Should I get a Frozen ATPL?
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Join Date: Sep 2002
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Should I get a Frozen ATPL?
Fellow Pilots:
I am a dual citizen (U.S. and Italy) with an F.A.A. CPL with Instrument and Multi Engine ratings, and a 4-year university degree. I am currently flight instructing to gain time for the airlines.
Very recently, I started to inquire about getting the JAA Frozen ATPL, for which I am now elegible. To sit all exams and take all flight tests (including the 15-hour IR to be done in the U.K.)it would set me back roughly $10,000 to $13,000.
I am wondering if this would be worth doing, given the current state of things. How is the current market in Europe? Are most companies still hiring? If so, does anyone know of the average hours people are actually getting in with? I read the webpage a few posts down from this one. It was very informative as to published minima. The market obviously stinks here! It is too saturated for a lil' ol' 850-hour pilot like myself. Regionals here are hiring with at least 1500 hours on average.
I hear that an internal recommendation is very important in Europe... even moreso than in the U.S. (and here it's pretty darn important). Any comments?
In short.... what do you think my chances would be?
Any advice would be appreciated!
I am a dual citizen (U.S. and Italy) with an F.A.A. CPL with Instrument and Multi Engine ratings, and a 4-year university degree. I am currently flight instructing to gain time for the airlines.
Very recently, I started to inquire about getting the JAA Frozen ATPL, for which I am now elegible. To sit all exams and take all flight tests (including the 15-hour IR to be done in the U.K.)it would set me back roughly $10,000 to $13,000.
I am wondering if this would be worth doing, given the current state of things. How is the current market in Europe? Are most companies still hiring? If so, does anyone know of the average hours people are actually getting in with? I read the webpage a few posts down from this one. It was very informative as to published minima. The market obviously stinks here! It is too saturated for a lil' ol' 850-hour pilot like myself. Regionals here are hiring with at least 1500 hours on average.
I hear that an internal recommendation is very important in Europe... even moreso than in the U.S. (and here it's pretty darn important). Any comments?
In short.... what do you think my chances would be?
Any advice would be appreciated!
I say there boy
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Since September 11th 2001, the only significant hiring that has been taking place in the UK, and possibly the whole of Europe, has been type-rated pilots with jet experience.
Except in a few special cases has been very very little if any hiring of pilots with low hours or only piston/instructing hours.
Once you'd converted, you'd be joining a very long queue of people hunting for an airline job here in Europe. The schools didn't stop training on September 11th, but the airlines stopped hiring and made a lot of pilots redundant. In the UK alone it is estimated that 1,000 pilot jobs were done away with in the immediate aftermath of September 11th. This has caused a big backlog of pilots of all experience levels, as all those airline-experienced pilots are first in line to be re-hired.
Things are now moving again, but it will take time to clear the backlog and get back to the 'golden years' of early 2001 when it is thought that there was the closest to a pilots shortage that there has been for many a year.
I'm not sure if things are as bad here as they are are in the US, however it may be beneficial to stay there for any upturn in the airline market rather than pay a large amount to convert your licences to JAR just to be at the back of the queue again.
Youir figures look a little on the low side also - maybe someone who has converted recently can comment? I think £10,000 excluding living costs is a fair budget - this is over US$15,500. This excludes the MCC which is pretty much necessary for an airline job those days - add another US$3,000 for this.
Best of luck whatever you choose.
cheers!
foggy.
Except in a few special cases has been very very little if any hiring of pilots with low hours or only piston/instructing hours.
Once you'd converted, you'd be joining a very long queue of people hunting for an airline job here in Europe. The schools didn't stop training on September 11th, but the airlines stopped hiring and made a lot of pilots redundant. In the UK alone it is estimated that 1,000 pilot jobs were done away with in the immediate aftermath of September 11th. This has caused a big backlog of pilots of all experience levels, as all those airline-experienced pilots are first in line to be re-hired.
Things are now moving again, but it will take time to clear the backlog and get back to the 'golden years' of early 2001 when it is thought that there was the closest to a pilots shortage that there has been for many a year.
I'm not sure if things are as bad here as they are are in the US, however it may be beneficial to stay there for any upturn in the airline market rather than pay a large amount to convert your licences to JAR just to be at the back of the queue again.
Youir figures look a little on the low side also - maybe someone who has converted recently can comment? I think £10,000 excluding living costs is a fair budget - this is over US$15,500. This excludes the MCC which is pretty much necessary for an airline job those days - add another US$3,000 for this.
Best of luck whatever you choose.
cheers!
foggy.
Last edited by foghorn; 21st Sep 2002 at 09:29.
