How are people getting modular so cheap!??

[bitcoin]

Good evening everybody, I'm looking for modular courses, but I don't get how people are claiming that they can get an fATPL the modular route for £60,000! I'm based in the UK by the way, but this was my plan:

- Get a PPL including hour building packages about $15k, around £12660, (I haven't been quoted hour building package but let's assume the upper quartile of £200 per hour to factor in instructor costs, so around £15-20k to build hours)
NOT including accommodation
- Go for a CPL/IR course (about £35,000 for the SE/ME CPL/IR including full board accommodation.
- Go for a UPRT course (about £2100)
- Go for an APS MCC (about £8300 including food and accommodation)
So the price is £73,000 NOT including accommodation at PPL location, which is considerably cheaper than any integrated course, but how are people claiming that you can get the ATPL via modular route at "half the price"!??

[rudestuff]

Because based on your plan you don't fully understand how modular works. Sub-£50k is entirely possible using current UK prices.

Following the plan that you (and the other 90% - you're not alone!) intend to follow is so stuctured, unimaginative and obvious it's more like a build-your-own integrated course. It makes use of none of the advantages that the modular system gives you. I won't bother repeating myself here, but click on my other posts and you'll see a breakdown and explanation what I consider to be the optimum modular route.

[bitcoin]

ppl

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Because you clearly don't understand how modular works. Sub-£50k is entirely possible using current UK prices.

That's why I'm asking. The PPL + hours take up so much, and I don't know where to get cheaper prices, for them. The MCC and CPL/IR prices seem ok, but the PPL prices are nowhere near the other modular thread posts!

[LCpl_Ghostrider]

Originally Posted by bitcoin

Good evening everybody, I'm looking for modular courses, but I don't get how people are claiming that they can get an fATPL the modular route for £60,000! I'm based in the UK by the way, but this was my plan:

- Get a PPL including hour building packages about $15k, around £12660, (I haven't been quoted hour building package but let's assume the upper quartile of £200 per hour to factor in instructor costs, so around £15-20k to build hours)
NOT including accommodation
- Go for a CPL/IR course (about £35,000 for the SE/ME CPL/IR including full board accommodation.
- Go for a UPRT course (about £2100)
- Go for an APS MCC (about £8300 including food and accommodation)
So the price is £73,000 NOT including accommodation at PPL location, which is considerably cheaper than any integrated course, but how are people claiming that you can get the ATPL via modular route at "half the price"!??

Join the Army/RAF Reserves, utilise service flying clubs which are subsidised by the crown and also top rate CFIs (as most fly on the frontline for the RAF), utilise military accommodation whilst on more advanced stages of flying training as you are allowed to.

Also look at sponsorships, Wingly, Hr building in the US (I have found C150s for £75 p/h wet and DA-40s for £150 p/h wet) and pursue the CBIR SEP IR by undertaking the IR R and flying IFR outside of Class A. Once you have to the SEP IR convert to MEIR.

Keep hustling, connecting dots and researching! Google is your friend.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by bitcoin

CPL/IR prices seem ok

This is your problem. Read the post above 👆. You need to get away from the idea of PPL + Hours + CPL/IR. Unless you want to spend a lot more money of course.

Originally Posted by bitcoin

...claiming that they can get an fATPL the modular route...

There isn't a single modular "route", there are many. Even the number of modules can vary from a few as 5 to as many as 8. The "route" offered by flight schools tend to be the one that suits them not you. It's all about marketing.

[bitcoin]

MODULAR

Thanks all for your advice, I tried to fix my draft to make it less "customised integrated", are these about the right prices?

• 
  PPL: £7695 + £270 for exams (£7965)
  
• Night rating (£1200)
  
• Hour building (£10,000)
  
• Ground School ( £6066) (I can't do distance learning, even with my motivation it's not possible)
  
• ME (£3850)
  
• MEIR: (£19,980)
  
• APS-MCC (£6,000)
  

[rudestuff]

The PPL, Night, MEP etc all look about right, but you won't save much money by blowing £20k on an MEIR. An SEIR will set you back £1500-£2500 and an MEIR should be no more than £4-5k.

[Arena_33]

Originally Posted by bitcoin

Thanks all for your advice, I tried to fix my draft to make it less "customised integrated", are these about the right prices?

• 
  PPL: £7695 + £270 for exams (£7965)
  
• Night rating (£1200)
  
• Hour building (£10,000)
  
• Ground School ( £6066) (I can't do distance learning, even with my motivation it's not possible)
  
• ME (£3850)
  
• MEIR: (£19,980)
  
• APS-MCC (£6,000)
  

Don't forget CPL

[Planner01]

You're off for PPL. Budget £180 per hour minimum x 45. Then add medical, you'll want class 1 which will be about £700. You'll also need to pay the examiner's fee for the skills test, many many touch and goes; you pay for each one. You'll need equipment too; Use EasyPPL for theory which will be around £130 for all modules. You'll need other various equipment for nav such as ruler, CRP (Get CRP 5 is going ATPL) which is £80ish (don't buy used, fakes are out there, oddly). You'll also want your own headset. Cheap ones are just over £100 new or you can find used David Clarks on ebay. Everyone ends up with Bose A20s or A30s (they are worth it) and that's £1k. Then add on other costs like landing fees when doing land aways, licence application fee to the CAA, SkyDemon subscription, ram mount for your phone. You'll be just over £10k for PPL all in if done in minimum hours at a cheap school.
You won't get hour building in the UK for £10k. You'll be looking at £150 per hour in a C152.
Night rating - expect £1500 at the cheapest.
Consider the possibility of having to pay for a type rating too. Ryanair want 30k Euro.

[bitcoin]

ppl

I forgot to include CPL + the UPRT.
Modular Plan:

PPL flying club: £8550 + £270 exam fees (assume 50 hours instead of 45 minimum, and it doesnt say the examiner fee, although I doubt it would fluctuate the overall price too much)
Ground School: £6066 (must be in person learning, I cannot do distance learning)
Night rating: £1026 (again, no idea of examiner fee, but above)
Hour building: £10,000 converted from USD for 100 hours. (rate is $117/hour for C152)
CPL, MEIR: £28,858 + £30 per night * 91 = £31,588
UPRT- £1695 + £30 per night x 3 nights = £1785
APS-MCC £6000 (probably with Skyborne)

Total: £65,285
the other headset and class 1 medical isn't included for budget. I'm looking at a UK-CAA license, so Ryanair is off the table, unless you recommend getting dual licensing?
I don't worry too much about fees to CAA, just the main part of the courses.
How are people getting sub 50k still? It's the CPL/IR part that's tripping me up, I can't find a cheaper course which offers CPL and MEIR.
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated

[rudestuff]

Clearly you're not thinking outside the box yet. You need to do the right courses in the optimum order.

[HypoxicWaiter]

I found hour building post PPL at £78 an hour wet in a SportsCruiser. Did 50 hours in that and then COVID happened and I spent the last few years distance learning and passing the ATPL theory. I now fly a PA38 around for £100ph wet to finish the last of the hour building. My point here is there are far cheaper options than flying clubs to build hours. Check the Flyer Forum for aircraft shares.

I took Rudestuffs advice and embarked on a SE CBIR this summer for a cost of £10k. I was going to do an IR(R) at my local club and then upgrade to a full IR via the CBIR route but I valued the consistency of a full course in the same aircraft. I did want to do a SE CPL and then make the MEP the last course, using different flying clubs around England. However I chose to keep all my training at the same provider (they're modular, pay as you go) so that I'm eligible for certain flying vacancies that stipulate no more than 3 ATOs used to gain the ATPL theory, CPL/IR, and MCC. I'll have to do the MEP before the CPL (their 15 hour course is 10 in a DA40 and 5+test in a DA42) but I can leave the SE to ME IR upgrade until the end, and its also partly on a DA42 sim ( as is the MEP ) which saves money. I also work full time so keeping all my training in one place helps massively with consistency and is worth the few extra pounds I'll have to spend.

I believe the British Aerobatic Academy do a joint UPRT and MCC course which saves you a little money.

​​​​​

[bitcoin]

courses

Isn’t
PPL, Ground school, Hour building. CPL, MEIR, UPRT, MCC the order?

[paco]

Do the ME/IR with a PPL, that way you can count the hours into your total. Rudestuff has put all this in other posts. Also do the ground school while you are flying - you can train but not take the skill test until you have passed them all.

[PPRuNeUser0203]

Interesting you did hour building in a SportCruiser. I assume for a UK license as even three-axis microlight hours can count towards PPL revalidation and PIC hours.

Just wondering what the EASA rules are for allowable aircraft type, for those that want to pursue a dual CAA and EASA license? (Asking for a friend…)

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by HypoxicWaiter

I found hour building post PPL at £78 an hour wet in a SportsCruiser. Did 50 hours in that and then COVID happened and I spent the last few years distance learning and passing the ATPL theory. I now fly a PA38 around for £100ph wet to finish the last of the hour building. My point here is there are far cheaper options than flying clubs to build hours. Check the Flyer Forum for aircraft shares.

I took Rudestuffs advice and embarked on a SE CBIR this summer for a cost of £10k. I was going to do an IR(R) at my local club and then upgrade to a full IR via the CBIR route but I valued the consistency of a full course in the same aircraft. I did want to do a SE CPL and then make the MEP the last course, using different flying clubs around England. However I chose to keep all my training at the same provider (they're modular, pay as you go) so that I'm eligible for certain flying vacancies that stipulate no more than 3 ATOs used to gain the ATPL theory, CPL/IR, and MCC. I'll have to do the MEP before the CPL (their 15 hour course is 10 in a DA40 and 5+test in a DA42) but I can leave the SE to ME IR upgrade until the end, and its also partly on a DA42 sim ( as is the MEP ) which saves money. I also work full time so keeping all my training in one place helps massively with consistency and is worth the few extra pounds I'll have to spend.

I believe the British Aerobatic Academy do a joint UPRT and MCC course which saves you a little money.​​​​​

Good job, I think a lot of people would be interested in a breakdown of your costs.

Originally Posted by Terrence Trent Derby

Interesting you did hour building in a SportCruiser. I assume for a UK license as even three-axis microlight hours can count towards PPL revalidation and PIC hours. Just wondering what the EASA rules are for allowable aircraft type, for those that want to pursue a dual CAA and EASA license? (Asking for a friend…)

There are a few UL types which can be optionally certified to a higher weight limit, so you can count the hours but you need a PPL.

[Alanga1991]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Because based on your plan you don't fully understand how modular works. Sub-£50k is entirely possible using current UK prices.

Following the plan that you (and the other 90% - you're not alone!) intend to follow is so stuctured, unimaginative and obvious it's more like a build-your-own integrated course. It makes use of none of the advantages that the modular system gives you. I won't bother repeating myself here, but click on my other posts and you'll see a breakdown and explanation what I consider to be the optimum modular route.

just tried searching for your other posts and can’t find any. Would love this breakdown as I’m just about to start the advanced training and don’t want to spend money if I can get the same quality training for much much cheaper.

[LongStoryShort]

Does anyone here have experience about how difficult it is to find a job after going for the modular route (ATPL)?