6 Brittania Cadetships up for grabs
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Next door
Goodness, good news does take a long time to travel. We heard about this development here in Jerez weeks ago. Course kick off date probably no earlier than January which means completion by spring of 2004. Numbers mentioned 6 to 8 (course max is 14).
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 359
Likes: 10
From: London
Out of the running too unless they allow more A levels in, have Economics A level and an Economics based degree, although maths was harder than A level standard in the degree, still can't apply 
Ah well thats life.
Having just read through the sponsorship info on the BALPA website, have been thinking.
Brits have informed BALPA:, a degree is said to be an advantage, so realistically they looking for people 22-26.
Still a bit shocked at the A Level criteria, and not only because I don't have 2 in the chosen subjects.
In all honesty I can't see why Economics is preferred, and I have Economics A level, yes there is a bit of basic maths, yes there is reading of graphs but there is also a lot of essay writing.
Chemistry, well if Chemistry is in it, why isn't Biology <?>, and before I get flamed I don't have Biology A level either, just thinking out loud.
I understand that Physics and Maths helps with ATPL exams, not sure if Economics does unless you are distracted and attempting to work out the profit maximising price of your course notes etc
In reality I think they would like to say only Physics and Maths but probably feel that is slightly too strict.
Anyway A level situation might change when Britannia officially publicise it but doubt it, same with hours of flying. Britannia haven't actually finalised plans now have they. Thats the optimist in me btw.
Time will tell,
Good luck to those that can apply, keep your chin up to those that can't.
And on for a final note, Malgus were advertising in the Metro today. Marketing is getting better, you have to send a letter off to the Heathrow division (good start, sounds impressive to those that saw the big headling DO YOU WANT TO BECOME A COMMERCIAL PILOT), then I looked at the address and Heathrow has moved to Berkshire
Sagey
Ah well thats life.
Having just read through the sponsorship info on the BALPA website, have been thinking.
Brits have informed BALPA:, a degree is said to be an advantage, so realistically they looking for people 22-26.
Still a bit shocked at the A Level criteria, and not only because I don't have 2 in the chosen subjects.
In all honesty I can't see why Economics is preferred, and I have Economics A level, yes there is a bit of basic maths, yes there is reading of graphs but there is also a lot of essay writing.
Chemistry, well if Chemistry is in it, why isn't Biology <?>, and before I get flamed I don't have Biology A level either, just thinking out loud.
I understand that Physics and Maths helps with ATPL exams, not sure if Economics does unless you are distracted and attempting to work out the profit maximising price of your course notes etc
In reality I think they would like to say only Physics and Maths but probably feel that is slightly too strict.
Anyway A level situation might change when Britannia officially publicise it but doubt it, same with hours of flying. Britannia haven't actually finalised plans now have they. Thats the optimist in me btw.
Time will tell,
Good luck to those that can apply, keep your chin up to those that can't.
And on for a final note, Malgus were advertising in the Metro today. Marketing is getting better, you have to send a letter off to the Heathrow division (good start, sounds impressive to those that saw the big headling DO YOU WANT TO BECOME A COMMERCIAL PILOT), then I looked at the address and Heathrow has moved to Berkshire
Sagey
Last edited by Sagey; 20th August 2002 at 18:50.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
Diggler,
that is how should I put it...hogwash. It greatly undermines professional wannabe-ism. We pay good money to get ourselves in what is meant to be a better position, and look where it gets us!
I've got a PPL with around 60 hours. Only about 23 of those are P1. If the limit were 150 hours, that would've been fair enough. Once you have a PPL, you got to maintain it - bad habits or not!
that is how should I put it...hogwash. It greatly undermines professional wannabe-ism. We pay good money to get ourselves in what is meant to be a better position, and look where it gets us!
I've got a PPL with around 60 hours. Only about 23 of those are P1. If the limit were 150 hours, that would've been fair enough. Once you have a PPL, you got to maintain it - bad habits or not!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: UK
Helpful as this post seems there are a few very strange things in it.
Firstly airlines advertise sponsorships in Flight International and other such journals and occasional the national press, not in the members section of the BALPA website (BALPA of course being a union for airline pilots, not generally those wanting to become one).
Secondly all sponsorships I have ever heard off, despite the fact that they often state "no flying experience necessary", require the applicant to hold a PPL to have any chance of making it past the initial selection rounds. The airline is going to invest a substancial amount of money in training you and wants to see two things before you start :
1. You do actually have the ability to fly an aircraft and pass some exams in the process - this is what your lengthy training will require.
2. Secondly - they want to make sure you are serious about this and are not going to drop out when the going gets tough - your seriousness is demonstrated by the fact you have forked out several thousand pounds of your own dosh on a PPL.
You need to be a BALPA member to get into the members area to see this advert that is being talked about. Does it cost money to be a member?
Is there anything on the airlines website?
I am yet to be convinced, but am willing to be convinced.
Firstly airlines advertise sponsorships in Flight International and other such journals and occasional the national press, not in the members section of the BALPA website (BALPA of course being a union for airline pilots, not generally those wanting to become one).
Secondly all sponsorships I have ever heard off, despite the fact that they often state "no flying experience necessary", require the applicant to hold a PPL to have any chance of making it past the initial selection rounds. The airline is going to invest a substancial amount of money in training you and wants to see two things before you start :
1. You do actually have the ability to fly an aircraft and pass some exams in the process - this is what your lengthy training will require.
2. Secondly - they want to make sure you are serious about this and are not going to drop out when the going gets tough - your seriousness is demonstrated by the fact you have forked out several thousand pounds of your own dosh on a PPL.
You need to be a BALPA member to get into the members area to see this advert that is being talked about. Does it cost money to be a member?
Is there anything on the airlines website?
I am yet to be convinced, but am willing to be convinced.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 359
Likes: 10
From: London
You do not have to be a member to read the info, if you go to their website, click on becoming a pilot and then download the adobe file, it gives a list of airlines that sponsor and a piece on the Brits one.
Although I agree that Brits haven't confirmed anything, although they may have been in consultation with BALPA about their plans. BALPA could have jumped the gun (in a helpful kinda way, by publicising it).
Everyone will just have to wait and see until Britannia announce it on their website or in aviation mags.
Sagey
Although I agree that Brits haven't confirmed anything, although they may have been in consultation with BALPA about their plans. BALPA could have jumped the gun (in a helpful kinda way, by publicising it).
Everyone will just have to wait and see until Britannia announce it on their website or in aviation mags.
Sagey
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Timzsta, I do not completely agree...
First, do not assume that it will not advertised elsewhere. Just because you have not seen it anywhere yet does not mean that it wont be advertised. Get ready!
Second, they would not be the first airline to hire people with little or no experience....many airlines (including BA) have done it in the past. Rigorous selection procedures including aptitude tests ensure that candidates have the right attributes to train as pilots. If you have the the basic aptitude you do not need to be a magician/Luke Skywalker to fly a modern airliner. Remember that the RAF still accepts pilot candidates at 18 years of age with A levels. I know PPL's who can hardly add up.
Look guys if it's genuine (and it looks like it is) and the entrance requirements are as stated.....then tough, that's the way it is. It disqualifies me as well. I'm sure they have their reasons for doing it. Don't let people like 'The Diggler' wind you up!!!
And the most annoying thing about all of this....
I bet you some little smart arse just like our Mr. Diggler will get the cadetship!! Shame.. he should stick to earning his 'gold stars' at McDonalds.
First, do not assume that it will not advertised elsewhere. Just because you have not seen it anywhere yet does not mean that it wont be advertised. Get ready!
Second, they would not be the first airline to hire people with little or no experience....many airlines (including BA) have done it in the past. Rigorous selection procedures including aptitude tests ensure that candidates have the right attributes to train as pilots. If you have the the basic aptitude you do not need to be a magician/Luke Skywalker to fly a modern airliner. Remember that the RAF still accepts pilot candidates at 18 years of age with A levels. I know PPL's who can hardly add up.
Look guys if it's genuine (and it looks like it is) and the entrance requirements are as stated.....then tough, that's the way it is. It disqualifies me as well. I'm sure they have their reasons for doing it. Don't let people like 'The Diggler' wind you up!!!
And the most annoying thing about all of this....
I bet you some little smart arse just like our Mr. Diggler will get the cadetship!! Shame.. he should stick to earning his 'gold stars' at McDonalds.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
In The Air,
There are plenty of other sponsorships which do require a PPL or previous flying experience, it appears that this one does not. Don't spit your dummy out because on this occasion you don't fit the bill. Britannia, and the others performing the selection have probably thought this through.
Best of luck for those who apply for this opportunity.
For those who don't have the relevant degree in basket weaving, crack on with the next one.
There are plenty of other sponsorships which do require a PPL or previous flying experience, it appears that this one does not. Don't spit your dummy out because on this occasion you don't fit the bill. Britannia, and the others performing the selection have probably thought this through.
Best of luck for those who apply for this opportunity.
For those who don't have the relevant degree in basket weaving, crack on with the next one.
Terrier
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: moonbase alpha
Everyone, it is Brits' trainset, they can ask for whatever they like.
I understand they do a lot of work with a psychologist now. They have probably been advised this is the best profile for successful pilots!! Bullsh?t perhaps but that is my guess.
I spoke to Maggie Pecnik at BALPA the other day. She told me she was trying to persuade Brits and the others to guarantee interviews to suitable candidates who attend the BALPA employment opportunities conference in October.
It may be worth calling to find if that is true......it could give you an invaluable headstart.
TS
I understand they do a lot of work with a psychologist now. They have probably been advised this is the best profile for successful pilots!! Bullsh?t perhaps but that is my guess.
I spoke to Maggie Pecnik at BALPA the other day. She told me she was trying to persuade Brits and the others to guarantee interviews to suitable candidates who attend the BALPA employment opportunities conference in October.
It may be worth calling to find if that is true......it could give you an invaluable headstart.
TS
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
Well it seems like a very half arsed way of starting up a cadet scheme to my eyes.
Talk of "bad habits" accquired during PPL flying being a problem in later Integrated course training is drivel. As an Integrated course instructor I much preferred the students who had done some prior flying off their own backs. The Wunder Kids picked by a certain airline with ZERO hours sometimes found that they didn't particularly like flying.
WWW
Talk of "bad habits" accquired during PPL flying being a problem in later Integrated course training is drivel. As an Integrated course instructor I much preferred the students who had done some prior flying off their own backs. The Wunder Kids picked by a certain airline with ZERO hours sometimes found that they didn't particularly like flying.
WWW
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
WWW,
How's this for a slightly cynical view then.
The school (BAe Systems Jerez??) have imposed the Minuimum hours criteria because that way there is more training to perform (extra 30+ hours) and consequently more wedge at the end of the day for them.
Stands back and awaits the flaming.......
How's this for a slightly cynical view then.
The school (BAe Systems Jerez??) have imposed the Minuimum hours criteria because that way there is more training to perform (extra 30+ hours) and consequently more wedge at the end of the day for them.
Stands back and awaits the flaming.......
Terrier
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
From: moonbase alpha
WWW,
You can hardly call Britannia Airways "half arsed" can you really?
They have been around longer than you , and possibly, just possibly their senior pilot management who make the decisions on who does and doesn't get in have done quite a lot more instructing than you did before flying the 737!! Be that military or civilian!
I think they probably have the keys to the machine don't you?
No amount of criticism or moaning will change it! They will recruit as they see fit, and in the past Brits have ALWAYS done things their own way!
Not criticism, just an observation. (By the way, have you banked your share option cheque yet?!? Lucky f????r!)
Whoever gets these sponsorships will be made for life. Good luck everyone.
You can hardly call Britannia Airways "half arsed" can you really?
They have been around longer than you , and possibly, just possibly their senior pilot management who make the decisions on who does and doesn't get in have done quite a lot more instructing than you did before flying the 737!! Be that military or civilian!
I think they probably have the keys to the machine don't you?
No amount of criticism or moaning will change it! They will recruit as they see fit, and in the past Brits have ALWAYS done things their own way!
Not criticism, just an observation. (By the way, have you banked your share option cheque yet?!? Lucky f????r!)
Whoever gets these sponsorships will be made for life. Good luck everyone.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Next door
Diggler,
Slightly cynical, I think so.
Speculative bull!!!!!, hmm, probably.
Short term BAE Systems could potentially make more money out of a student who needs extra hours but it won´t look too tidy to Britannia if one or two of their cadets graduate way behind their fellow cadets. Nor, I imagine, does it suit BAE Systems accommodation planning which right now is running to 100% capacity.
Slightly cynical, I think so.
Speculative bull!!!!!, hmm, probably.
Short term BAE Systems could potentially make more money out of a student who needs extra hours but it won´t look too tidy to Britannia if one or two of their cadets graduate way behind their fellow cadets. Nor, I imagine, does it suit BAE Systems accommodation planning which right now is running to 100% capacity.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Could it be that it's easier to run a course for a number of people who all have equal experience (like none)? I would imagine planning a course for students with varying ability/experience (be it PPL or whatever) is more difficult than planning a course for people with none.
It probably makes no odds to BAE or Brit as they probably pay a fixed price per candidate for the whole course....
From keeping an eye on the press it appears more often than not scholarships require at least a PPL, usually more. So instead of whinging on about the fact they want candidates with little or no experience, try concentrating a little bit harder on getting on a course which does require some experience.
Surely, in many years to come you'll savour the days when you used to prop up the bar (cashing cheques for fivers!) in the flying club complaining about the crappy British weather (hence your lack of funds). Isn't that what being an instructor is all about??
You may have to work harder for it, but hey, you'll appreciate it more...
It probably makes no odds to BAE or Brit as they probably pay a fixed price per candidate for the whole course....
From keeping an eye on the press it appears more often than not scholarships require at least a PPL, usually more. So instead of whinging on about the fact they want candidates with little or no experience, try concentrating a little bit harder on getting on a course which does require some experience.
Surely, in many years to come you'll savour the days when you used to prop up the bar (cashing cheques for fivers!) in the flying club complaining about the crappy British weather (hence your lack of funds). Isn't that what being an instructor is all about??
You may have to work harder for it, but hey, you'll appreciate it more...
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
From: Right Here.
Just get on with it....
So youve got 31 hours? Big deal! Just send your application in and see what happens. BALPA arent ALWAYS correct and maybe the recruitment agency will see something they like.
If not, work your way to the 200hr mark which was their previous requirement for Direct Entry. There are plenty of us low timers in the holding pool.
MAX
If not, work your way to the 200hr mark which was their previous requirement for Direct Entry. There are plenty of us low timers in the holding pool.
MAX
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
Tailscrape - I clearly wasn't calling Britannia as an airline half arsed. The Britannia mates that I am drinking with this weekend would object for a start...
For a major airline cadetship scheme to be discovered via an obscure BALPA web page is half arsed. Possibly there will be an ad in Flight soon or something..!?
The management of Britannia is perfectly free to stipulate eligibility criteria. My comments were from the perspective of the instructor having to teach someone from zero to CPL IR in <120hrs flight time.
The share option money is currently sat in my bank account whilst I test drive TVR Griffith 500s. And, yes, I am a lucky ******.
WWW
For a major airline cadetship scheme to be discovered via an obscure BALPA web page is half arsed. Possibly there will be an ad in Flight soon or something..!?
The management of Britannia is perfectly free to stipulate eligibility criteria. My comments were from the perspective of the instructor having to teach someone from zero to CPL IR in <120hrs flight time.
The share option money is currently sat in my bank account whilst I test drive TVR Griffith 500s. And, yes, I am a lucky ******.
WWW
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: UK
This looks very much like the real thing. E-mail the address given on the first page of this post and you will get a reply in less than a day.
Good luck to all, lets hope this is a sign of better things to come.
Good luck to all, lets hope this is a sign of better things to come.
Last edited by timzsta; 22nd August 2002 at 18:02.