Medical - Class 1 - CAA or EASA

[tobster911]

Hi there,
I currently hold a UK PPL (obtained in November 2016). I want to go down the commercial route, and am looking to book my class 1 medical. I don't know whether to go for just the CAA, or do a combined CAA and EASA one.
What is the recommendation please?
Thank you
R

[Jayman]

I’m also interested in an answer to this. From my research so far, it seems to depend on if you will obtain a CAA or dual EASA license.

[rudestuff]

Isn't it obvious? If you intend to get a CAA licence you need a CAA Medical. If you intend to get an EASA licence you need an EASA medical. If you intend to get both then get both.

Which licence you get depends largely on what's written on your passport and where you are allowed to work. If you're British you should get a CAA licence or maybe both. If you're European you should get an EASA licence or maybe both.

If you want to get the 'other' licence only (ie: you're a Brit wanting only an EASA licence) then you'd better have a good reason like a job lined up.

[JustOneMoreQuestion.]

So, yes, it should be easy, but it’s not. I am a UK national, and want the option to fly for any UK based airline, such as Jet2, but also maybe some Irish carriers, such as Ryanair.

I also want to complete some of my training, namely CPL ME IR in Europe to keep costs down. If I study for my CAA ATPLs and do my CAA licence, then find I need an EASA licence to get a job, I’ll be, rightly, quite peeved.

[AdamSt205]

Originally Posted by JustOneMoreQuestion.

So, yes, it should be easy, but it’s not. I am a UK national, and want the option to fly for any UK based airline, such as Jet2, but also maybe some Irish carriers, such as Ryanair.

I also want to complete some of my training, namely CPL ME IR in Europe to keep costs down. If I study for my CAA ATPLs and do my CAA licence, then find I need an EASA licence to get a job, I’ll be, rightly, quite peeved.

It is very easy. If you are going to do your CPL ME/IR in Europe then you are going to be doing an EASA licence so you will need EASA medical and EASA ATPL theory.

You cannot do CAA ATPL theory and do your CPL ME/IR in a EASA state.

You can however do both at once which is a rounding error in your training. 2x medical. 2x ATPL and a conversion either in UK or EASA depending where you did your original CPL ME/IR.

[Zippo1997]

Originally Posted by AdamSt205

It is very easy. If you are going to do your CPL ME/IR in Europe then you are going to be doing an EASA licence so you will need EASA medical and EASA ATPL theory.

You cannot do CAA ATPL theory and do your CPL ME/IR in a EASA state.

You can however do both at once which is a rounding error in your training. 2x medical. 2x ATPL and a conversion either in UK or EASA depending where you did your original CPL ME/IR.

How practical is this if you study at an EASA approved school in Europe (e.g. Bartolini) which does NOT have CAA accreditation? Could you enroll at BGS to do your CAA ATPL theory exams while training and studying at a European school, and then just pay for the relevant skills tests later down the line also?

[rudestuff]

You could but there are time and budget issues. If you do both sets of exams at the same time (study once for both) you then have to pass both flight tests within the following 36 months which with the associated training will cost a lot. You'll also only need one of those licences for your first job, so you're paying extra for a licence you don't need and may never use. On the other hand, If you only get one licence (and a job) then once you hit the minimum flight hours you you could get both ATPLs issued at the same time with one sim check paid for by your company. The irony is that converting a CPL/IR costs a fortune but converting an ATPL is the cheapest and easiest conversion you'll ever do. Personally in that situation I would get both medicals and take both sets of exams simultaneously. Its minimum investment and effort (a couple of thousand). Then I would spend 3 months to get one licence and spend 9 months trying to get a job. At the end of that if I felt I needed the other licence I would still have 2 years remaining on the exams to develop a plan B. You may even find having a UK licence with EASA ATPL credits on your CV useful (or vice versa).

[Zippo1997]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

You could but there are time and budget issues. If you do both sets of exams at the same time (study once for both) you then have to pass both flight tests within the following 36 months which with the associated training will cost a lot. You'll also only need one of those licences for your first job, so you're paying extra for a licence you don't need and may never use. On the other hand, If you only get one licence (and a job) then once you hit the minimum flight hours you you could get both ATPLs issued at the same time with one sim check paid for by your company. The irony is that converting a CPL/IR costs a fortune but converting an ATPL is the cheapest and easiest conversion you'll ever do. Personally in that situation I would get both medicals and take both sets of exams simultaneously. Its minimum investment and effort (a couple of thousand). Then I would spend 3 months to get one licence and spend 9 months trying to get a job. At the end of that if I felt I needed the other licence I would still have 2 years remaining on the exams to develop a plan B. You may even find having a UK licence with EASA ATPL credits on your CV useful (or vice versa).

Thanks rudestuff - you are a fountain of knowledge and insight on this forum and it is much appreciated!

Apologies if these are silly questions, but why would doing both flight tests cost so much and what do you mean by the "associated training"?

My understanding was that to become dual licensed you'd just need to do both sets of ATPL exams, get a Class 1 medical, and do both sets of skills tests. If training in Europe, is it not possible to just book a UK CAA skills test with a provider in the UK? Again, sorry if this is a silly question and greatly appreciate the recommended strategy.

[AdamSt205]

Originally Posted by Zippo1997

How practical is this if you study at an EASA approved school in Europe (e.g. Bartolini) which does NOT have CAA accreditation? Could you enroll at BGS to do your CAA ATPL theory exams while training and studying at a European school, and then just pay for the relevant skills tests later down the line also?

As echoed above. Get both medicals and do both ATPL. BGS offer dual theory. Through BGS you book one week to do CAA exams and the next week you do EASA exams. The cost of a dual medical is £250ish extra a year and the cost of doing the extra theory tests is £1200 so only an extra £1500 all in then once you get to the point to do your CPL ME/IR you can decide what to do.

[tobster911]

Thank you, that's the plan then. Got my medical (CAA and EASA) booked for in a fortnight. As long as I pass that, which I really hope I will, I'll get to work studying ATPLs and building some hours. Once I reach the magic 150, enrol full time in an ATPL course, then the plan is to go to Bartolini on the Ryanair Gateway 1, obtain EASA CPL ME IR and get a job.

Just out of interest, hypothetically, I fly on an EASA (f)ATPL for a couple of years, build up my 1500 hours etc etc to get it unfrozen, it becomes a standard EASA ATPL. How does that then get converted to a CAA ATPL should I wish to fly for another airline?

Thanks in advance

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by Zippo1997

what do you mean by the "associated training"?... My understanding was that to become dual licensed you'd just need to do both sets of ATPL exams, get a Class 1 medical, and do both sets of skills tests. If training in Europe, is it not possible to just book a UK CAA skills test with a provider in the UK?

You'll need to do a full CPL course and a full IR course for your first licence. Any second licence will require the tests, which likely will require a sign off from an ATO - You'll certainly need to rent their airplane for starters. They'll likely want to do an assessment flight and if they deem it necessary, additional training. They're in thy business of making money after all.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by tobster911

Just out of interest, hypothetically, I fly on an EASA (f)ATPL for a couple of years, build up my 1500 hours etc etc to get it unfrozen, it becomes a standard EASA ATPL. How does that then get converted to a CAA ATPL should I wish to fly for another airline?

Assuming you have valid ATPL theory credits, getting an ATPL requires meeting the experience requirements and passing an ATPL Skill test in a simulator. Its a much simpler process than converting a CPL/IR . You'll have an airline job at this point and be doing an LPC every 6 months at company expense. An ATPL skills test an LPC plus a raw data ILS. If the examiner and the simulator are both approved by both the CAA and EASA then you can do both at once - one test with two sets of paperwork.