How much does it cost to become a flying instructor?
Guest
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The validity for the ATPL theory is 7 years. So what happens to line pilots working for such as BA. Do they get sent back to Oxford to brush up and relearn some of the theory needed to pass the ATPL exams again. Surely some must fail due to the nature of the exams and changing syllabuses over the years. This must cost airlines a packet- if a number of pilots have to return to the classroom.
Guest
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Am i still missing something??
How can an IMC save you money? A CPL course is 25hrs, that's 25hrs if you have an IMC and 25hrs if you don't. And those 25hrs will be at commercial training rates IMC or no IMC. The course includes 10hrs instruments an there is no dispensation, that I can find, for an IMC.
If JAA is to be the same for all member countries with a view to standardisation of training etc, why would the give dispensation for a 'private flying' rating which is only valid in the UK!
And why would you be sitting on the ground while other instructors are flying? An IMC is not to be used under commercial flying conditions, and you could certainly not use it in any other country...even Spain!
I may be wrong!
Guest
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You can get 10hrs off your CPL course if you do the IR first,basically it drops the instrument section off the CPL course.However passing an IR course is no mean feat,I dont know whether I would want to do an IR first!!!
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GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!
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GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!
Guest
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Yeah but if you stop reading the regs all the time and watch how things actually work in practice what you find is - on full integrated courses anyway - is that the CFI has discretion about previous flying experience. IF Bloggs has an IMC already then a switched on school can work this to Bloggs financial advantage every time.
As for using an IMC whilst instructing - guys wake up an smell the coffee. Every instructor I ever knew did this. Its standard practice. You are exercising your priviliges as an IMC and as a FI at the same time - no conflict there. There is no clause about commercial use in the IMC rules. The IMC is without doubt a practical and necessary piece of sound airmanship by the UK CAA.
I seem to recall as well that is you roll the IMC rating into the PPL then the 5 hours radio aids and instrument flying part of the PPL can count some way toward the IMC or vice versa therefore reducing costs.
Plus - and this is a big practical point that you don't consider if you just read the regs all day - when building the necessary hours post PPL an IMC rating will allow you to operate more safely, experience a wider range of training details, facilitate valuable basic IF skills.
Trust me - if you train for your PPL in a local area, then consolidate your hours building in the same local area using a lot of IMC flying time in the process and THEN you take your CPL and IR *in the same local area* you will be quids in and streets ahead of those that did some in Florida, some more in their local flying club, a bit more at a commerical school away from home and finally an IR at a major FTO.
Remember - I have been there done this and taught others along the way. I am right.
WWW
ps it'll all be in the book.
As for using an IMC whilst instructing - guys wake up an smell the coffee. Every instructor I ever knew did this. Its standard practice. You are exercising your priviliges as an IMC and as a FI at the same time - no conflict there. There is no clause about commercial use in the IMC rules. The IMC is without doubt a practical and necessary piece of sound airmanship by the UK CAA.
I seem to recall as well that is you roll the IMC rating into the PPL then the 5 hours radio aids and instrument flying part of the PPL can count some way toward the IMC or vice versa therefore reducing costs.
Plus - and this is a big practical point that you don't consider if you just read the regs all day - when building the necessary hours post PPL an IMC rating will allow you to operate more safely, experience a wider range of training details, facilitate valuable basic IF skills.
Trust me - if you train for your PPL in a local area, then consolidate your hours building in the same local area using a lot of IMC flying time in the process and THEN you take your CPL and IR *in the same local area* you will be quids in and streets ahead of those that did some in Florida, some more in their local flying club, a bit more at a commerical school away from home and finally an IR at a major FTO.
Remember - I have been there done this and taught others along the way. I am right.
WWW
ps it'll all be in the book.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I remember whilst training for my PPL that a couple of times my Instructor took me through and on top of cloud.Once on top he gave back control to me and we continued the lesson in the sunshine.Then he took us back through the cloud at the end.
For what its worth I think I shall do an IMC before the majority of my hours building,anything that helps ease me towards the IR has got to help.All experience helps.
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GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!
For what its worth I think I shall do an IMC before the majority of my hours building,anything that helps ease me towards the IR has got to help.All experience helps.
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GET THE BLOODY NOSE DOWN!
Guest
Posts: n/a
WWW,
Sorry for being thick but what does this paragraph below mean? Surely someone who has experienced flying in the states and out of the local area will be a much better pilot for it!
"Trust me - if you train for your PPL in a local area, then consolidate your hours building in the same local area using a lot of IMC flying time in the process and THEN you take your CPL and IR *in the same local area* you will be quids in and streets ahead of those that did some in Florida, some more in their local flying club, a bit more at a commerical school away from home and finally an IR at a major FTO."
Thanks
Tarmach
Sorry for being thick but what does this paragraph below mean? Surely someone who has experienced flying in the states and out of the local area will be a much better pilot for it!
"Trust me - if you train for your PPL in a local area, then consolidate your hours building in the same local area using a lot of IMC flying time in the process and THEN you take your CPL and IR *in the same local area* you will be quids in and streets ahead of those that did some in Florida, some more in their local flying club, a bit more at a commerical school away from home and finally an IR at a major FTO."
Thanks
Tarmach
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry, WWW but a 'switched on school' cannot in ANY shape or form turn having an IMC to the students financial advantage when it comes to CPL. That is NOT correct. The course requires 25hrs and THAT is that. You can get dispensation for an IR, but who on earth would have one of these in advance of a CPL???
We were never talking integrated on this topic and life has moved on a long way (for the worse in my opinion) from your BCPL days.
Under JAA an IMC is not recognised (other than an 'add on' to a UK ppl for UK ppl use only)and that is a sad but true fact. The CPL is now designed to give a reasonable knowledge of IR in some ways in advance of IMC standards
As I have said earlier, an IMC is a good thing to have, but don't for one second think it will save you money.
We were never talking integrated on this topic and life has moved on a long way (for the worse in my opinion) from your BCPL days.
Under JAA an IMC is not recognised (other than an 'add on' to a UK ppl for UK ppl use only)and that is a sad but true fact. The CPL is now designed to give a reasonable knowledge of IR in some ways in advance of IMC standards
As I have said earlier, an IMC is a good thing to have, but don't for one second think it will save you money.
Guest
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There is now only 1hour (yes 1!!!) Required for the JAA PPL, hmmm, safe.
WWW.
Nobody is disagreeing that the IMC is not a good rating to have, but to answer the origional question of how to be an Instructor cheaply, NO the IMC will not help, there are NO reductions in Training, even the extra practice of a IMC at say £80 (Your figure) an hour * 15 hours = £1200 thas an extra 9.5 hours at commercial rates (What I pay for a full airways Arrow5)! if you cant get flying in a straight line be then on instruments theres a problem!
The topic is on how to become an instructor on the modular route, not doing a 50K Abinito, besides you would have an IR from that and getting an IMC would be silly.
I still stand by what I said, get your head round things on the ground on a PC, then the MANDITORY 10hours will be more than enough to get the Instrument section nailed.
It's obvious WWW doesn't like the states, maybe he should try it first? only staying 2hours max from home isn't the best way to gain experience. and the 300nm 'Epic' would be a lot more daunting to 'yokle' student. go see the rest of the world, its good!
WWW.
Nobody is disagreeing that the IMC is not a good rating to have, but to answer the origional question of how to be an Instructor cheaply, NO the IMC will not help, there are NO reductions in Training, even the extra practice of a IMC at say £80 (Your figure) an hour * 15 hours = £1200 thas an extra 9.5 hours at commercial rates (What I pay for a full airways Arrow5)! if you cant get flying in a straight line be then on instruments theres a problem!
The topic is on how to become an instructor on the modular route, not doing a 50K Abinito, besides you would have an IR from that and getting an IMC would be silly.
I still stand by what I said, get your head round things on the ground on a PC, then the MANDITORY 10hours will be more than enough to get the Instrument section nailed.
It's obvious WWW doesn't like the states, maybe he should try it first? only staying 2hours max from home isn't the best way to gain experience. and the 300nm 'Epic' would be a lot more daunting to 'yokle' student. go see the rest of the world, its good!
Guest
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I too would like to be an FI to build hours and get necessary ratings before going onto the airlines.
You want to know my suggestion - Just wait and buy a copy of Today's Pilot next month - it will have a special article section all about the route to becoming a Flight Instructor.
Tri
You want to know my suggestion - Just wait and buy a copy of Today's Pilot next month - it will have a special article section all about the route to becoming a Flight Instructor.
Tri
Guest
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Not really on topic but a flight school in South Africa based at Wonderboom Airport will give you a full Commercial Licence, starting from scratch and including a multi engine IF and instructor's rating for about 12000 squids. Furthermore they offer those who complete the course with them a 12 month contract to work at the school as instructors.
It may not help you much with the JAA qualifications but for flying in Africa it's a good start and you can use your 12 months instructing to earn a salary while you look around for a turbine job with one of the operators who supply aircraft and crews to the UN and Red Cross and other organisations working around Africa.
Give me a shout on the email [email protected] for more info.
Just thought I'd mention it.........
It may not help you much with the JAA qualifications but for flying in Africa it's a good start and you can use your 12 months instructing to earn a salary while you look around for a turbine job with one of the operators who supply aircraft and crews to the UN and Red Cross and other organisations working around Africa.
Give me a shout on the email [email protected] for more info.
Just thought I'd mention it.........
Guest
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well guys! When I did my training we could only follow a route, cpl/scpl/atpl now im stuck with a jaa cpl/ir no option for an upgrade to atpl now.
And to top it all been flying for 15 yrs but I have to take the full 14 exams to become an atpl, 8000 hrs later how sick is that !
So take the atpl before the goalposts move yet again !!!!!!!!!!!!!
And to top it all been flying for 15 yrs but I have to take the full 14 exams to become an atpl, 8000 hrs later how sick is that !
So take the atpl before the goalposts move yet again !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guest
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A number of confusions have sprung up here and I have contributed to a few.
1. People fail tests all the time due to a lack of localarea flying knowledge. Doing all your training in one part of the UK reduces failure rates enormously. This more than offsets savings by hopping around like I did when I self improved.
2. OK, the madatory CPL hours for instrument flying will be logged as such. However, if you already have an IMC then you are a large chunk of the way there and the instructor can use that time to concentrate on areas where people generally need more consolidation prior to GFT (in old terminology). Remember the syllabus was written by a bluntie and what you actually *do* compared to what you actually *log* is often different. Trust your experienced flying instructor to make that judgement.
3. I am a qualified JAA FI IRI. I am under no illusions on how things changed under JAA implementation.
4. As regards the particular case of a FI building hours: if he/she does not have an IMC rating then they will not be able to fly/earn for half the time other FI's with an IMC rating can. He/she will therefore be at a loss in both hours and money accrued. Every time. Without fail. The IMC will have paid for itself within 5 months as a full time FI.
5. Recruiters often look to see how much actual instrument time you have logged. Your 1000hrs instructional all VFR with an IR tagged on the end will impress no-one.
WWW
1. People fail tests all the time due to a lack of localarea flying knowledge. Doing all your training in one part of the UK reduces failure rates enormously. This more than offsets savings by hopping around like I did when I self improved.
2. OK, the madatory CPL hours for instrument flying will be logged as such. However, if you already have an IMC then you are a large chunk of the way there and the instructor can use that time to concentrate on areas where people generally need more consolidation prior to GFT (in old terminology). Remember the syllabus was written by a bluntie and what you actually *do* compared to what you actually *log* is often different. Trust your experienced flying instructor to make that judgement.
3. I am a qualified JAA FI IRI. I am under no illusions on how things changed under JAA implementation.
4. As regards the particular case of a FI building hours: if he/she does not have an IMC rating then they will not be able to fly/earn for half the time other FI's with an IMC rating can. He/she will therefore be at a loss in both hours and money accrued. Every time. Without fail. The IMC will have paid for itself within 5 months as a full time FI.
5. Recruiters often look to see how much actual instrument time you have logged. Your 1000hrs instructional all VFR with an IR tagged on the end will impress no-one.
WWW
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry to drag this out, but we do seem to be putting right some sweeping generalisations here which is good for everyone.
WWW, you state that an instructor without an IMC will do HALF!! the flying of one with.
How does that work then??
Surely the very nature of PPL instruction dictates the need for VFR conditions. So how do you manage to log so much instrument time (even with a full blown IR), when teaching PPL?
Do you use your student's cash to fly hours away from base to where VFR prevails or something?
Not trying to be clever here, just genuinely interested.
WWW, you state that an instructor without an IMC will do HALF!! the flying of one with.
How does that work then??
Surely the very nature of PPL instruction dictates the need for VFR conditions. So how do you manage to log so much instrument time (even with a full blown IR), when teaching PPL?
Do you use your student's cash to fly hours away from base to where VFR prevails or something?
Not trying to be clever here, just genuinely interested.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, some of the PPL syllabus requires instrument flight time either real or simulated so that easy to do in a cloud. The NAvaid work can be done in real IMC. ITs often possible to do - say - medium level turns above a layer of stratus in the clear blue with a cracking horizon: the imc bit gets you up there and back.
WWW
WWW
