin.
Everyone should calm down, watch what happens, and make rational judgements on their future when the dust has settled somewhat.
from your post, I'd guess you are a recent Virgin Sun A320 recruit who is unlikely to survive Virgin's current cull. I'm really sorry if that's the case, and I hope things turn out well for you. As a Classic pilot at VS I may very well be in the same position. However, I question some of your assumptions.
The global airline industry is not in meltdown. It is going through a very intense period of readjustment after the WTC event, much of which would have been necessary in the near future anyway due to the cyclical downturn the industry was, and is still, experiencing. This downturn shows no real signs of being worse than (or even as bad as) the 87-94 recession, and the travelling public's memory is short, as the Gulf War proved.
Even should the Americans boycott international air travel for an extended period (say, more than 6 months), I don't agree with your contention that Virgin would go under. Prior to the current restructuring process, VS was 60% dependent on the North Atlantic traffic. After this process, the proportion will be more like 35% and could be reduced further - or, more likely, increased again. Loads to the rest of the VS destinations are good, and I've no doubt that some aggressive marketing will improve them. Significantly, VS has no Middle East destinations! VS also seems to have a good debt vs capital situation, and a fairly efficient operation when compared to other international lines.
So, while you (and I) may be feeling pretty sore at the moment, there is no obvious reason to predict the end of airtravel as we know it, or the end of Virgin.
Everyone should calm down, watch what happens, and make rational judgements on their future when the dust has settled somewhat.
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i agree with gumshoe. Its already difficult in a normal market. This hopeless to start training in the current market if you expect a job. You will compete with 4000 hours jet captains. Believe me there is no way you can get their experience with the exception of the forces.
But the airlines are currently probably in their worst recession for 20 years.
Many MAJOR world airlines are on the brink of financial collapse (among others due to insurance premiums). Many companies were already in financial dire straits. The 11th of september will have long-term effects on aviation : security, insurance,...
Security does not come for free.
But the airlines are currently probably in their worst recession for 20 years.
Many MAJOR world airlines are on the brink of financial collapse (among others due to insurance premiums). Many companies were already in financial dire straits. The 11th of september will have long-term effects on aviation : security, insurance,...
Security does not come for free.
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Let's not forget the way this thread started - the guy was considering starting out! Anyone starting now will not be qualified for over a year, probably two. No-one on this forum can predict what the industry will be like then. In fact, to take the optimistic view, looking at past history of downturns in the industry, anyone starting out right now will be in an excellent position when they finish, because that's when the airlines will realise they need pilots!
Notwithstanding that view, no-one really knows - so go with the heart. If you want to do it, do it!
Notwithstanding that view, no-one really knows - so go with the heart. If you want to do it, do it!