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Final days for Oxford ?

Old 18th Nov 2020, 10:06
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B61
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Final days for Oxford ?

I saw on the CAE Interactive website that their latest course AP439 has started groundschool at their future base at Gatwick. Looks like the other courses will gradually finish and groundschool end at Oxford in March next year, as stated on other forums.

Latest rumour is they will move the IR flying, which is all that will be left at Oxford, to either Bournemouth or Madrid, depending on what happens on 31st December with a trade deal (or not).

I wonder if they are trying to mirror L3, who are now based at Gatwick (groundschool and sims) and Bournemouth ? L3 are closing in NZ and say they will be doing flying training in the UK and Portugal. It makes sense as businesses do tend to operate in geographical clusters.
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 19:11
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PFD
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I thought L3 had closed Portugal?
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 19:53
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B61
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According to the “L3 to close Hamilton” thread, they are going to consolidate in the UK and Portugal.

Perhaps it is the new aviation manoeuvre called a U-turn? Or maybe “responding nimbly to the rapidly changing business environment”?

it would be best if both L3 and CaE just shut completely and left what little demand for commercial pilot training will be left to the smaller, specialised ATOs. Why do they bother with such peripheral activity? Their reputation among pilots is in tatters (see “L3 the final shafting”) which will eventually come back and bite them in other much bigger revenue generating areas such a simulator sales.

Moving training centres around is just throwing good money after bad. Perhaps it is executive egos, just unwilling to admit they made a mistake in getting involved in takeovers of established training companies?
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 21:03
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B61,
I know the following facts:
CAE Oxford only has a DK, Danish ATO approval and all students have been told to transfer medical records to the Danish CAA in order to allow training after December.

As you know initial EASA IRs can only be conducted in an EASA state, then it will no longer be possible to conduct initial EASA IR tests in the UK when the UK leaves EASA. Alot are hoping there will be some bilateral agreement to allow EASA IR tests in the UK after leaving EASA, however I have heard no confirmation of this.
CAE have IR training centres in both Norway and Belgium, in the event of no bilateral agreement it seems likely that CAE students would be sent to either of these locations for the IR.
CAE Norway were recently advertising for ME IRIs suggesting a ramp up of IR training there.
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 22:15
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B61
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CAE used to have a small school in Antwerp - they closed it in 2017, and the students had to finish in Oxford! Groundschool was kept in Brussels and they promoted it as well as Madrid to diversify in Europe. The big plus point for both is that the classrooms were easily available at these large CAe sim centres.

Norway is a strange choice. Itís a very high cost country, and the icing conditions and darkness must restrict operations in the winter?

Looks like flying at Oxford will stop at the end of the year, and the place will close after the last groundschool course of AP438 finishes early in 2021 then?
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Old 19th Nov 2020, 22:34
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B61,

There has been single engine training at CAE Oxford for the last 18 months for both the integrated ATPL and MPL.

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Old 20th Nov 2020, 07:46
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B61
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Are they using the C182s they brought over from Australia (I think they were based at a school in Adelaide in the Oxford days)?

Or are PA28s being shipped over from Arizona for use at Oxford, Madrid, Brussels and Norway? With the poor old £ buying €1.10 if you are lucky and not much better with the dollar then your cheap, non-EASA offshore location becomes...Oxford!

I still don’t get why they bother with ab-initio flight training though, unless it was just for ME airlines at £150-200k per student. Margins are much higher on sims and the sales they have to the worlds Ministry of Defeats.

So the future student has groundschool at Gatwick, VFR flying at Oxford, IR in Oslo/Brussels/Madrid, and then APS/MCC back in Gatwick?
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 13:09
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ZFT
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"margins are much higher on sims"?

Can you justify that comment because I disagree

​​
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 13:34
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B61,

Correct The C182s which I assumed were originally used for the MPL courses and there is also a few leased in PA28s as well. No PA28s from the US.



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Old 20th Nov 2020, 15:15
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B61
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The C182s were indeed used for the Orange people MPL, problem being they were very busy 6 months of the year, then sat around doing little or nothing for 6 months.

After a spell of very bad weather and a shortage of instructors due numerous departures, causing delays, it was decided to do the MPL VFR flying in Arizona. Looks like the wheel has spun back across the Atlantic again!

Students are finally being taught by EASa qualified instructors at last. Many of the FIs in Arizona were FAA, so it was always a puzzle how they could teach for an EASA CPL/IR when they didn’t actually have one themselves. This was always a bone of contention to instructors in the Uk who had to pass 14 exams to even teach a PPL.

Last edited by B61; 24th Nov 2020 at 21:22.
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