I`m 33....Should I go for ATPL now
Jet Blast Rat
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I suggest you take up with Flight International if you, in your great expertise of a holder of a frozen ATPL believe they are publishing "bull****", though I'm not sure why you think they would market my industry for free - we usually pay them. I can't see how you can from the perspective of 2002 and no research into the industry predict that there will be no pilot shortage in 2004, but I am sure that the airlines will find your insight vital to their future planning. Please don't let them waste money planning for a pilot shortage that you know is not coming.
Best of luck getting a job.
P.S. I am sure you would know when I ridicule myself. It is generally on Jet Blast, where most of us do so and where your foul language and belligerant attitude would not be so out of place, nor so tolerated as they have been here.
Best of luck getting a job.
P.S. I am sure you would know when I ridicule myself. It is generally on Jet Blast, where most of us do so and where your foul language and belligerant attitude would not be so out of place, nor so tolerated as they have been here.
Last edited by Send Clowns; 21st Sep 2002 at 10:24.
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I am curious piperindian
If its such a waste of time why did you bother obtaining it (job perphaps?),you could have saved alot of cash and time.
I know of a few mates who landed a job and quiet recently and last time I checked they needed that "useless piece of crap".
Your obviously relying on you positive happy-go-lucky attitude to land a job,Can you say "Tea or Coffee"?, cos thats all you be doing with that attitude. Are you going to bin that license and continue to point out the error of so many wannabes ways, and continue to make ridiculously immature statements, you are probably better off trying something different, as this is deffinately not the career for you if you can form such a bitter attitiude after some hurdles in your career.
Good luck to you, and change that nappy
Come on let me have it.
If its such a waste of time why did you bother obtaining it (job perphaps?),you could have saved alot of cash and time.
I know of a few mates who landed a job and quiet recently and last time I checked they needed that "useless piece of crap".
Your obviously relying on you positive happy-go-lucky attitude to land a job,Can you say "Tea or Coffee"?, cos thats all you be doing with that attitude. Are you going to bin that license and continue to point out the error of so many wannabes ways, and continue to make ridiculously immature statements, you are probably better off trying something different, as this is deffinately not the career for you if you can form such a bitter attitiude after some hurdles in your career.
Good luck to you, and change that nappy
Come on let me have it.
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i'm 23 and just signed up for an integrated ATPL course....guess what...i personally feel very old cos ...i know there r some 18 and 19 years old co pilot who's enjoying their job in one of the regionals in uk..!!!
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Hello Apple - I started an integrated course back in 1998 and there were people of all ages attending. The ages of people who secured airline emlployment rapidly was quite diverse, the youngest 20, the oldest in his mid 30's. I don't think your age is a problem.
One suggestion I have is to attend the PPRuNe Seminar on 13/12/02. I think it would be worth your while to get advice from people who know what is going on and can evaluate you face to face - you will feel more confident with whatever decision you make then.
All the best
PS For what it's worth, I've never regretted undertaking my flying course, loved every moment from the first flight to a pass after the dreaded IRT.
One suggestion I have is to attend the PPRuNe Seminar on 13/12/02. I think it would be worth your while to get advice from people who know what is going on and can evaluate you face to face - you will feel more confident with whatever decision you make then.
All the best
PS For what it's worth, I've never regretted undertaking my flying course, loved every moment from the first flight to a pass after the dreaded IRT.
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Piperindian
Brand new ATPL piece of c!£p, dont think so, not going to get far without one.
I'm 40 now and through sheer hard work and determination have secured some part time instructing at weekends, 20 hrs flying in 9 days and getting paid as well !! think I'm on my way how about you.
Any one else want any info mail me will be happy to oblige.
Send Clowns thanks. Will speak to you in the week, have need of that reference now.
Andrew H
Brand new ATPL piece of c!£p, dont think so, not going to get far without one.
I'm 40 now and through sheer hard work and determination have secured some part time instructing at weekends, 20 hrs flying in 9 days and getting paid as well !! think I'm on my way how about you.
Any one else want any info mail me will be happy to oblige.
Send Clowns thanks. Will speak to you in the week, have need of that reference now.
Andrew H
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Just to add my tuppence worth:
I started flying at 30, went modular, it took a little longer than I expected but you have to factor this sort of thing in.
Four and a half years after starting, and 18 months after I got my FATPL/IR (JAA), I joined my first airline, had six months of flying a 737 now and loving it!!
It can be done.
I started flying at 30, went modular, it took a little longer than I expected but you have to factor this sort of thing in.
Four and a half years after starting, and 18 months after I got my FATPL/IR (JAA), I joined my first airline, had six months of flying a 737 now and loving it!!
It can be done.
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I started at 33 with a wife child and mortgage. I did the integrated course because as people have already stated, the clock was ticking...
It took me 15 months to get through the course and I was lucky enough to get a jet job pretty much immediatly after finishing. I am now 36 and have close on 1500 hrs and the best job I had ever had.
At 33 you are not too old but dont hang about!! I would do the integrated route if you can afford it since it is quicker and you will be younger when you reach the job market. Another reason is that like it or not airlines prefer the integrated to modular student, right or wrong it is a fact.
If you do a search under my name you will find the story of my training etc
Good luck to you....
It took me 15 months to get through the course and I was lucky enough to get a jet job pretty much immediatly after finishing. I am now 36 and have close on 1500 hrs and the best job I had ever had.
At 33 you are not too old but dont hang about!! I would do the integrated route if you can afford it since it is quicker and you will be younger when you reach the job market. Another reason is that like it or not airlines prefer the integrated to modular student, right or wrong it is a fact.
If you do a search under my name you will find the story of my training etc
Good luck to you....
Jet Blast Rat
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Flying Farmer
Excellent news Andy! I'll mention that you need a reference right away, They'll be fighting to recommend you (scrub that - I'll write it and get Andy W to sign it. He'd write you a glowing reference but it would be at least two pages!). Well done.
Batty
The integrated route is not necessarily quicker. Had I not had a five-week illness I would have finished in 14 months. Had I not had my CPL over the winter, delayed by bad weather that would have been down to about 12 months, two weeks longer than the integrated minimum.
pi
Look to my first reply to your odious bile. I pointed out I am not an expert, and that I had only been passing on FI opinion. If you know better then surely you have a great future as an industry forecaster?
Excellent news Andy! I'll mention that you need a reference right away, They'll be fighting to recommend you (scrub that - I'll write it and get Andy W to sign it. He'd write you a glowing reference but it would be at least two pages!). Well done.
Batty
The integrated route is not necessarily quicker. Had I not had a five-week illness I would have finished in 14 months. Had I not had my CPL over the winter, delayed by bad weather that would have been down to about 12 months, two weeks longer than the integrated minimum.
pi
Look to my first reply to your odious bile. I pointed out I am not an expert, and that I had only been passing on FI opinion. If you know better then surely you have a great future as an industry forecaster?
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Disregard Piperindian. I have an unfrozen ATPL despite his rantings.
I would also be careful of thinking that airlines 'prefer' integrated courses(Batty), who does? It's supply and demand and as far as I'm aware they select you based on;
1. Who do you know?
2. How many hours do you have on type?
3. How many hours do you have on 'big' jets?
4. How many hours do you have on jets?
5. How many hours do you have on turbo-props?
6. How many hours do you have on twins?
7. How many hours do you have on singles?
How you got the licence is 'interview conversation' if you have low hours. What they really want to hear is about your Determination, Reliability and Flexibility.
If you still want to do it then do it. Be determined as it isn't easy, but don't think that any airline owes you jack sh!t. They are not interested in Piperindian sob stories..........................
Be lucky
PP
I would also be careful of thinking that airlines 'prefer' integrated courses(Batty), who does? It's supply and demand and as far as I'm aware they select you based on;
1. Who do you know?
2. How many hours do you have on type?
3. How many hours do you have on 'big' jets?
4. How many hours do you have on jets?
5. How many hours do you have on turbo-props?
6. How many hours do you have on twins?
7. How many hours do you have on singles?
How you got the licence is 'interview conversation' if you have low hours. What they really want to hear is about your Determination, Reliability and Flexibility.
If you still want to do it then do it. Be determined as it isn't easy, but don't think that any airline owes you jack sh!t. They are not interested in Piperindian sob stories..........................
Be lucky
PP
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Get a class one medical first and do a modular course and keep your day job. Its hard work in your sparetime but there is less risk overall. You can lose your class one at any time and the risk increases with age.
Its true the forecast is that there will more jobs available by 2004 however I'm not convinced that there will actually be a shortage of fATPL's.
I started at your age and even if I dont get to fly the A380 I can carry on as a flying instructor long into retirement as long as I keep passing the medical. Which was always my minimum expectation.
TTFN
MJR
Its true the forecast is that there will more jobs available by 2004 however I'm not convinced that there will actually be a shortage of fATPL's.
I started at your age and even if I dont get to fly the A380 I can carry on as a flying instructor long into retirement as long as I keep passing the medical. Which was always my minimum expectation.
TTFNMJR
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Good luck Apple! Don’t let anyone put you off if this is truly what you want to do but, ironically, you must keep your feet on the ground. Of course, getting the licence may be the second most expensive purchase you ever make but I still maintain that I would rather have the licence than a porshe sitting outside my house.
I took the decision to leave a well paid job about 18 months ago to work through the JAA fATPL the Modular route. I simply felt that I had to give my ambition a chance before I got 'too old'.
I've just turned 31, its taken me a year or so to get through the ATPL writtens. I have had several disappointing and somewhat unlucky results along the way. DO NOT underestimate the exams, especially if you have been out of study for a while!
I would recommend doing it piecemeal (modular) simply because it keeps your options open. If you have a PPL and the written exams you are well set to make a decision either way on the flying tests necessary to complete the fATPL, in short, the expensive part or you could choose to stay put.
Incidentally, I have been reassured that many airlines may prefer a more worldly-wise pilot in the right hand seat. I, personally, am totally committed now to a future in commercial aviation – it can be tough, but I’m looking forward to getting my chance some day soon. It certainly takes a lot of determination. But if you are positive, enthusiastic and personable why wouldn’t the airlines want to employ you?
I took the decision to leave a well paid job about 18 months ago to work through the JAA fATPL the Modular route. I simply felt that I had to give my ambition a chance before I got 'too old'.
I've just turned 31, its taken me a year or so to get through the ATPL writtens. I have had several disappointing and somewhat unlucky results along the way. DO NOT underestimate the exams, especially if you have been out of study for a while!
I would recommend doing it piecemeal (modular) simply because it keeps your options open. If you have a PPL and the written exams you are well set to make a decision either way on the flying tests necessary to complete the fATPL, in short, the expensive part or you could choose to stay put.
Incidentally, I have been reassured that many airlines may prefer a more worldly-wise pilot in the right hand seat. I, personally, am totally committed now to a future in commercial aviation – it can be tough, but I’m looking forward to getting my chance some day soon. It certainly takes a lot of determination. But if you are positive, enthusiastic and personable why wouldn’t the airlines want to employ you?
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P Pete who prefers an integrated to modular FATPL?
Well at the moment Ryanair for a start, they are one of the few airlines hiring low airtime pilots at the moment and they are approaching schools such as Oxford and Shrienner (sorry about the spelling!!) looking for integrated students. That was howw I got my job. They are not approaching new FATPL pilots.
BA a while back were thinking of looking at integrated students from Oxford who had been recommended by the school.
I am not saying that you will have an easy time getting a job as an integrated student but I do believe it may be slightly easier than the modular route.
Dont take me wrong I dont think that I am any better than a modular student however airlines will continue to favour the integrated over the modular because they know the schools involved and have experience of the training standards set by the schools. Its a fact like it or not.
Well at the moment Ryanair for a start, they are one of the few airlines hiring low airtime pilots at the moment and they are approaching schools such as Oxford and Shrienner (sorry about the spelling!!) looking for integrated students. That was howw I got my job. They are not approaching new FATPL pilots.
BA a while back were thinking of looking at integrated students from Oxford who had been recommended by the school.
I am not saying that you will have an easy time getting a job as an integrated student but I do believe it may be slightly easier than the modular route.
Dont take me wrong I dont think that I am any better than a modular student however airlines will continue to favour the integrated over the modular because they know the schools involved and have experience of the training standards set by the schools. Its a fact like it or not.
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I take your point about Ryanair and BA, but let's face it they have taken and still will take plenty of guys and girls who did not do integrated courses. They are two airlines out of 50ish carriers in the UK. I agree that one may get some post course assistance from the integrated schools, but I must admit that I would feel that that has to be looked at as a bonus when considering one's training route rather than a given. In the end, whichever route you take you end up with the same licence and making contacts within the industry during your training is the best way of hearing about jobs and getting your cv looked at.
Good luck to you all, whichever way you go.
PP
ps. To Piperindian,
At no point did I suggest that anyone gaining a licence in the recent past or present was finding it easy to get jobs. I personally don't think modular or integrated students stand much chance of securing a job with low hours for some time to come and war in the Gulf will only make things worse. Even when the market is good for hiring it is not easy to get a first break with low hours. The point is that guys who are starting training now will be gambling just the same as anyone else has in the past. Perhaps you were the one who went down the road of spending an awful lot of money without knowing all the facts. You have no-one to blame except yourself for giving up, life is full of 'downturns' just when you don't need them, but happily for those who come through it keeping positive and making it happen they will eventually succeed. It just takes longer than desired and proves that they are the best. So at least one less bitter and twisted frozen ATPL holder acting as competition for the winners!! Good luck to the rest of you, but don't give up the day job just yet.
Good luck to you all, whichever way you go.
PP
ps. To Piperindian,
At no point did I suggest that anyone gaining a licence in the recent past or present was finding it easy to get jobs. I personally don't think modular or integrated students stand much chance of securing a job with low hours for some time to come and war in the Gulf will only make things worse. Even when the market is good for hiring it is not easy to get a first break with low hours. The point is that guys who are starting training now will be gambling just the same as anyone else has in the past. Perhaps you were the one who went down the road of spending an awful lot of money without knowing all the facts. You have no-one to blame except yourself for giving up, life is full of 'downturns' just when you don't need them, but happily for those who come through it keeping positive and making it happen they will eventually succeed. It just takes longer than desired and proves that they are the best. So at least one less bitter and twisted frozen ATPL holder acting as competition for the winners!! Good luck to the rest of you, but don't give up the day job just yet.
Last edited by Pilot Pete; 23rd Sep 2002 at 20:24.
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Go for it mate ....... 1960's was a good time to be born.....just !
Send clowns - keep it up mate
Pilot Pete - Thanks to the top advice yet again !!!
Pipertwat......go away mate your very very very zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Send clowns - keep it up mate
Pilot Pete - Thanks to the top advice yet again !!!
Pipertwat......go away mate your very very very zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Don't listen to piperpillock - I gave up my job in 1990 to get my CPL: then there was the Gulf war, then Air Europe went bust, then Dan-Air, then there was a recession. They seemed like dark days but I got my first turboprop job in 1994 and have enjoyed flying the 737 and A320 since then. It was still the best move I ever made and I certainly wouldn't like to be sitting in an office now, looking out of the window thinking ''I wish I'd ...........''
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I'm 31 and have decided to start an integrated course in about 12 months time (next Oct). I have lots of options open, but due to my age, the age when I will 'graduate' I feel the integrated option is more suitable for me. I already have a PPL, night and IMC, but feel the integrated course will be the added bonus for me. I've been out of Uni for a long time, and want the atmosphere of the integrated course to get me through.
I will tag on an instructors course at the end, and fully expect to be a instructor for more than 12 months, but should then have reached something in the region of 800 hrs in order to get my first flying job (which will be when I'm about 34/35). That's 20 years for the career.
I will tag on an instructors course at the end, and fully expect to be a instructor for more than 12 months, but should then have reached something in the region of 800 hrs in order to get my first flying job (which will be when I'm about 34/35). That's 20 years for the career.