Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

Minimum solo for CPL?

Old 27th Aug 2020, 10:02
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 18
Minimum solo for CPL?

So having a look through part-FCL and it seems what I have heard from some integrated CPL/IR pilots is true. They only have 15 hours solo time, for purposes of clarity I will call real solo, and all the rest of the PIC time is made up of SPIC? This to me sounds shockingly low amount of real solo.

Appendix 3

FLYING TRAINING
9. The flying training, not including type rating training, shall comprise a total of at least 195 hours,
including all progress tests, of which up to 55 hours for the entire course may be instrument
ground time. Within the total of 195 hours, applicants shall complete at least:
(a) 95 hours of dual instruction, of which up to 55 hours may be instrument ground time;
(b) 70 hours as PIC, of which up to 55 hours may be SPIC. The instrument flight time as SPIC
shall only be counted as PIC flight time up to a maximum of 20 hours;
(c) 50 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, including one VFR cross-country flight of at least
540 km (300 NM), in the course of which full-stop landings at two aerodromes different
from the aerodrome of departure shall be made; and

I have heard even the QCC is flown SPIC


So in effect, A student from an integrated course can take passengers into the air in a commercial capacity having 1 hour less real solo time than a LAPL needs to take passengers in a non commercial capacity?
The Terminator is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2020, 11:05
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Leon, Spain
Posts: 30
Although the regulation is looked by my HT, I believe this cannot be true.

from what I was briefed, maximum number of SPIC hours allowed is 20 on an integrated training... and our students conduct a to tal of 80 PIC hours (including the SPIC). This includes also 50 of PIC Cross Country...

donít know where but your figures must be wrong... or at least, it is completely different to what we Offer in our integrated training

flybyschool is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2020, 11:45
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: London
Posts: 2
I know that 14 hours of PIC is the requirement for an MPL.

For what itís worth, I donít think thereís much of a correlation between how many PIC hours you have and how good a commercial pilot you become.

Thereís obviously a very strong focus in the commercial world on CRM and teamwork nowadays, so the skills gained in multi crew simulator hours are, IMHO, more relevant to the job than the number of hours spent by yourself in a Cessna, as valuable as that experience is.
byrdstrike is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2020, 13:23
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Age: 42
Posts: 438
That's nothing! In the US it's possible to get a CPL, IR and CFI without ever flying solo...
rudestuff is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2020, 17:52
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hotel this week, hotel next week, home whenever...
Posts: 1,403
The key parts here are

. The instrument flight time as SPIC
shall only be counted as PIC flight time up to a maximum of 20 hours;
and

(c) 50 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, including one VFR cross-country flight of at least
540 km (300 NM)
Usually 50 hours PIC time is the minimum. Less than the modular requirement, but thatís the advantage of Integrated courses.
Duchess_Driver is online now  
Old 27th Aug 2020, 21:11
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 18
flybyschool
from what I was briefed, maximum number of SPIC hours allowed is 20 on an integrated training... and our students conduct a to tal of 80 PIC hours (including the SPIC). This includes also 50 of PIC Cross Country...

donít know where but your figures must be wrong... or at least, it is completely different to what we Offer in our integrated training
My figures are part-FCL the regulations. But I thought the same as you until I heard this was going on. When I did my training the only SPIC time was IFR and VFR PIC was always real solo.


(b) 70 hours as PIC, of which up to 55 hours may be SPIC.


rudestuff, I did not know that. it sounds crazy to me.


Duchess
. The instrument flight time as SPIC
shall only be counted as PIC flight time up to a maximum of 20 hours;
As it says in the regulations that 20 hours applies to instrument flight time, but looking at those regulations that 55 hours SPIC has to come from somewhere, and if it is not from IFR it must me VFR.
The Terminator is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2020, 13:41
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Meteorology Avenue 17
Age: 40
Posts: 172
As I understand, from 55 SPIC hours (flown under IFR) only 20 SPIC hours will be counted as PIC instrument flight time. The rest 35 hours will be just PIC towards 70 hours PIC requirement even though it was flown under IFR.

Better ask again this in Instructors & examiners section. Whopity might help you.
maximus610 is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 13:57
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 18
Exclamation

Not sure if I should start another thread, but does anyone know the different ways that Aircraft and training is being charged?

Of the places I have first hand experience, flight training has been charged as Airborne time plus 10 or 15 minutes (estimate of average taxi time I guess) or just airborne time. But I have heard some schools are billing and logging the time the engine starts until the engine is shut down. From talking to students from other schools they say they put the whole time into their logbook even if they have been sitting in at the hold for 45 minutes. so their well could be big discrepancies in the actual amount of airborne experience between pilots from different schools.

I might try compile a list if I could get more information as it would be of great value to prospective students.
The Terminator is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 15:02
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: EDSP
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by The Terminator View Post
Not sure if I should start another thread, but does anyone know the different ways that Aircraft and training is being charged?
...
In EASA land log-book is block time, i.e. start taxi until parking brake on. So one‘s school is at an intl airport and the other one‘s at a private strip ... that does make a difference. Though I would not say more airtime is better in this case.
Regarding billing ... I‘ve seen it all: True block time, virtual block time (fixed number of minutes added), flight time, wheels off time (weight on wheel switch), IAS greater 30 knots time (don‘t taxi too fast), hobbs time.
It‘s just another point to add to your calculation ... I usually give block time a 15% penalty when comparing charter prices, which is quite significant.
BDAttitude is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.