Canada CPL/IR expedited training - recommendations please
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Canada CPL/IR expedited training - recommendations please
Hi guys,
I have a current EASA PPL and IMC (325hrs), and am looking to go to Canada in Feb/Mar or Mar/Apr next year to do a TC CPL/IR. Will get medical and all ground-school studying out the way before going to Canada. I've discounted the States at the moment, simply because of the visa faff etc. Canada seems a lot more accessible!
I am trying to find recommendations for a flight school who can accommodate this in a compressed timescale, as I will be away from work/family/kids. I've reached out to a few who have said that the curriculum is 60 hours (I'm fine with this), and that it would take 2-3 months for the PPL conversion and 5-6 more months for the CPL/IR! (not so fine with this!!!).
I recognise fatigue levels etc, but I am pretty sure I am capable of 2-4 hours of flying training a day. I did my initial PPL in 4 and a half weeks (incl ground-school), so taking double the time to convert seems crazy to me.
A couple of questions:
1. I'm assuming it is necessary to convert from EASA PPL to TC PPL in order to do the CPL. Does anyone have experience of how long this actually takes to convert a foreign license in Canada, assuming flying capability is not an issue? Just wondering if the PSTAR exam ->results -> flight test really takes more than a week?
2. Does anyone have any recommendations of flight schools who will accommodate an expedited timescale? At the moment, I am simply crawling through websites to find schools, but recognise that I could be missing out on complete gems. I'm agnostic about location, although given the time of year, the far north may prove challenging with weather! I thought the bigger schools with loads of aircraft and instructors may be a good bet, but they all seem pretty rigid in their syllabus. I am ok with a one-aircraft-one-instructor school but recognise the risk to timescales if the aircraft goes tech etc, so I guess I am looking for a flight school with a little depth but with flexibility. I am happy to be out in the bush, so no issue there. Finally, a few of the schools I have spoken to say they are booked until late 2022/23 - I guess this is the COVID delayed guys from last year filling them up. Good time to be an instructor I guess!
3. In my ideal world, I would progress through the CPL/IR in 8 weeks. Assuming all ground-school complete and this is just to focus on the flying, am I dreaming? I recognise it will be hard work, but I am prepared to immerse myself in it and focus solely on the flying. The reality of it is that I will probably struggle to get more time off work than that, so if it is entirely unreasonable, would probably end up having to separate them out and do them individually on 2 separate visits.
4. For those who know the weather, is Feb/Mar/Apr out of the question in terms of flyable days?
Advice and recommendations gratefully received!
I have a current EASA PPL and IMC (325hrs), and am looking to go to Canada in Feb/Mar or Mar/Apr next year to do a TC CPL/IR. Will get medical and all ground-school studying out the way before going to Canada. I've discounted the States at the moment, simply because of the visa faff etc. Canada seems a lot more accessible!
I am trying to find recommendations for a flight school who can accommodate this in a compressed timescale, as I will be away from work/family/kids. I've reached out to a few who have said that the curriculum is 60 hours (I'm fine with this), and that it would take 2-3 months for the PPL conversion and 5-6 more months for the CPL/IR! (not so fine with this!!!).
I recognise fatigue levels etc, but I am pretty sure I am capable of 2-4 hours of flying training a day. I did my initial PPL in 4 and a half weeks (incl ground-school), so taking double the time to convert seems crazy to me.
A couple of questions:
1. I'm assuming it is necessary to convert from EASA PPL to TC PPL in order to do the CPL. Does anyone have experience of how long this actually takes to convert a foreign license in Canada, assuming flying capability is not an issue? Just wondering if the PSTAR exam ->results -> flight test really takes more than a week?
2. Does anyone have any recommendations of flight schools who will accommodate an expedited timescale? At the moment, I am simply crawling through websites to find schools, but recognise that I could be missing out on complete gems. I'm agnostic about location, although given the time of year, the far north may prove challenging with weather! I thought the bigger schools with loads of aircraft and instructors may be a good bet, but they all seem pretty rigid in their syllabus. I am ok with a one-aircraft-one-instructor school but recognise the risk to timescales if the aircraft goes tech etc, so I guess I am looking for a flight school with a little depth but with flexibility. I am happy to be out in the bush, so no issue there. Finally, a few of the schools I have spoken to say they are booked until late 2022/23 - I guess this is the COVID delayed guys from last year filling them up. Good time to be an instructor I guess!
3. In my ideal world, I would progress through the CPL/IR in 8 weeks. Assuming all ground-school complete and this is just to focus on the flying, am I dreaming? I recognise it will be hard work, but I am prepared to immerse myself in it and focus solely on the flying. The reality of it is that I will probably struggle to get more time off work than that, so if it is entirely unreasonable, would probably end up having to separate them out and do them individually on 2 separate visits.
4. For those who know the weather, is Feb/Mar/Apr out of the question in terms of flyable days?
Advice and recommendations gratefully received!
Are you required to attend a flight training unit which is a designated learning institute with a COVID-19 readiness plan? These organisations are listed at https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...roved-dli.html
You do not require a Canadian PPL or foreign licence validation certificate in order to undertake the flight test or dual instruction for the Canadian CPL. Obviously a PPL or FLVC will be needed to complete any outstanding solo training requirements. You can apply for a foreign-based PPL without undergoing a PPL skill test. The FLVC will be administratively easier to obtain. You should be able to obtain it simply by visiting a Transport Canada regional office.
Ensure that on arrival in Canada you sit the ROC-A (restricted operator certificate with aeronautical qualification) exam and apply for the certificate at the earliest opportunity. You can alternatively use a US commercial radio operator licence (radio service code RR, not RL) if you are a US citizen. The RIC-21 study guide published by Industry Canada will prepare you for the ROC-A exam. https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01397.html
Your IMC training should count towards the Canadian IR experience requirements. I expect you have already met the experience requirement in 421.30(4)(a)(ii)(B) of the Canadian aviation standards. Eight weeks sounds excessive.
You do not require a Canadian PPL or foreign licence validation certificate in order to undertake the flight test or dual instruction for the Canadian CPL. Obviously a PPL or FLVC will be needed to complete any outstanding solo training requirements. You can apply for a foreign-based PPL without undergoing a PPL skill test. The FLVC will be administratively easier to obtain. You should be able to obtain it simply by visiting a Transport Canada regional office.
Ensure that on arrival in Canada you sit the ROC-A (restricted operator certificate with aeronautical qualification) exam and apply for the certificate at the earliest opportunity. You can alternatively use a US commercial radio operator licence (radio service code RR, not RL) if you are a US citizen. The RIC-21 study guide published by Industry Canada will prepare you for the ROC-A exam. https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01397.html
Your IMC training should count towards the Canadian IR experience requirements. I expect you have already met the experience requirement in 421.30(4)(a)(ii)(B) of the Canadian aviation standards. Eight weeks sounds excessive.
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I would not look anywhere except Saskatchewan and Manitoba for those months, otherwise there will be a good chance of many weather cancellations. Harv's does a lot of training for foreigners, so should have a good grasp of what exactly needs to be done and when. There are some other good FTUs in the prairies, as well, though.
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Hiya Selfin!
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I don't believe I am limited to an institution that has a COVID ready plan, as I will effectively be coming into Canada as a visitor, and will be in and out long before the 6 months that would then require a student visa.
Agreed on the PPL requirement, and I am trying to work out whether to simply go the FLVC or write the PPAER and do a flight test for a standalone Canadian PPL. I not sure of the benefit of doing this if I intend to go straight onto CPL? Am I right in thinking for an FLVC, it is simply license docs/medical and then write the PSTAR and a license is issued on the same day. Apart from needing to keep my EASA PPL current, are there any downsides to an FLVC over a standalone Canadian PPL?
Thanks so much for the info on the ROC-A - this wasn't on my radar at all! Is your advice to do that ASAP simply for the benefit of solo flying, or is it because it takes a while for the certificate or something?
Yep, I meet the criteria for 421.30(4)(a)(ii)(B).
Following another recommendation on PPrune (what an awesome resource this is!), I've come across Cornwall Aviation, who seem to indicate that a 2 week IFR is possible. Even if I doubled that, it would still be waaaaaaay under what other flight schools have indicated. I'd just need to find somewhere else to do the CPL, as it doesn't look like they offer it.
Once again, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and providing sound advice!
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I don't believe I am limited to an institution that has a COVID ready plan, as I will effectively be coming into Canada as a visitor, and will be in and out long before the 6 months that would then require a student visa.
Agreed on the PPL requirement, and I am trying to work out whether to simply go the FLVC or write the PPAER and do a flight test for a standalone Canadian PPL. I not sure of the benefit of doing this if I intend to go straight onto CPL? Am I right in thinking for an FLVC, it is simply license docs/medical and then write the PSTAR and a license is issued on the same day. Apart from needing to keep my EASA PPL current, are there any downsides to an FLVC over a standalone Canadian PPL?
Thanks so much for the info on the ROC-A - this wasn't on my radar at all! Is your advice to do that ASAP simply for the benefit of solo flying, or is it because it takes a while for the certificate or something?
Yep, I meet the criteria for 421.30(4)(a)(ii)(B).
Following another recommendation on PPrune (what an awesome resource this is!), I've come across Cornwall Aviation, who seem to indicate that a 2 week IFR is possible. Even if I doubled that, it would still be waaaaaaay under what other flight schools have indicated. I'd just need to find somewhere else to do the CPL, as it doesn't look like they offer it.
Once again, thank you so much for taking the time to reply and providing sound advice!
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Thanks for the advice, not being local, that really helps! I'll look into the Prarie areas. I'd previously contacted Harv's, but they were fully booked 2 years ahead. I might drop them a line to see if they have any availability now.
Thanks for the info!
Cheers
Thanks for the info!
Cheers
The standard PPL will be a waste of time and money if the purpose of the trip is to obtain a CPL. Subsection 401.03(2) in the Canadian aviation regulations allows you to act as PIC on a Canadian aircraft using a valid non-Canadian licence for the purpose of undertaking a Canadian flight test. Therefore you will only need a pilot permit, PPL, or FLVC in order to act as PIC in any other circumstances, eg to meet outstanding experience requirements or simply to escape the excruciating boredom of Winnipeg.
The FLVC can be issued with a validity period of up to 12 months. It is available only to non-residents and it may be used to fly a Canadian aircraft outside of Canada, eg over the San Juan Islands. There is no written exam, no flight test, and no requirement for a Canadian medical. The recent experience requirements in section 401.05 of the regulations do not apply to the FLVC. Note that failing a Canadian written exam will prevent the FLVC being issued until the exam has been successfully passed. There is a 14 day waiting period before a failed exam can be rewritten and the waiting period increases with each subsequent failure. This is explained in the section on the rewriting of examinations in the Study And Reference Guide for Written Examinations for the Commercial Pilot Licence Aeroplane (TP 12881). It is therefore prudent to apply for the FLVC before attempting the CPAER or INRAT exams.
If you do not wish to rely on the validity of your EASA licence, eg you wish to avoid keeping the SEP class rating or the medical certificate valid, then a foreign-based or standard PPL might be worthwhile. I have been told by a particularly erudite Canadian licensing officer that the foreign-based PPL is not considered to be dependent on the validity of the foreign licence.
From 9 Aug or 9 Sep, depending on nationality, fully vaccinated foreign nationals may enter Canada for discretionary purposes. So it looks like attendance at a DLI with COVID-19 readiness plan will no longer be necessary. See https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/tr...s/wizard-start or the relevant Order in Council at https://orders-in-council.canada.ca
When I inquired with Industry Canada in 2015 I was advised that the foreign equivalent of an ROC-A was not a permissible substitute when operating the radio on a Canadian aircraft in Canada. One ROC-A examiner advertises that the exam can be done remotely by video conference owing to Covid-19 (link) and states a processing time of about a month. The certificate will be posted by Industry Canada or whatever it's now called and does not form part of the aviation document booklet issued by Transport.
The FLVC can be issued with a validity period of up to 12 months. It is available only to non-residents and it may be used to fly a Canadian aircraft outside of Canada, eg over the San Juan Islands. There is no written exam, no flight test, and no requirement for a Canadian medical. The recent experience requirements in section 401.05 of the regulations do not apply to the FLVC. Note that failing a Canadian written exam will prevent the FLVC being issued until the exam has been successfully passed. There is a 14 day waiting period before a failed exam can be rewritten and the waiting period increases with each subsequent failure. This is explained in the section on the rewriting of examinations in the Study And Reference Guide for Written Examinations for the Commercial Pilot Licence Aeroplane (TP 12881). It is therefore prudent to apply for the FLVC before attempting the CPAER or INRAT exams.
If you do not wish to rely on the validity of your EASA licence, eg you wish to avoid keeping the SEP class rating or the medical certificate valid, then a foreign-based or standard PPL might be worthwhile. I have been told by a particularly erudite Canadian licensing officer that the foreign-based PPL is not considered to be dependent on the validity of the foreign licence.
From 9 Aug or 9 Sep, depending on nationality, fully vaccinated foreign nationals may enter Canada for discretionary purposes. So it looks like attendance at a DLI with COVID-19 readiness plan will no longer be necessary. See https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/tr...s/wizard-start or the relevant Order in Council at https://orders-in-council.canada.ca
When I inquired with Industry Canada in 2015 I was advised that the foreign equivalent of an ROC-A was not a permissible substitute when operating the radio on a Canadian aircraft in Canada. One ROC-A examiner advertises that the exam can be done remotely by video conference owing to Covid-19 (link) and states a processing time of about a month. The certificate will be posted by Industry Canada or whatever it's now called and does not form part of the aviation document booklet issued by Transport.
I am an accredited examiner for the ROC-A in Canada. I specifically give the exam to Air cadets, so I have not encountered your situation before, but recently my candidates have been getting their certificates in the mail in a week or two. I do the exams online via zoom.
The Government Department is now called Innovation Science and Economic Development, Canada. (ISED).
The study guide is here:
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01397.html
All the info I have to go by is here:
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01018.html
Good luck!
The Government Department is now called Innovation Science and Economic Development, Canada. (ISED).
The study guide is here:
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01397.html
All the info I have to go by is here:
https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf01018.html
Good luck!
Last edited by ve3id; 15th Aug 2021 at 14:41. Reason: Swapped Industry for Innovation
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Selfin and Ve3id, I'd really like to thank you for taking the time to reply, and for sharing your knowledge so freely. Some great information and advice in there - it's people like you guys who make Pprune such a valuable resource.
FLVC sounds just the ticket in this case.
Ve3id, thanks for the links. Once I have finalised where I will be doing the flying portion, I'll book for the radio test, and ask for the certificate to be mailed to wherever I will be training in Canada. Very useful info, much obliged.
Thanks once again!
FLVC sounds just the ticket in this case.
Ve3id, thanks for the links. Once I have finalised where I will be doing the flying portion, I'll book for the radio test, and ask for the certificate to be mailed to wherever I will be training in Canada. Very useful info, much obliged.
Thanks once again!
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One of my projects was south of Saskatchewan (in North Dakota) and the same would also apply there... so In Canada it would be even worse. We even had snow in May!
Note that 70% of the US is covered in snow in the winter... and February I would say is the coldest month...
Weather-wise, I would not recommend your timing...
Canada is a great country but weather is challenging to put it mildly
Good luck!
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Spring in parts of canada is quite bad. I am a flight instructor in Ontario, and i know i have had great months of flying hour wise in February and january in the past. But during the transition of the seasons from March-May, it can be very challenging with freezing rain, low clould etc.
Ive been to Cornwall aviation, i went in November to do their fast paced program, most people who were there when i caught up with them after they finished had taken 4-6 weeks, ive spoken to those who went in summer and they got in and out in 3 weeks.
All flight schools will accomadate an expedited time scale as long as your paying. i have done these before and generally what will happen is my CFI will come to me and say "this is Billy, billy wants to get his license by X" and then off we get to work. I do work for one of the large schools, but i dont understand the "rigid in their Sylabus" comment, we train as per the CAR's, and i know the other big schools do also. Ive also worked in a small school, and it was the same there.
You mentioned you have 325 hrs, for the CPL to be issued youl still have to hit the expeirence requirements like, 50 X country PIC, 100 hrs PIC, 20 hours instrument post PPL etc for the issuance of the license.
The next comment i am going to make is a general comment based on my expeirence as a flight instructor doing these conversions, sometimes its not as straight forward as the canidate expects. Often higher hour students expect to breeze through the course but they may not in fact be able to meet the standard and will need more work to get there.
Anyhow, all i can say is canada is an amazing place to fly. In fact if you get good breaks in the winter weather in canada its the best time of year to fly. PM me if you want me to send you specific details on my school or want information on other schools as i have colleagues or ex students scattered around most of them.
p.s. harvs air has amazing online school content to prepare for the CPL, INRAT etc.
In canada, the aviation forum of choice is avcanada.ca
Ive been to Cornwall aviation, i went in November to do their fast paced program, most people who were there when i caught up with them after they finished had taken 4-6 weeks, ive spoken to those who went in summer and they got in and out in 3 weeks.
All flight schools will accomadate an expedited time scale as long as your paying. i have done these before and generally what will happen is my CFI will come to me and say "this is Billy, billy wants to get his license by X" and then off we get to work. I do work for one of the large schools, but i dont understand the "rigid in their Sylabus" comment, we train as per the CAR's, and i know the other big schools do also. Ive also worked in a small school, and it was the same there.
You mentioned you have 325 hrs, for the CPL to be issued youl still have to hit the expeirence requirements like, 50 X country PIC, 100 hrs PIC, 20 hours instrument post PPL etc for the issuance of the license.
The next comment i am going to make is a general comment based on my expeirence as a flight instructor doing these conversions, sometimes its not as straight forward as the canidate expects. Often higher hour students expect to breeze through the course but they may not in fact be able to meet the standard and will need more work to get there.
Anyhow, all i can say is canada is an amazing place to fly. In fact if you get good breaks in the winter weather in canada its the best time of year to fly. PM me if you want me to send you specific details on my school or want information on other schools as i have colleagues or ex students scattered around most of them.
p.s. harvs air has amazing online school content to prepare for the CPL, INRAT etc.
In canada, the aviation forum of choice is avcanada.ca
