Conversion: ICAO SA CPL to EASA CPL + Frozen ATPL
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Conversion: ICAO SA CPL to EASA CPL + Frozen ATPL
Hi,
Before I start, I have used the search function, but I can't figure it out as it seems not to be common practice.
My idea is to obtain an (ICAO) CPL in South Africa, which I would like to convert to an EASA CPL in Europe. To Convert this I have to do the practical exams. Regarding the theoretical part, I was thinking to do a ATPL theory course, because this includes CPL and IR theory and it is only 1 exam more than just converting it to the CPL only and would give me the "frozen ATPL" credit. I was wondering if this is a feasible idea?
Why do would I like to do this? The cost in South-Africa to obtain the CPL is significantly lower than in Europe and in this way I would still be able to build hours as an instructor in Europe after obtaining the instructor rating in Europe.
Hopefully, someone can help me out. Thanks in advance!
Before I start, I have used the search function, but I can't figure it out as it seems not to be common practice.
My idea is to obtain an (ICAO) CPL in South Africa, which I would like to convert to an EASA CPL in Europe. To Convert this I have to do the practical exams. Regarding the theoretical part, I was thinking to do a ATPL theory course, because this includes CPL and IR theory and it is only 1 exam more than just converting it to the CPL only and would give me the "frozen ATPL" credit. I was wondering if this is a feasible idea?
Why do would I like to do this? The cost in South-Africa to obtain the CPL is significantly lower than in Europe and in this way I would still be able to build hours as an instructor in Europe after obtaining the instructor rating in Europe.
Hopefully, someone can help me out. Thanks in advance!
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Educated Hillbilly
Daniel,
To clarify if you obtain a South African CPL/IR, then the conversion is as you stated, sit the 14 ATPL exams, to convert the CPL it is then training as required and the EASA skill test, then to convert an ICAO IR it will be a minimum of 15 hours training and the EASA IR test. I did note that you only mentioned CPL in your post, was your plan to do the CPL initially then do the IR at a later date? So that is all quite achievable. You are correct there is little point sitting the stand alone 9 EASA CPL exams as it gives no cross credit to the ATPL so it is best just to do the 14 ATPL exams from the start.
Regard to working as an instructor in Europe, we need information on your nationality (we can make assumptions based on your posting name) but unless you have EU or EEA nationality then I doubt you would get a work visa to work as an instructor (though again not impossible but more difficult without the nationality).
The other thing to be aware of is the current state of the Aviation industry. While there was an instructor shortage, I expect there will soon be a glut of instructors, as former instructors lose airline jobs there will be several looking to come back to instructing and alot of fresh qualifiers opting for instructor rating in absence of any other option.
To clarify if you obtain a South African CPL/IR, then the conversion is as you stated, sit the 14 ATPL exams, to convert the CPL it is then training as required and the EASA skill test, then to convert an ICAO IR it will be a minimum of 15 hours training and the EASA IR test. I did note that you only mentioned CPL in your post, was your plan to do the CPL initially then do the IR at a later date? So that is all quite achievable. You are correct there is little point sitting the stand alone 9 EASA CPL exams as it gives no cross credit to the ATPL so it is best just to do the 14 ATPL exams from the start.
Regard to working as an instructor in Europe, we need information on your nationality (we can make assumptions based on your posting name) but unless you have EU or EEA nationality then I doubt you would get a work visa to work as an instructor (though again not impossible but more difficult without the nationality).
The other thing to be aware of is the current state of the Aviation industry. While there was an instructor shortage, I expect there will soon be a glut of instructors, as former instructors lose airline jobs there will be several looking to come back to instructing and alot of fresh qualifiers opting for instructor rating in absence of any other option.
What you propose will work but isn't the cheapest option.
Getting a foreign CPL just so that you can convert it to EASA is ALWAYS going to be more expensive than going straight for an EASA CPL.
Don't get me wrong, going to SA (or Canada or the US) is a great idea. But don't go there for a CPL. Get a PPL, get an IR and get at least 50 hours of PIC under IFR. Then come back and convert the IR and do a 15 hour CPL.
Do not get a SA CPL unless you intend to work in SA.
Getting a foreign CPL just so that you can convert it to EASA is ALWAYS going to be more expensive than going straight for an EASA CPL.
Don't get me wrong, going to SA (or Canada or the US) is a great idea. But don't go there for a CPL. Get a PPL, get an IR and get at least 50 hours of PIC under IFR. Then come back and convert the IR and do a 15 hour CPL.
Do not get a SA CPL unless you intend to work in SA.
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Thanks all for your valuable advice!
Great to hear it would be possible, but the whole point of going to SA would be the cost (and a bit of adventure). I was thinking about getting as much as possible done in SA (including IR), but I heard indeed that converting the CPL is more difficult and costly than converting the PPL. Thanks, I will take your advice and look into the possibilities to get the PPL + IR in SA, then convert the IR and do the CPL and instructor training in Europe.
That's also something I am worried about, who knows how long it takes for the flight industry to pick up, and as you said, with pilots getting laid off there will probably be an influx of highly skilled instructors. I do think (and hope) however that the aviation industry is kinda back to normal in a year or two, with many around me dying to travel again. I am an EU citizen working in Hong Kong at the moment.
Great to hear it would be possible, but the whole point of going to SA would be the cost (and a bit of adventure). I was thinking about getting as much as possible done in SA (including IR), but I heard indeed that converting the CPL is more difficult and costly than converting the PPL. Thanks, I will take your advice and look into the possibilities to get the PPL + IR in SA, then convert the IR and do the CPL and instructor training in Europe.
That's also something I am worried about, who knows how long it takes for the flight industry to pick up, and as you said, with pilots getting laid off there will probably be an influx of highly skilled instructors. I do think (and hope) however that the aviation industry is kinda back to normal in a year or two, with many around me dying to travel again. I am an EU citizen working in Hong Kong at the moment.
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Certainly as has been said the conversion isn’t always the cheapest route. The U.K. CAA have guidelines “for training as required” or credit and low hours Conversions usually only qualify for about 7 hours credit - can’t remember the exact numbers but they’re in CAP804.
From experience, most low hours students coming back to convert are rarely ready - yeah they can fly a aeroplane but it’s all the associated “command” decisions on the spot and local procedures that cause issues.
From experience, most low hours students coming back to convert are rarely ready - yeah they can fly a aeroplane but it’s all the associated “command” decisions on the spot and local procedures that cause issues.
Converting isn't necessarily a bad idea if you've already got a foreign CPL, but getting one just to convert it would be. Both the SA and EASA CPLs require 200 hours. So getting one then converting to the other will mean you end up using more hours in the long run. As mentioned above there are reductions in the course - but the CPL course is only 15 hours anyway (with an IR) so it's far cheaper and easier to just do that.
Where you will save a fortune is with the IR. Do it early and you can hour build IFR, killing two birds with one stone. With a foreign IR and 50 hours IFR PIC you are exempt all training for the EASA IR (You'll need some, obviously)
Where you will save a fortune is with the IR. Do it early and you can hour build IFR, killing two birds with one stone. With a foreign IR and 50 hours IFR PIC you are exempt all training for the EASA IR (You'll need some, obviously)
