What will a 200h frozen ATPL holder expect?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow! Hadn’t checked this thread for some time, and now that I did, I’m impressed with all the stuff on here. Thanks for feeding this discussion, all!
update from me: got all the documents I need to get my “good boy” certificate from German police/govt. which means I should be a student by Jan-ish. If, I go ahead. I am leaning to, just gotta grieve my money and bank account first - it’s a process
i also think I’d rather try and fail, and look back thinking: “f* it, I had the chance and took it”, rather than wishing I had done sth I didn’t.
Maybe during the PPL I’ll realize I’m crap at this and won’t go further, who knows? 🤷🏻♂️
update from me: got all the documents I need to get my “good boy” certificate from German police/govt. which means I should be a student by Jan-ish. If, I go ahead. I am leaning to, just gotta grieve my money and bank account first - it’s a process
i also think I’d rather try and fail, and look back thinking: “f* it, I had the chance and took it”, rather than wishing I had done sth I didn’t.
Maybe during the PPL I’ll realize I’m crap at this and won’t go further, who knows? 🤷🏻♂️
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you mind letting us know how many of that bunch ended up paying for their own type rating? As OP mentioned in the theme of the original post, before proceeding with training it would be a good idea to know if there are job opportunities out there that will offer a type rating, or if it needs to definitely be factored into the training budget.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven’t read all the answers so maybe my answer has already been given. As you are 27, you have a good salary already I suggest that you start with PPL and ATPL theory. With the idea that IF you want to continue down the airline route you have already the theoretical knowlegde in the pocket. With the PPL done you know if flying is for you and if this is what you really want. If you don’t like flying the small stuff, you also wouldn’t enjoy flying the big stuff. If you do like it continue with CPL and ME/IR.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: in a house
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey air people from all over the world. As my username says, I want to fly. But...
About me:
However, the money question is what can I expect assuming that I do the training and 3 years from now I hold a frozen ATPL with 200 hours on it.
I know competition is fierce, so I don't expect someone to say "you'll find a job in no time, get your TPR funded by the airline, and off you go jetting off to happiness. happy days".
But, realistically, what can I expect? What do people do? How many hours do people usually fly until they get a job?
This part of the puzzle is what I'm missing the most to know, to help me decide if I'm about to burn a whole heap of money on a dream, or not.
I appreciate that many have asked this before with different words & context, but I'll be really happy to read anything you know, want to share, or your experience. It will make a difference.
Thank you
About me:
- 27 years old, turning 28 this year
- Full time employed with a good salary
- Living in Germany, still learning the language
- EU passport holder
- Flying has always been my dream
- If I keep my job, I can do modular training without acquiring debt
However, the money question is what can I expect assuming that I do the training and 3 years from now I hold a frozen ATPL with 200 hours on it.
I know competition is fierce, so I don't expect someone to say "you'll find a job in no time, get your TPR funded by the airline, and off you go jetting off to happiness. happy days".
But, realistically, what can I expect? What do people do? How many hours do people usually fly until they get a job?
This part of the puzzle is what I'm missing the most to know, to help me decide if I'm about to burn a whole heap of money on a dream, or not.
I appreciate that many have asked this before with different words & context, but I'll be really happy to read anything you know, want to share, or your experience. It will make a difference.
Thank you
You need money, aptitude and determination to succeed. Many dont have an interest. Most don't have the money. Some people just don't have the aptitude or temperament for this job. Others give up. Not a quality desirable in someone flying an airplane.
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Ireland
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree with rudestuff above.
I looked at the person above's old posts and they finished their training with the MCC in 2011. They got one interview and admit they flunked it. They then got another job in a different area. I hardly think that means that there is no hope in the industry.
He then renewed his ratings just before the ATPL exams expired (7 years), but then Brexit and Covid hit. Bad timing I think everyone would agree.
It certainly doesn't show determination to get a job. rudestuff is right that people need to swing with the highs and lows in this industry. That should be a given. A large amount of cash (e.g. €30k) for a type rating with the likes of RYR may also be necessary. He also said before he refuses to pay for UPRT training - it's mandatory so no training = no job.
I looked at the person above's old posts and they finished their training with the MCC in 2011. They got one interview and admit they flunked it. They then got another job in a different area. I hardly think that means that there is no hope in the industry.
He then renewed his ratings just before the ATPL exams expired (7 years), but then Brexit and Covid hit. Bad timing I think everyone would agree.
It certainly doesn't show determination to get a job. rudestuff is right that people need to swing with the highs and lows in this industry. That should be a given. A large amount of cash (e.g. €30k) for a type rating with the likes of RYR may also be necessary. He also said before he refuses to pay for UPRT training - it's mandatory so no training = no job.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was about to ask “Iflyplainplanes” to describe his journey, cases of unachieved expectations also portray reality and help. And mate, if you want to add anything - please do. For what it’s worth, it helps me get as much data as I can.
update on my journey: got everything ready for sending the German background check (last hurdle to clear before I can enrol as a student).
as soon as I send it, should take 4 weeks to get the cert. During these 4 weeks I will reflect a lot on what to do - but not too much. I think I will anyways love the PPL, and I will have time during its tuition to also assess future moves.
Final note for this post, I really enjoy the activity this thread gets. Feels cosy to read your posts
update on my journey: got everything ready for sending the German background check (last hurdle to clear before I can enrol as a student).
as soon as I send it, should take 4 weeks to get the cert. During these 4 weeks I will reflect a lot on what to do - but not too much. I think I will anyways love the PPL, and I will have time during its tuition to also assess future moves.
Final note for this post, I really enjoy the activity this thread gets. Feels cosy to read your posts
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you mind letting us know how many of that bunch ended up paying for their own type rating? As OP mentioned in the theme of the original post, before proceeding with training it would be a good idea to know if there are job opportunities out there that will offer a type rating, or if it needs to definitely be factored into the training budget.
After this, I definetily will not pay ever again for a rating 😄✈️.
Hope for the best but expect the worst. Play the long game and start planning from day one. If you're planning to go modular and know you need 3 years to be financially stable and you need a job, then get a job with your target airline doing anything, preferably in the office close to management or flight ops etc and absolutely ******* shine. Then talk to the CP and tell him/her/it what you're up to in your spare time. The rest should fall into place.
I got my license right around 9/11 in 2001 and spent +4 years looking for a first job (had an engineering degree so I managed to keep licences "alive"). There have been people who have lost their job due to COVID, but from the moment there was the slightest hint of improvement they were hired, and they now cruising around 777s in a legacy carrier. Not because recovery is fast, but because experience to fill these positions is becoming a rarity on the market. Once experience starts to move seats, the door is wide open. And these doors open pretty much overnight. All you have to do is hang on.
It's not because you have to try for a year, it is a disaster. It is a normal wait. But the door will open.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I apogolize up front, but this post reads very "spoiled brat". Define "nearest future"?
I got my license right around 9/11 in 2001 and spent +4 years looking for a first job (had an engineering degree so I managed to keep licences "alive"). There have been people who have lost their job due to COVID, but from the moment there was the slightest hint of improvement they were hired, and they now cruising around 777s in a legacy carrier. Not because recovery is fast, but because experience to fill these positions is becoming a rarity on the market. Once experience starts to move seats, the door is wide open. And these doors open pretty much overnight. All you have to do is hang on.
It's not because you have to try for a year, it is a disaster. It is a normal wait. But the door will open.
I got my license right around 9/11 in 2001 and spent +4 years looking for a first job (had an engineering degree so I managed to keep licences "alive"). There have been people who have lost their job due to COVID, but from the moment there was the slightest hint of improvement they were hired, and they now cruising around 777s in a legacy carrier. Not because recovery is fast, but because experience to fill these positions is becoming a rarity on the market. Once experience starts to move seats, the door is wide open. And these doors open pretty much overnight. All you have to do is hang on.
It's not because you have to try for a year, it is a disaster. It is a normal wait. But the door will open.
not to discredit other posts - they have all been helpful. My first lesson is scheduled
my journey starts now!
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Madrid
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes
I apogolize up front, but this post reads very "spoiled brat". Define "nearest future"?
I got my license right around 9/11 in 2001 and spent +4 years looking for a first job (had an engineering degree so I managed to keep licences "alive"). There have been people who have lost their job due to COVID, but from the moment there was the slightest hint of improvement they were hired, and they now cruising around 777s in a legacy carrier. Not because recovery is fast, but because experience to fill these positions is becoming a rarity on the market. Once experience starts to move seats, the door is wide open. And these doors open pretty much overnight. All you have to do is hang on.
It's not because you have to try for a year, it is a disaster. It is a normal wait. But the door will open.
I got my license right around 9/11 in 2001 and spent +4 years looking for a first job (had an engineering degree so I managed to keep licences "alive"). There have been people who have lost their job due to COVID, but from the moment there was the slightest hint of improvement they were hired, and they now cruising around 777s in a legacy carrier. Not because recovery is fast, but because experience to fill these positions is becoming a rarity on the market. Once experience starts to move seats, the door is wide open. And these doors open pretty much overnight. All you have to do is hang on.
It's not because you have to try for a year, it is a disaster. It is a normal wait. But the door will open.
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Europe
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey man,
So I'm in the industry since I was a teen, and I spent almost 10 years flying questionable airplanes in questionable countries under questionable ICAO licenses.
As my old opportunities disappeared, I decided it was time to go for EASA conversion.
Honestly, these 10 years were painful, but my latest year of converting and fighting EU bureaucracy was the worst.
With that being said, I can't imagine myself dropping out of aviation. It's not the easiest industry, but certainly quite rewarding.
I can only say you should keep your "regular" job for as long as possible.
Good decision on getting your PPL and do networking first, you'll have more info by then to decide whether aviation career is worth it or not.
PS: I had a partner for my CPL/IR conversion checkride, she's from Germany, too. She told me that I should avoid German CAA for now, maybe this will help you in future.
So I'm in the industry since I was a teen, and I spent almost 10 years flying questionable airplanes in questionable countries under questionable ICAO licenses.
As my old opportunities disappeared, I decided it was time to go for EASA conversion.
Honestly, these 10 years were painful, but my latest year of converting and fighting EU bureaucracy was the worst.
With that being said, I can't imagine myself dropping out of aviation. It's not the easiest industry, but certainly quite rewarding.
I can only say you should keep your "regular" job for as long as possible.
Good decision on getting your PPL and do networking first, you'll have more info by then to decide whether aviation career is worth it or not.
PS: I had a partner for my CPL/IR conversion checkride, she's from Germany, too. She told me that I should avoid German CAA for now, maybe this will help you in future.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your OP asked what the situation will be like in three years? Impossible to answer. What if their is a world war with russia between now and then, another 9/11, a new pandemic, a stock market crash, a world recession, oil prices get higher due to the war. You just cannot predict what the job market will be like in 3 years. Maybe one of the above scenarios has come and wen't by the time you get the ATPL and you get hired just as a recession is starting and they suddenly tell you you are back in the hold pool.?
