Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.


Old 24th Jul 2021, 15:26
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 19

Hi all,

I am looking to start my UK Integrated ATPL training at the start of next year and have managed to whittle the countless UK flight school options down to L3Harris. From looking at their website, their promotional videos and video tours of the facilities it is where I picture myself the most. Their pilot placement pool, reputation and links with major airlines is very appealing and I believe these atributes would help me get a job in what will be a very competitive market in 2 years time.

Anyhow, I have now started to look at reviews for this company and every single review says the same thing: L3Harris Integrated course is a waste of money, there are constant delays in the flying phases of training with integrated students at the bottom of the pecking order below MPL and RAF cadets adding months on to the advertised duration of the course. They also say that the students are treated as a number with no regard for the fees they have paid and the lack of communication and service they are receiving. A lot of reviews mention that the pilot placement pool is nothing to be excited about, the links that L3Harris has with airlines is dwindling and most students manage to find their own job quicker and with no help from the company (this could be pre covid of course when jobs were in abundance). I did speak to a careers advisor at L3 who mentioned that since the MPL cadet programmes are not running at the moment then there shouldn't be any extra delays in the flying phases due to oversubscription of students but the reviews still paint L3 in a bad light.

Is there any current or past L3Harris students here, or anyone in the know, that are able to confirm or elaborate on the above concerns? I get the feeling I have been fooled by the L3Harris marketing and I may as well pay less money and go to a less well known flight school but get a better service and potentially have the same chance of finding my own job as if I went to L3.

Many thanks in advance for any advice.
futurepilot22 is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2021, 16:34
  #2 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,417
There is sufficient advice on PPRuNe as to the ‘challenges’ of being a L3 customer.
You seem to recognise that Snake Oil Salesmen exist.
I recently gave advice as to what potential junior birdmen need to consider before spending their hard earned cash. I suggest you read that, and other sound advice by RUDESTUFF in his posts. Do this research before proceeding any further.


Obtain your Class One Medical before anything else.
parkfell is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2021, 18:48
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 658
You have been given the information through PPRuNe. Disregarding the white noise around here the overall point repeatedly made is that L3 have no influence with any airlines in the UK because there Is virtually zero pilot recruitment. If they tell you any different you are being lied to. They do apparently have some foreign contracts plus the Air Force but do not expect to be delay free and do not expect much respect in return for the overpriced product. It has been repeatedly said and if you are genuinely enthusiastic about Aviation, take the modular route, enjoy the journey and when the time comes you will be eligible for any airline that survives the current carnage. Do not be fooled by marketing experts, they are after your cash. There are repeated warnings on here and caveat emptor really applies. Good luck anyway.
olster is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2021, 19:22
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 19

thanks for your post. Sorry I am new to PPRuNe. Where can I find the advice given by you and RUDESTUFF?
futurepilot22 is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2021, 20:30
  #5 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,417
Return to my post, and select my user name. The drop menu gives an option to view other posts.
For Rudestuff use the search engine top of the screen.
parkfell is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2021, 21:25
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: FLSomething
Posts: 165
Iíll keep it short, I was with L3 as it was changing over from CTC. Holy smokes are they cowboys. You are absolutely right in what youíve heard. Nothing more than a number with a dollar sign around your neck.

They want you to meet the minimum standard and out the door as fast as they possibly can, regardless of how much your training suffers. Unless, of course. Itís cheaper to delay you and take other peopleís money. Then theyíll do that, be safe they couldnít even pretend to give a toss about you as an individual.

All they are good at is branding.

I have NEVER met anyone with a good thing to say about them.
VariablePitchP is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2021, 22:11
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 19

You know you have basically just confirmed it for me. I have been the typical sucker for their advertising and their so called world-renowned reputation and airline links. I havn't came across a single review that doesn't criticise their delays and lack of care for the student. Their airline links appear to be dwindling and those who supposidly got job offers with L3's pilot placement pool before they had even finished their course seem to be a thing of the past. Everyone on PPRuNe is right, why pay all that money for the same license you can get elsewhere at half the price, especially in this current climate. I made the naive decision that going with L3 would increase my job prospects all because of their superb marketing. Shame their customer satisfaction isn't so superb. I am now reconsidering the smaller flight schools and the modular route. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Thanks for taking the time to voice your experience.
futurepilot22 is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2021, 23:35
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: DAVER
Posts: 87
Going to any training provider is insanity at the moment.
Ascoteer is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 09:08
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 397
Why? Anyone starting to train in the next few months will be spat out of the system in eighteen months to two years time.
Tay Cough is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 09:33
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spain
Age: 42
Posts: 61
What makes you think there will be jobs in just 18 months time? The pandemic is still raging globally, international travel restrictions are getting WORSE not better. There are 10s of thousands of unemployed experienced pilots. The industry is crippled and has little capital to expand afterwards, and any expansion will be throttled by environmental concerns. 18 months is waaaaaaayyyyyy too soon.
Chief Willy is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 10:26
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Joined 2005 was Alycidon
Posts: 31
The financial fallout of the pandemic will also hamper airline expansion.
D9009 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 13:57
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 4
I agree. This pandemic is just way too unpredictable to be putting estimates and dates on when the pilot shortage will return. I finish school in 2 years and I really want to become an airline pilot but i'm very sceptical as I know there's a massive chance that i might leave a flight school in 2024-25 with upwards of £120,000 of debt with no pilot jobs available, which would be a total nightmare.
dogeatdog1 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 14:31
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,175
There is no way on Gods earth I would consider flight training right now. It's an absolute waste of money.
Contact Approach is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 15:35
  #14 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,417
Go to university & study something you enjoy. Reassess in your final year
parkfell is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 16:22
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: London
Posts: 4
Yeah, I was thinking a course in aviation management or maybe aerospace engineering; they sound quite interesting and they'd give me a foothold in the theory side of ATPL training if i did decide to go ahead with it. Even if I don't become a pilot i'd still quite like to work in the aviation sector.
dogeatdog1 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2021, 19:22
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,293
Nothing beats a 3 year degree - level course in preparing you for a 6 month GCSE - level course 👍
rudestuff is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2021, 22:20
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 33
Posts: 139
Integrated flight training is insanity right now. Go modular if you must start training, it’s cheaper and you control the amount of time it takes and effort, weather and performance depending of course.

Are you in a job already or out of work? If you’re in a job you can obviously do the job part time and fly/study the rest.
squidie is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2021, 06:09
  #18 (permalink)  

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 70
Posts: 3,955
condor - that's actually not a bad idea - there are very few solicitors who really understand what the authorities can and cannot do
paco is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2021, 15:59
  #19 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,417

Excellent idea. Flying for pleasure is fun as well; when things calm down, you can think again.
Probably aged 40 as the cut off, although others will undoubtedly have their views…!
parkfell is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2021, 14:58
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Within 3 hours of a suitable alternate
Posts: 68
I have a very close connection with them at the moment, what do I think..... Just don't
The ground courses are a total shambles
They will have zero interest in you as an individual
You won't be able to contact anyone if you have a problem
They've fired a lot of ground instructors, the remaining ones say they hate the company
Initial flying training is now done in Portugal or Southern Ireland by contractors
Capt Ecureuil is offline  

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