Minimum solo for CPL?

[The Terminator]

So having a look through part-FCL and it seems what I have heard from some integrated CPL/IR pilots is true. They only have 15 hours solo time, for purposes of clarity I will call real solo, and all the rest of the PIC time is made up of SPIC? This to me sounds shockingly low amount of real solo.

Appendix 3

FLYING TRAINING
9. The flying training, not including type rating training, shall comprise a total of at least 195 hours,
including all progress tests, of which up to 55 hours for the entire course may be instrument
ground time. Within the total of 195 hours, applicants shall complete at least:
(a) 95 hours of dual instruction, of which up to 55 hours may be instrument ground time;
(b) 70 hours as PIC, of which up to 55 hours may be SPIC. The instrument flight time as SPIC
shall only be counted as PIC flight time up to a maximum of 20 hours;
(c) 50 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, including one VFR cross-country flight of at least
540 km (300 NM), in the course of which full-stop landings at two aerodromes different
from the aerodrome of departure shall be made; and

I have heard even the QCC is flown SPIC


So in effect, A student from an integrated course can take passengers into the air in a commercial capacity having 1 hour less real solo time than a LAPL needs to take passengers in a non commercial capacity?

[flybyschool]

Although the regulation is looked by my HT, I believe this cannot be true.

from what I was briefed, maximum number of SPIC hours allowed is 20 on an integrated training... and our students conduct a to tal of 80 PIC hours (including the SPIC). This includes also 50 of PIC Cross Country...

don’t know where but your figures must be wrong... or at least, it is completely different to what we Offer in our integrated training

[byrdstrike]

I know that 14 hours of PIC is the requirement for an MPL.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think there’s much of a correlation between how many PIC hours you have and how good a commercial pilot you become.

There’s obviously a very strong focus in the commercial world on CRM and teamwork nowadays, so the skills gained in multi crew simulator hours are, IMHO, more relevant to the job than the number of hours spent by yourself in a Cessna, as valuable as that experience is.

[rudestuff]

That's nothing! In the US it's possible to get a CPL, IR and CFI without ever flying solo...

[Duchess_Driver]

The key parts here are

. The instrument flight time as SPIC
shall only be counted as PIC flight time up to a maximum of 20 hours;

and

(c) 50 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, including one VFR cross-country flight of at least
540 km (300 NM)

Usually 50 hours PIC time is the minimum. Less than the modular requirement, but that’s the advantage of Integrated courses.

[The Terminator]

flybyschool

from what I was briefed, maximum number of SPIC hours allowed is 20 on an integrated training... and our students conduct a to tal of 80 PIC hours (including the SPIC). This includes also 50 of PIC Cross Country...

don’t know where but your figures must be wrong... or at least, it is completely different to what we Offer in our integrated training

My figures are part-FCL the regulations. But I thought the same as you until I heard this was going on. When I did my training the only SPIC time was IFR and VFR PIC was always real solo.


(b) 70 hours as PIC, of which up to 55 hours may be SPIC.


rudestuff, I did not know that. it sounds crazy to me.


Duchess

. The instrument flight time as SPIC
shall only be counted as PIC flight time up to a maximum of 20 hours;

As it says in the regulations that 20 hours applies to instrument flight time, but looking at those regulations that 55 hours SPIC has to come from somewhere, and if it is not from IFR it must me VFR.

[maximus610]

As I understand, from 55 SPIC hours (flown under IFR) only 20 SPIC hours will be counted as PIC instrument flight time. The rest 35 hours will be just PIC towards 70 hours PIC requirement even though it was flown under IFR.

Better ask again this in Instructors & examiners section. Whopity might help you.

[The Terminator]

Not sure if I should start another thread, but does anyone know the different ways that Aircraft and training is being charged?

Of the places I have first hand experience, flight training has been charged as Airborne time plus 10 or 15 minutes (estimate of average taxi time I guess) or just airborne time. But I have heard some schools are billing and logging the time the engine starts until the engine is shut down. From talking to students from other schools they say they put the whole time into their logbook even if they have been sitting in at the hold for 45 minutes. so their well could be big discrepancies in the actual amount of airborne experience between pilots from different schools.

I might try compile a list if I could get more information as it would be of great value to prospective students.

[BDAttitude]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Not sure if I should start another thread, but does anyone know the different ways that Aircraft and training is being charged?
...

In EASA land log-book is block time, i.e. start taxi until parking brake on. So one‘s school is at an intl airport and the other one‘s at a private strip ... that does make a difference. Though I would not say more airtime is better in this case.
Regarding billing ... I‘ve seen it all: True block time, virtual block time (fixed number of minutes added), flight time, wheels off time (weight on wheel switch), IAS greater 30 knots time (don‘t taxi too fast), hobbs time.
It‘s just another point to add to your calculation ... I usually give block time a 15% penalty when comparing charter prices, which is quite significant.