Direct EASA approved CPL/IR ATOs in UK
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Direct EASA approved CPL/IR ATOs in UK
I understand that a number of schools have direct EASA approvals so that they can continue to offer training for the EASA CPL/MEP/IR in the U.K.
Question is - where do they conduct the IR Skill test?
My understanding is that is has to be done in an EASA state. So how do the likes of Stapleford, Aeros, L3 etc do this? Does it mean taking the test in unfamiliar airspace?
They are in the same position as the likes of Oxford and CTC used to be in, doing most of the course in Arizona / NZ, but then they had to return to the (at the time EASA) U.K. to do the IR.
Question is - where do they conduct the IR Skill test?
My understanding is that is has to be done in an EASA state. So how do the likes of Stapleford, Aeros, L3 etc do this? Does it mean taking the test in unfamiliar airspace?
They are in the same position as the likes of Oxford and CTC used to be in, doing most of the course in Arizona / NZ, but then they had to return to the (at the time EASA) U.K. to do the IR.
Your understanding is correct - the EASA IR skill test must be taken in one of the member states. Additionally, the course must include acclimatisation flying in that member state precisely so that the candidate will be familiar with the airspace in which the test will be conducted. It will be worth checking that the quoted cost of the course includes incidental expenses (accommodation, food, etc.) incurred as a result of this requirement.
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Also be aware that the UK CAA may not recognise EASA training at these ATOs because their approvals only came into effect the day after exit day. UK only recognises EASA certificates 'current and valid' at exit day. This may not be an issue if they have parallel UK approvals. selfin had an observation about the requirement to test in EASA airspace only applying to a certain group of ATOs but I cannot, I'm afraid, recall the detail. He may be able to help.
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To clarify CAE Oxford students complete the me IR in Brussels so afaik there isnt much me IR training at Oxford now. CAE have been under DK ATO status for many years. Not sure if they will get a GBR ato status. I would highly recommend avoiding CAE.
FTA based at Shoreham fly over the channel to France for the EASA IR training. Aeros now have a channel Island base so can fly into European airspace. An initial EASA IR cannot be done in UK airspace.
FTA based at Shoreham fly over the channel to France for the EASA IR training. Aeros now have a channel Island base so can fly into European airspace. An initial EASA IR cannot be done in UK airspace.
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Have CAE closed completely at Oxford now? I know the groundschool closed at the end of March. It was supposed to move to Gatwick, but I think they only had two or three contract instructors left and that was insufficient to get any courses going.
The IR is what was done after they came back from Arizona so there cannot be much left there.
The IR is what was done after they came back from Arizona so there cannot be much left there.
Last edited by B61; 2nd Jun 2021 at 06:01.
Educated Hillbilly
B61, CAE Oxford have been under Danish ATO approval for years (and the Oslo and Antwerp sites as well), it was nothing to do with Brexit, they haven't held a UK GBR approval for some time. Students were told to transfer to DK because of the fact Oxford only had a DK ATO approval and didn't have the UK GBR approval. Alhough EASA ATOs can still teach for UK Part FCL for two years if the ATO was in place on the 31/12/2020, so it is questionable if the transfer to DK was required?
Infact they have left some UK students high and dry with EASA licenses issued after Brexit with out access to the easy converison to Part UK FCL. No one at CAE management can have read the SI that the UK CAA issued in September 2020 judging by the incorrect advice UK students received.
There was a large transfer of Instructors and ops staff to leading edge.
Prior to Covid there were indeed students sub contracted out to Brno and Airways, however not sure what the situation is on that. There had been large delays at Oxford with students taking on average 2.5 years to complete rather than 18 months recently.
I think they still have the C182s doing single engine phase training at Oxford, alot of the senecas were transferred to Oslo and Brussels. I can't see much of a future for the Oxford site, although the Oxford name is used around the world (OxfordSaudi for example) so it may be the case CAE need to keep it artificially (small subsidised opearation) open for the name.
Infact they have left some UK students high and dry with EASA licenses issued after Brexit with out access to the easy converison to Part UK FCL. No one at CAE management can have read the SI that the UK CAA issued in September 2020 judging by the incorrect advice UK students received.
There was a large transfer of Instructors and ops staff to leading edge.
Prior to Covid there were indeed students sub contracted out to Brno and Airways, however not sure what the situation is on that. There had been large delays at Oxford with students taking on average 2.5 years to complete rather than 18 months recently.
I think they still have the C182s doing single engine phase training at Oxford, alot of the senecas were transferred to Oslo and Brussels. I can't see much of a future for the Oxford site, although the Oxford name is used around the world (OxfordSaudi for example) so it may be the case CAE need to keep it artificially (small subsidised opearation) open for the name.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 2nd Jun 2021 at 06:24.
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CAE bought the Oxford name specifically, as portsharbourflyer said it has been exported globally, Oxford Melbourne, Gondia in India, and most recently Saudi. I can't see them selling the name but they certainly have been trying to ride the brand hard.
As for the CAE Oxford site, many of the instructors have taken redundancy, and contractors told their services are not required, instructor numbers are down from 18-20 to 6. From 5 Senecas there are now 2, the rest gone to Oslo and Antwerp but still 4 or 5 C182s. 2 of the 3 FNPT2 sims have left for Antwerp too. Regarding students there, all the ground school has been moved over to Crawley/Gatwick, CAE have a large simulator facility there, the flight students look to be drying up slowly too, either back to basic training in Phoenix or all in EASA-land.
Rumour is that the airport want the building back to demolish and rebuild with a new ATC tower, along with the student halls near the entrance.
As for the CAE Oxford site, many of the instructors have taken redundancy, and contractors told their services are not required, instructor numbers are down from 18-20 to 6. From 5 Senecas there are now 2, the rest gone to Oslo and Antwerp but still 4 or 5 C182s. 2 of the 3 FNPT2 sims have left for Antwerp too. Regarding students there, all the ground school has been moved over to Crawley/Gatwick, CAE have a large simulator facility there, the flight students look to be drying up slowly too, either back to basic training in Phoenix or all in EASA-land.
Rumour is that the airport want the building back to demolish and rebuild with a new ATC tower, along with the student halls near the entrance.
Last edited by Hats.On.To.Fly; 3rd Jun 2021 at 08:55.
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The proposed demolition is no surprise. The modern building Leading Edge occupy make the CAE facility look like a case study for slum demolition. On the plus side, it does prepare pilots for the state of the average airport crew room! Is the student halls (Langford) due for demolition because they are in the same dilapidated state?
With a couple of twins, some 172s and 6 instructors it’s little more than a flying club. I cannot image they want to keep the name because all trace of the Oxford name was erased and replaced with CAE three plus years ago.
With a couple of twins, some 172s and 6 instructors it’s little more than a flying club. I cannot image they want to keep the name because all trace of the Oxford name was erased and replaced with CAE three plus years ago.
