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Becoming a pilot After COVID-19

Old 18th May 2020, 11:25
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Madrid
Posts: 18
I need some advice, as this is the most important and uncertain decision I have ever faced.

I am a 29 year old aerospace engineer. I quit my job on January to start integrated ATPL. Now I’m 4 months into the course and seems the worst moment to start this huge investment as the future looks bad for pilots. I don’t want to make a decision such as quitting the course, just in the very peak of pessimism. I would need some more time to understand what the near future is gonna be like, as for now we know nothing. But the longer I take to decide, the more money I loose in this ATPL attempt. I might not get back 7-12K€ for this 4 months.

If I were to start the course now, the decision would be easy. I’d just do modular course. And if things went well I would continue, if bad, I would just stay at PPL, and at least experience flying.
I want to be a pilot no matter what, but current reality is a continuous big slap on my face.

Looking for a non pilot job, for the next 3-10 years is a reality. But sooner or later I’ll pursue this dream again, as there is nothing else I want to do. But could I get hired in the future, in maybe 10 years from now, me being 39?

To understand my risk, I’d be paying the course remortgaging a house I own, shared with my sister. But the next years look bad to find a job also for me, having an engineering degree. Won’t be the best moment to have a 80K€ debt.

Im asking for advice to friends, pilots, engineers, and everyone I trust.
It would be helpful a to see some opinions here.
so, what would you do?
Spid is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 11:50
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 265
Remortgaging a home to pay for training? You must be out of your mind.

Get a PPL and do ATPL in your spare time while working would be the most I would recommend to go for now due to the market being the worst it's ever been.
Negan is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 12:43
  #163 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by Spid View Post
........I might not get back 7-12K€ for this 4 months......
..... It would be helpful to see some opinions here.
so, what would you do?
Cut your losses NOW. Damage limitation exercise. Spend no more on training.

Revert to the modular flying element route once a vaccine becomes available.
There will be a significant lag between that future moment, and airlines gearing up again.

The C-19 will invariably mutate, and in common with seasonal flu, a yearly vaccine will be produced.

Do not have a large debt with no prospect of repaying it. Severe impact on future credit worthiness.
parkfell is online now  
Old 18th May 2020, 16:20
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: UK North
Posts: 41
[QUOTE=fcom;10781904
The airlines are delusional when they predict only a 40% reduction in passenger travel over the next 12 months. The airlines are losing millions per week and the government loans will only give them about 8 months of breathing space before they are back to square one. This is only phase one of redundancies and many more will follow after September when the passengers don’t return in sufficient numbers, aviation will never be the same again because without a vaccine in the next 12 months airlines will fail and recovery will take a minimum of 5 years to recover but once again only with a cure. My advice is think very carefully about starting your training anytime soon, wait for a vaccine and then start, and by the time you finish you may be in the right position to get your dream job. Good luck[/QUOTE]

I agree totally with this.....Flight Schools are being irresponsible by promoting Integrated Courses at this time and should switch everyone to Modular.
Bridgestone17 is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 17:10
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 115
One thing to consider, and I stress I have no inside information whatsoever but I offer this as a general point of principle.

Once upon a time (otherwise known as January this year), the big integrated schools looked like rock solid businesses where your cash would be safe as houses. Now? Who knows. You have well established airlines talking about the current situation as an existential threat. Could these business ultimately fail over the coming months/years? Almost unthinkable until recently but if I was looking at sizeable payments for integrated training I would be thinking carefully about my exposure to these sorts of risks.

Yet another reason why, second only to postponing your training, modular looks like the smartest option right now.
Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 20:35
  #166 (permalink)  
kpd
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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remember cabair?
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Old 18th May 2020, 22:28
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
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TBH the integrated schools did not look like that in January, they looked like there was already something badly wrong. Look back on the posts
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Old 19th May 2020, 06:59
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: UK North
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Originally Posted by kpd View Post
remember cabair?
Certainly do - I worked there when they went bust and they still owe me money. Some chance eh?
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Old 19th May 2020, 08:46
  #169 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by flying25 View Post
I should (hopefully) be starting my Integrated ATPL program in July......

The sheer volume of content is making it hard for me to know what the best strategy is prior to starting the course.

Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
Presumably you are aware that a tsunami has hit aviation?

What is your assessment as to when you might gain employment?

Your best strategy is to delay the course until a vaccine is available, unless of course money is no object and the course will not create a mountain of debt.....

Modular might be the wiser option until Crystal Balls are fully “S”.
parkfell is online now  
Old 20th May 2020, 16:05
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: london
Posts: 2
Modular Student Post Covid 19

Modular student currently doing my PPL at Redhill aviation. Given the current state of the industry i am u sure where continuing my training is the right thing to do for now i plan to finish my PPL first. I was wondering what people thought of the timeline is spacing out a good idea would i end up finishing my training potentially during a next hiring wave.
Night Rating - October 2020

Hour Building: September 2020- February 2022

ATPLs: September 2022 - December 2023 (15months ATPLs Passed ) -

Commercial Training- June 2024 Multi- Engine Piston Rating : Multi- Engine instrument rating: CPL
Peter Ahonsi is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 17:39
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 115
I just thought you were a bit of an idiot to be fair.
Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 19:29
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Oslo
Posts: 15
Time and patience...Aviation has weathered many a storm. We can arm chair quarterback this till we are blue in the face but negativity will only make things worse.
OlsAconye is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 05:40
  #173 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by MichaelOLearyGenius View Post
honestly did anyone believe me when I wrote this. Irony obviously missed.
What isn’t missed is your total lack of empathy for those unfortunate trainees caught up in this tsunami.
You are a feckless imbecile.
parkfell is online now  
Old 21st May 2020, 06:58
  #174 (permalink)  
Educated Hillbilly
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: From the Hills
Posts: 846
Peter_Ahons, if you are worried about finishing training in a hiring wave then its best for you to stop flying now and go find a different industry.
In the last 20 years the only hiring boom was probably the previous 3 years just before the covid.

Anytime out side of that it was always difficult to get the first flying job, often people would have taken 3 to 5 years to find the first multi crew job in the period between 2000 to 2014 (the main exception to that were those placed by the integrated schools and those paying 30k to Ryanair for a rating). There was a small peak around late 2007 followed by the downturn in 2008.
I doubt we will see recruitment levels of the previous three years ever again (again based on the trend of the last 20 years then in 17 years time, who knows), and I will say this again the last three years was the exception not the normal, the last three years has given too many people a false perception of the industry. Flight training was always a gamble.
If you are single with no commitments then generally there are/will be opportunities somewhere at some point.
portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 07:02
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 323
Originally Posted by Peter Ahonsi View Post
Modular student currently doing my PPL at Redhill aviation. Given the current state of the industry i am u sure where continuing my training is the right thing to do for now i plan to finish my PPL first. I was wondering what people thought of the timeline is spacing out a good idea would i end up finishing my training potentially during a next hiring wave.
Night Rating - October 2020

Hour Building: September 2020- February 2022

ATPLs: September 2022 - December 2023 (15months ATPLs Passed ) -

Commercial Training- June 2024 Multi- Engine Piston Rating : Multi- Engine instrument rating: CPL
Good idea? Only if money is a problem. Spacing out training makes it more expensive. You have no idea when the next hiring will take place so you want to be ready when it happens. But you don't want to be in possession of an "out-of-date" licence either (where it's been too long since you passed your test)
You should finish your PPL and night rating then take your ATPLs then aim to get your IRR, CBIR and SECPL as quickly as possible. That saves the ATPLs. You won't have a fATPL but you will have a CPL/IR. You'll have spent in total about 4x the cost of your PPL (circa £30k) and when the hiring starts, you can upgrade to a fATPL in a few weeks, then apply for jobs with a 'fresh' MEIR and MCC/JOC. That last bit might not happen quickly, so there's nothing stopping you becoming an FI in the mean time.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 09:14
  #176 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
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Originally Posted by Peter Ahonsi View Post
Modular student currently doing my PPL at Redhill aviation.
WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Just one thing to add ~ confirm that you have been issued with a Class One Medical.
It will lapse eventually into a Class Two, and finally expire.

You can renew it before the expiry of the Class Two, or, if you pause the flying, ensure that it expires by no more than 5 years, otherwise full Initial is required again.

As the outcome of BREXIT v. EASA is still to be resolved, check the validity of the above paragraphs early 2021.
parkfell is online now  
Old 21st May 2020, 09:26
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: holland
Age: 42
Posts: 14
Hi guys,

I am organising a webinar on this issue for young aspiring pilots to ask questions from someone who is an experienced pilot has work experience in alternative industries and recently completed a degree .Having gone through a crisis myself I can imagine the dilemma you all are facing. You will be able to ask questions as it will be a live webinar. If any of you is interested you can register on:
https://she-pilots.com/webinar-registration-planb/

Last edited by klm1234; 21st May 2020 at 11:49.
klm1234 is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 15:19
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: london
Posts: 36
What amazes me is how these conversations ALWAYS descend in to name calling and arguing! People are genuinely looking for advice and help, common sense would say ‘go to a forum with pilots and ask them for assistance’. Give it a few days and it’s chaos.
I understand that people will have different ideas about the way to proceed with training and the effect of COVID on the industry. But let’s try and be mature, help each other out and be respectful to one another.
every thread is full to brim with ‘glossy brochure this’ and ‘mummy and daddy that’ with the odd splattering ‘You are an idiot if you don’t go modular’.
it’s not helpful.
rant over! Peace
harveyst is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 20:35
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Crawley
Posts: 5
Well said! So many bitter comments that aren’t helpful on here and other threads.
WarrenFlight is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 19:53
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 31
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Trickies View Post
Hello,

Hope all are keeping well.

Despite our current extraordinary circumstances. I have been looking into two integrated flight training courses. Those being FTE Jerez and also L3 Harris.
Any information on them? I have read about L3 having a few issues.

What is the general thoughts on going modular, is that more suitable with the issues in the industry?

I am fully aware that the industry is currently in turmoil... would that encourage the modular route being the better?

Thank you
Modular course right now just depends on what your local FTOs offer; it’s definitely the safest approach to flight training. I’d spread it out over a few years, PPL then CPL and re-evaluate before going for MCC/IR etc. With a modular course you can at least put the brake on training if you feel you’re not heading in the right direction for whatever reason.

I have the money myself sat in a bank account and a well paid job so I would suite a modular course better anyway. But I wouldn’t dream of doing an integrated course over the next several years. The risk of financial loss due to upfront costs and lack of jobs plus security mostly.

The industry will recover but we are in no sensible position to predict it any further than what the airline boards have already, which were based on Q1 and partial Q2 figures.
squidie is offline  

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