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Resumption of commercial training in UK - when?

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Resumption of commercial training in UK - when?

Old 7th Jun 2020, 18:46
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Resumption of commercial training in UK - when?

What are people’s thoughts on when modular flight schools in the UK will be allowed to operate training flights again, i.e. IR and CPL?

I’ll give my opinion first and say Q4 2020, however my pessimistic side would say 2021.

My flight school just keeps saying “it’ll be a few weeks” etc. but I honestly can’t see how it can happen any time soon.

What timeframes / messages are others getting from their flight school on when operations are likely to return?

Also need to consider that the CAA aren’t allowing any initial IR / CPL skill tests at the moment too.

Last edited by Magpie32; 7th Jun 2020 at 19:44.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:52
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For PPL, my pessimistic side says when social distancing is no longer a thing. Optimistic side tells me when driving lessons are allowed to resume.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 14:01
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Agreed—I don't see how flight training can stay suspended once driving lessons are permitted again; they're the exact same scenario so far as the risk of transmission is concerned.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 22:41
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Originally Posted by flyingkeyboard View Post
For PPL, my pessimistic side says when social distancing is no longer a thing. Optimistic side tells me when driving lessons are allowed to resume.
I agree with your reasoning for both ends of the spectrum.

The government’s insistence on social distancing (whether it be 2m or potentially 1m) is the main reason why I think it will be months, not weeks, before we can get back to it.

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Old 8th Jun 2020, 22:52
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Originally Posted by genrebegoode View Post
Agreed—I don't see how flight training can stay suspended once driving lessons are permitted again; they're the exact same scenario so far as the risk of transmission is concerned.
Somehow I don’t see our government applying the same common sense you exhibit here - but I hope they do.

Flying lessons will be looked on as a hobby and therefore the least priority. Whereas there’ll be calls to resume driving training to allow people to gain a licence which they may need for starting a new job etc.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 09:35
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de minimus non curat lex
 
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FTE Jerez recommenced training 25 May on site, with restrictions gently being eased.

I would speculate that 29 June onwards will see significant UK improvements.
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Old 18th Jun 2020, 17:17
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Looks like some progress...

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Old 18th Jun 2020, 17:40
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It is quite possible that you will find when the dust settles that the CAA never had the authority to stop commercial flight training in the first place.

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Old 18th Jun 2020, 17:58
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Serious question here.

Is there any point in commercial flight training at the moment? Unless you are very near the end of the course you might as well have a bonfire with your money. There are going to be thousands of experienced and type rated pilots out there and probably several hundred going after every vacancy. Of which there are currently close to zero.
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Old 18th Jun 2020, 18:07
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Shhhhh, L3 said that was supposed to be a secret.
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Old 18th Jun 2020, 18:17
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Such short memories everyone, I suggest everyone should research the recruitment practices in the last downturn; prior to the very intermittent recruitment boom of 2017 to 2019, a lot of low hour integrated students via SSTR schemes were getting jobs at the low cost ahead of experienced turboprop pilots. As long as an airline has no issues with the demographic of experience within the airline, then a low hour cadet on a SSTR on a flight pay only flight deal is a lot cheaper than paying a SFO experienced on type.
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Old 18th Jun 2020, 18:45
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If Union recognition exists, might not there be agreement to reemploy those who experienced compulsory redundancies from the holding pool, before taking on junior birdmen?
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Old 18th Jun 2020, 19:13
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With respect, SSTR and flight pay only is hardly a job!

An airline job pays a decent wage with a pension scheme. Death in service. Maybe a uniform provided and annual leave. Car parking. Medical paid for. Sick pay. Private health. Staff travel.
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Old 18th Jun 2020, 22:57
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
If Union recognition exists, might not there be agreement to reemploy those who experienced compulsory redundancies from the holding pool, before taking on junior birdmen?
This one is also related to the national labour legislation in the country where the retrenchment took place. Some labour codes require that any vacancy announced within X months after retrenchment shall first be offered to those who were made redundant and only then to external applicants. However, a lot of that is somewhere in the grey. Was the individual fired purely because of the reduced amount of work in the company or did it carry an aspect of "unsatisfactory performance" or anything of that kind? Was the unlucky one a company employee or a contractor whose employer is effectively the agency and not the airline? Re-hiring of a former employee can be enforced by court even in a non-unionised airline - but with many ifs and buts attached to it.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 07:15
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There will be a pecking order within the holding pool so that ‘LIFO’
(CR reversal) occurs first.

After that those who come under the categories of deficiencies ‘proficiency/ competency’ (failed~resit) & active final warning letters will be bottom of the barrel to be rehired and were selected before the original LIFO list.

There will invariably be variations on a theme. What unfortunately is likely to happen is that a significant number will be doing a “Capt Oates”.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 12:51
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It is quite possible that you will find when the dust settles that the CAA never had the authority to stop commercial flight training in the first place.
Did the CAA stop any flight training Alex, commercial or otherwise?
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 10:00
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Yes, they (at least the DfT) certainly banned what they termed 'recreational flying' with exemptions that were so tight (Search & Rescue etc.) that commercial instruction was difficult to place in either camp. Was it 'recreational flying' or did it fall under 'absolutely necessary to fly for work'? I accept that this is DfT not CAA - I have an idea the CAA website had other statements but they will probably be removed by now, I will have a look around. DfT statement of 31 March below....

“Current government guidance on coronavirus precludes recreational GA flying.

“This is being observed in practice by the vast majority of the GA community, and we are grateful to them for doing so. The message we are receiving from the GA community is that they fully appreciate the need for these restrictions, and observing them is being widely encouraged throughout the community. Again, we are grateful for this.

“Because the directive to stay at home is being well observed, we do not perceive a need to introduce a specific ban on flying by visual flight rules (VFR) as seen in some European countries. This will have the significant benefit of allowing flexibility, and allowing GA flights to resume as overarching restrictions on movement are lifted.

“The above does not apply to search and rescue operations, or where it absolutely necessary to fly to, or for, work. In all of these activities, we expect public organisations and businesses to be socially responsible in the decisions they make, and to apply social distancing guidelines.”

and from the same current DfT Covid document


Last edited by Alex Whittingham; 21st Jun 2020 at 10:13.
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Old 23rd Jun 2020, 08:34
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So not the CAA but the DfT which, you rightly point out is not the same. My understanding is that the CAA has only provided guidance concerning how to restart recreational flying, commercial training and in time, recreational flight training in accordance with DfT statements based on HMG social distancing and essential working practice during the Covid-19 pandemic.
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Old 24th Jun 2020, 14:47
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Yes you are right, thank you
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