CAA and EASA piloting

[PilotGin]

Hello air crew,

I have quite a complicated question which only the person who went through this can answer me (I believe).

If I am an EU national holding an EU passport and completed all necessary ratings to be an airline pilot, do I have a chance to convert my CAA qualifications to EASA and get employed by an European airliner?

Heard some stories that flight hours in UK would not be recognized in Europe. Just want to know the truth.

Thanks in advance,

Gin

[paco]

Flight hours are flight hours, just make sure you can verify them. The exams, though, are a different story. You may have to take them again.

[rudestuff]

Presumably you did your CAA ratings after Brexit, you have the right to live and work in the UK and now you wish to be able to work in Europe as well? You'll likely need to retake your EASA exams, which shouldn't be too hard as you've passed them already once. Then a couple of flight tests to convert CPL and IR. You might find it easier to get a job in the UK and wait until you have an ATPL, it's much easier to convert. Hours are hours.

[PilotGin]

Originally Posted by paco

Flight hours are flight hours, just make sure you can verify them. The exams, though, are a different story. You may have to take them again.

This is exactly what I wanted to know.

Thanks for a brill answer.

Regards,

Gin

[PilotGin]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Presumably you did your CAA ratings after Brexit, you have the right to live and work in the UK and now you wish to be able to work in Europe as well? You'll likely need to retake your EASA exams, which shouldn't be too hard as you've passed them already once. Then a couple of flight tests to convert CPL and IR. You might find it easier to get a non in the UK and wait until you have an ATPL, it's much easier to convert. Hours are hours.

Thank you for your brilliant reply.

Affirm, the only rating I almost have atm is CAA PPL (not much left to complete).

One little question, does Night Rating need conversion from CAA to EASA as well?

Regards,

Gin

[jez d]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Presumably you did your CAA ratings after Brexit, you have the right to live and work in the UK and now you wish to be able to work in Europe as well? You'll likely need to retake your EASA exams, which shouldn't be too hard as you've passed them already once. Then a couple of flight tests to convert CPL and IR. You might find it easier to get a non in the UK and wait until you have an ATPL, it's much easier to convert. Hours are hours.

[my bold]

Apologies for singling you out Rudestuff, because you are certainly not the first (or last) to make this error. We Brits are also Europeans, residing in Europe. This is why the European Aviation Safety Agency became the EU Aviation Safety Agency when it was pointed out to them that not all European nations are members. Sorry for the pedantry.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by jez d

[my bold]We Brits are also Europeans, residing in Europe. This is why the European Aviation Safety Agency became the EU Aviation Safety Agency when it was pointed out to them that not all European nations are members. Sorry for the pedantry.

I have no idea where you got this idea from. There are of course some Brits who may have residency in a single European country, but in general Brits are not considered European for the purposes of licencing.
Geographically, yes. Politically or licence-wise, no.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by PilotGin

One little question, does Night Rating need conversion from CAA to EASA as well?

That's a good question because it falls in a grey area. I will put my neck on the block and say technically no*. The commercial licence requires 15 or 25 hours training. You will also need to complete at least five hours of night flight instruction, comprising three hours of dual instruction, which will include at least one hour of cross-country navigation and five solo take-offs and five solo full stop landings.
The text in bold is from the CAA, and I'm assuming the EASA requirement is still the same. You can do the above training OR hold a night rating. When I applied for my (EASA) CAA-issued CPL I didn't have a night rating but I did have the necessary training in my logbook from an FAA instructor and the CAA accepted that.

*Of course, if you intend to fly at night before you have your EASA CPL issued then you would need to get the NR. Once you have the EASA CPL it doesn't matter because the CPL includes night privileges anyway.

[jez d]

Disagree. EASA is the licensing authority for the European Union, not for Europe. There are 23 European countries that aren't members of the EU, although some are members of EASA by virtue of other alliances with the EU such as membership of the EFTA, but they do not hold any voting rights. There is nothing to stop a Brit from gaining an EASA licence but unless they hold EU citizenship/residency then they do not have the automatic right to work in the EU. The distinction I'm making is that 'Europe' and 'European' are geographical definitions, not political.

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by jez d

Disagree. EASA is the licensing authority for the European Union, not for Europe. There are 23 European countries that aren't members of the EU, although some are members of EASA by virtue of other alliances with the EU such as membership of the EFTA, but they do not hold any voting rights. There is nothing to stop a Brit from gaining an EASA licence but unless they hold EU citizenship/residency then they do not have the automatic right to work in the EU. The distinction I'm making is that 'Europe' and 'European' are geographical definitions, not political.

That's weird because I agree with everything you just said! So I'm confused what you have to disagree about.
Can you elaborate on the 'error' you mention in post #6?
The OP is an EU-national with a CAA license. I made a comment that Presumably they have or had the right to live and work in the UK, hence the CAA license, and now they want an EASA one. I think you got a bit carried away.

[jez d]

Sorry Rudestuff, it's my pedantic nature kicking in. Your advice to the OP was correct and I was merely picking you up on your terminology. You originally stated '...live and work in the UK and now you wish to be able to work in Europe as well?' The point I was making is that the UK continues to be and will forever be part of Europe and so the sentence should have read '...live and work in the UK and now you wish to be able to work in the European Union as well?' .

I constantly hear politicians referring to the UK's departure from Europe, which apart from making my teeth itch, is also a physical impossibility, unless we align all our windfarms and our hot air-blowing politicians to push us further out into the Atlantic.

I shall now step back into my box.

[rudestuff]

Makes sense!

[Central Scrutinizer]

Guys, the discussion on whether the UK belongs to Europe or not is not useful for the purposes of this thread!
I think everybody understands what is meant by "since the UK left Europe" in the context of flight crew licencing!

OP: You could formulate your question better by stating which licence/ratings you alreay have and what your goals are. If you've only completed up to PPL (UK) so far and you ultimately want a frozen ATPL (EASA), then the earlier you switch from the UK to EASA the better. Sure you can follow through up to obtaining a UK frozen ATPL and then switch, but why? You'll then likely need resit the ATPL TK exams. I'd probably kill myself before having to go through those exams for a second time.

[PilotGin]

Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer

Guys, the discussion on whether the UK belongs to Europe or not is not useful for the purposes of this thread!
I think everybody understands what is meant by "since the UK left Europe" in the context of flight crew licencing!

OP: You could formulate your question better by stating which licence/ratings you alreay have and what your goals are. If you've only completed up to PPL (UK) so far and you ultimately want a frozen ATPL (EASA), then the earlier you switch from the UK to EASA the better. Sure you can follow through up to obtaining a UK frozen ATPL and then switch, but why? You'll then likely need resit the ATPL TK exams. I'd probably kill myself before having to go through those exams for a second time.

Agreed to every word you typed.

All I care is what EASA accepts and what they don't as my goal is to live in a nice warm EU country and fly from there. I have started CAA PPL here in UK because it was the easiest way for me to start a flying career as the airfield is 10min away from my house so I can be quite flexible.

The complexity of my situation is that I want EASA ATPL but that means I have to achieve them in some EU country which means I will have to travel more so it will cost me time and money than achieving all ratings here in UK. Although, the flying hours in EU are cheaper than UK so there are pros and cons, math kicks in here I suppose.

Also, as you said, sitting same exams and taking skills test twice (at least) would be I nightmare. I am leaning more towards achieving EASA ATPL straight away tbh. I suppose it's an individual situation to each of us who want to be an airline pilot and there is no straight answer.

Thanks though!

[flying.gnome]

I'm in a similar situation to the OP, although a lot earlier on in my journey so hopefully some info can help me avoid the roadblocks on down the line!

I'm about to start flying lessons with my local club (CAA) to begin working towards a PPL. Ultimately I want to follow the modular route to end up with an EASA ATPL license.

So my question is - can I begin training with my local club (really its my only chance of flying in the next number of months) and then transfer the hours over to IAA and complete the theory exams and skills test there?

Or am I better completing the full CAA PPL with my local club first and then look to transfer it across to EASA?

Thanks in advance for any advice, and apologies I'm sure this has been answered before but I'm quite new to this!

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by PilotGin

(1)All I care is what EASA accepts...I have started CAA PPL here in UK because it was the easiest way for me to start a flying career as the airfield is 10min away...
(2)The complexity of my situation is that I want EASA ATPL but that means I have to achieve them in some EU country...
(3)Also, as you said, sitting same exams and taking skills test twice (at least) would be I nightmare.
~edited for specificity~

(1) EASA will accept ANY ICAO PPL so a UK PPL is fine. Hours can be built anywhere, which makes the US/South Africa good options price wise.
(2) You'll need to achieve then at an EASA ATO, there is a subtle difference. Only the IR actually needs to be done in EASA airspace.
(3) Studying for exams you already took 5 years ago would be a nightmare. Studying for CAA and EASA at the same time is zero extra work and maybe £1000 in exam fees. Taking exams is easy, it's the study which is the nightmare. Skills tests can be combined in certain circumstances. Also, skills tests are not something you can avoid - if you become an airline pilot you will have one at least every 6 months!

[GGTT]

Hi all,

This is a bit off topic, however, everyone here seems to have such great knowledge, so if you don't mind me asking. I'm a British citizen but a French resident and am looking to go to flight school in France for a EASA fATPL. If I were to get a job based outside of France and the UK, am I right in assuming that any European airline or company would help me acquire work Visa? I hope this is a stupid question and the answer is yes, just seems worth checking.

Thanks for the help!

[rudestuff]

Originally Posted by GGTT

I'm a British citizen but a French resident ~ looking to go to flight school in France for a EASA fATPL. If I were to get a job based outside of France and the UK, am I right in assuming that any European airline or company would help me acquire work Visa? I hope this is a stupid question and the answer is yes..

It's not a stupid question but unfortunately the answer is No. You will probably not be able to get a work visa. Your job options are UK, Ireland and France.

[CaptSackJarrow]

Just to delve for some advice, bar Ryanair, is there much demand for the EASA license, UK citizen spec?

[redsnail]

Yes, NetJets Europe.