Resumption of commercial training in UK - when?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2008
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
Resumption of commercial training in UK - when?
What are people’s thoughts on when modular flight schools in the UK will be allowed to operate training flights again, i.e. IR and CPL?
I’ll give my opinion first and say Q4 2020, however my pessimistic side would say 2021.
My flight school just keeps saying “it’ll be a few weeks” etc. but I honestly can’t see how it can happen any time soon.
What timeframes / messages are others getting from their flight school on when operations are likely to return?
Also need to consider that the CAA aren’t allowing any initial IR / CPL skill tests at the moment too.
I’ll give my opinion first and say Q4 2020, however my pessimistic side would say 2021.
My flight school just keeps saying “it’ll be a few weeks” etc. but I honestly can’t see how it can happen any time soon.
What timeframes / messages are others getting from their flight school on when operations are likely to return?
Also need to consider that the CAA aren’t allowing any initial IR / CPL skill tests at the moment too.
Last edited by Magpie32; 7th June 2020 at 19:44.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2008
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 59
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From: UK
The government’s insistence on social distancing (whether it be 2m or potentially 1m) is the main reason why I think it will be months, not weeks, before we can get back to it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2008
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
Flying lessons will be looked on as a hobby and therefore the least priority. Whereas there’ll be calls to resume driving training to allow people to gain a licence which they may need for starting a new job etc.
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: SW1A 2AA
Serious question here.
Is there any point in commercial flight training at the moment? Unless you are very near the end of the course you might as well have a bonfire with your money. There are going to be thousands of experienced and type rated pilots out there and probably several hundred going after every vacancy. Of which there are currently close to zero.
Is there any point in commercial flight training at the moment? Unless you are very near the end of the course you might as well have a bonfire with your money. There are going to be thousands of experienced and type rated pilots out there and probably several hundred going after every vacancy. Of which there are currently close to zero.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: From the Hills
Such short memories everyone, I suggest everyone should research the recruitment practices in the last downturn; prior to the very intermittent recruitment boom of 2017 to 2019, a lot of low hour integrated students via SSTR schemes were getting jobs at the low cost ahead of experienced turboprop pilots. As long as an airline has no issues with the demographic of experience within the airline, then a low hour cadet on a SSTR on a flight pay only flight deal is a lot cheaper than paying a SFO experienced on type.
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 234
Likes: 12
From: SW1A 2AA
With respect, SSTR and flight pay only is hardly a job!
An airline job pays a decent wage with a pension scheme. Death in service. Maybe a uniform provided and annual leave. Car parking. Medical paid for. Sick pay. Private health. Staff travel.
An airline job pays a decent wage with a pension scheme. Death in service. Maybe a uniform provided and annual leave. Car parking. Medical paid for. Sick pay. Private health. Staff travel.
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 704
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From: Europe
This one is also related to the national labour legislation in the country where the retrenchment took place. Some labour codes require that any vacancy announced within X months after retrenchment shall first be offered to those who were made redundant and only then to external applicants. However, a lot of that is somewhere in the grey. Was the individual fired purely because of the reduced amount of work in the company or did it carry an aspect of "unsatisfactory performance" or anything of that kind? Was the unlucky one a company employee or a contractor whose employer is effectively the agency and not the airline? Re-hiring of a former employee can be enforced by court even in a non-unionised airline - but with many ifs and buts attached to it.
de minimus non curat lex
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,510
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From: sunny troon
There will be a pecking order within the holding pool so that ‘LIFO’
(CR reversal) occurs first.
After that those who come under the categories of deficiencies ‘proficiency/ competency’ (failed~resit) & active final warning letters will be bottom of the barrel to be rehired and were selected before the original LIFO list.
There will invariably be variations on a theme. What unfortunately is likely to happen is that a significant number will be doing a “Capt Oates”.
(CR reversal) occurs first.
After that those who come under the categories of deficiencies ‘proficiency/ competency’ (failed~resit) & active final warning letters will be bottom of the barrel to be rehired and were selected before the original LIFO list.
There will invariably be variations on a theme. What unfortunately is likely to happen is that a significant number will be doing a “Capt Oates”.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 613
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From: London
It is quite possible that you will find when the dust settles that the CAA never had the authority to stop commercial flight training in the first place.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
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From: Bristol, England
Yes, they (at least the DfT) certainly banned what they termed 'recreational flying' with exemptions that were so tight (Search & Rescue etc.) that commercial instruction was difficult to place in either camp. Was it 'recreational flying' or did it fall under 'absolutely necessary to fly for work'? I accept that this is DfT not CAA - I have an idea the CAA website had other statements but they will probably be removed by now, I will have a look around. DfT statement of 31 March below....
“Current government guidance on coronavirus precludes recreational GA flying.
“This is being observed in practice by the vast majority of the GA community, and we are grateful to them for doing so. The message we are receiving from the GA community is that they fully appreciate the need for these restrictions, and observing them is being widely encouraged throughout the community. Again, we are grateful for this.
“Because the directive to stay at home is being well observed, we do not perceive a need to introduce a specific ban on flying by visual flight rules (VFR) as seen in some European countries. This will have the significant benefit of allowing flexibility, and allowing GA flights to resume as overarching restrictions on movement are lifted.
“The above does not apply to search and rescue operations, or where it absolutely necessary to fly to, or for, work. In all of these activities, we expect public organisations and businesses to be socially responsible in the decisions they make, and to apply social distancing guidelines.”
and from the same current DfT Covid document
“Current government guidance on coronavirus precludes recreational GA flying.
“This is being observed in practice by the vast majority of the GA community, and we are grateful to them for doing so. The message we are receiving from the GA community is that they fully appreciate the need for these restrictions, and observing them is being widely encouraged throughout the community. Again, we are grateful for this.
“Because the directive to stay at home is being well observed, we do not perceive a need to introduce a specific ban on flying by visual flight rules (VFR) as seen in some European countries. This will have the significant benefit of allowing flexibility, and allowing GA flights to resume as overarching restrictions on movement are lifted.
“The above does not apply to search and rescue operations, or where it absolutely necessary to fly to, or for, work. In all of these activities, we expect public organisations and businesses to be socially responsible in the decisions they make, and to apply social distancing guidelines.”
and from the same current DfT Covid document
Last edited by Alex Whittingham; 21st June 2020 at 10:13.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 613
Likes: 1
From: London
So not the CAA but the DfT which, you rightly point out is not the same. My understanding is that the CAA has only provided guidance concerning how to restart recreational flying, commercial training and in time, recreational flight training in accordance with DfT statements based on HMG social distancing and essential working practice during the Covid-19 pandemic.
