How much does it cost to become a flying instructor?
Guest
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You'll need a CPL and an IMC rating (in the real world) plus the ATPL exams done. THEN you can become a flying instructor FOR MONEY.
We are therefore talking in the region on #19k assuming you need a PPL and hours building first. As a minimum.
It used to be cheaper before JAA.... <sigh>
WWW
We are therefore talking in the region on #19k assuming you need a PPL and hours building first. As a minimum.
It used to be cheaper before JAA.... <sigh>
WWW
Guest
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Tarmach
It rather depends upon your start point. The IR is totally irrevevant to the process. Assuming you have a CPL, then the cost is going to be that of a FI Course plus test. Depending on where you go this can vary from about £4500 to £6500.
If you don't have a CPL then you will need at least CPL level knowledge (not ATPL) and a PPL with 150 hours PIC (200 hours total. You must have completed a 300 nm Cross country with two intermediate stops in one day. An IMC rating is not necessary.
It rather depends upon your start point. The IR is totally irrevevant to the process. Assuming you have a CPL, then the cost is going to be that of a FI Course plus test. Depending on where you go this can vary from about £4500 to £6500.
If you don't have a CPL then you will need at least CPL level knowledge (not ATPL) and a PPL with 150 hours PIC (200 hours total. You must have completed a 300 nm Cross country with two intermediate stops in one day. An IMC rating is not necessary.
Guest
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Captain Spud:
To be precise, there is no difference in the Civil instructing world as they no longer exist!
AFI used to be Assistant Flying Instructor which was the basic bod who could not send anyone first solo or first solo local area (in case his judgement was crap and they killed themselves!).
QFI was Qualified Flying Instructor, and they had done an upgrade course and test, and could do all of the above. They could also (with further training) do IMC and Night rating training.
They have been replaced by, respectively, Flight Instructor (Restricted) and Flight Instructor. To move from FI(R) to FI you now only have to do 100 hours instructing, and supervise 25 student solo flights (circuits, nav, local area, but NOT first solos) and be recommended for upgrade by CFI.
Hope this helps.
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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"
To be precise, there is no difference in the Civil instructing world as they no longer exist!
AFI used to be Assistant Flying Instructor which was the basic bod who could not send anyone first solo or first solo local area (in case his judgement was crap and they killed themselves!).
QFI was Qualified Flying Instructor, and they had done an upgrade course and test, and could do all of the above. They could also (with further training) do IMC and Night rating training.
They have been replaced by, respectively, Flight Instructor (Restricted) and Flight Instructor. To move from FI(R) to FI you now only have to do 100 hours instructing, and supervise 25 student solo flights (circuits, nav, local area, but NOT first solos) and be recommended for upgrade by CFI.
Hope this helps.
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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"
Guest
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I have already spent £4,500 on PPL.Will spend about £7000 on hour building over a year whilst i keep my full time job. Will save £2,700 for LGU full time ATPL Theory. This will last 6 months.
Then will borrow £10,000 from HSBC (Professional development loan)
The £10,000 will cover-
£4,500 cpl skills test @Multi Flight
£4,500 FI Course @Multi Flight
Thats just my way of doing it, i hope it helps.Maybe if anyone has a criticism about my way then maybe they could let me know.I dont plan on doing IMC but if you need it then it looks i am going to have to borrow £12k instead of £10.
TOP ONE!!!!!!!!!!
Then will borrow £10,000 from HSBC (Professional development loan)
The £10,000 will cover-
£4,500 cpl skills test @Multi Flight
£4,500 FI Course @Multi Flight
Thats just my way of doing it, i hope it helps.Maybe if anyone has a criticism about my way then maybe they could let me know.I dont plan on doing IMC but if you need it then it looks i am going to have to borrow £12k instead of £10.
TOP ONE!!!!!!!!!!
Guest
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Sorry WWW but in the 'real world' of JAA, forget an IMC.
The new CPL gives you almost as much IR training as an IMC course (and with a commercial instructor). You cannot, and could not use an IMC under 'commercial' flying conditions, including instructing. Yes it is usefull for getting you out of a hole that you should not have been in in the first place, but a JAA CPL teaches you that and more.
And yes! forget CPL ground school. Why on earth not do the ATPL?? It is not much less expensive and, at the end of the day most of us will need a route to ATPL anyway.
The new CPL gives you almost as much IR training as an IMC course (and with a commercial instructor). You cannot, and could not use an IMC under 'commercial' flying conditions, including instructing. Yes it is usefull for getting you out of a hole that you should not have been in in the first place, but a JAA CPL teaches you that and more.
And yes! forget CPL ground school. Why on earth not do the ATPL?? It is not much less expensive and, at the end of the day most of us will need a route to ATPL anyway.
Guest
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Doesnt include accommodation.
It costs about £1950 for the course full time. But then you need to add the cost of the exams onto that £700.
Then add the costs of your accommodation. The lady at LGU said there are some local hostels that are cheap and there are some B&B's about £50 a week.
They also have student halls but they give the priority to their 'Normal' Students!.
TOP ONE- I AM A BUDGIE!!!!!!!!
It costs about £1950 for the course full time. But then you need to add the cost of the exams onto that £700.
Then add the costs of your accommodation. The lady at LGU said there are some local hostels that are cheap and there are some B&B's about £50 a week.
They also have student halls but they give the priority to their 'Normal' Students!.
TOP ONE- I AM A BUDGIE!!!!!!!!
Guest
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Ah, Clear Prop. My dear boy.
When I was teaching people for the CPL, the IMC and indeed the IR in the ACTUAL world of JAA *I* found that if the student had an IMC then you could reduce the Instrument Flying requirements of the CPL training. This results in a significant cost saving.
Sorry to piddle on your campfire.
WWW
When I was teaching people for the CPL, the IMC and indeed the IR in the ACTUAL world of JAA *I* found that if the student had an IMC then you could reduce the Instrument Flying requirements of the CPL training. This results in a significant cost saving.
Sorry to piddle on your campfire.
WWW
Guest
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The CPL requires 25 hrs, 10 of which have to be Instrument, Seems a bit much.
IMHO The scan and radio Nav can be picked up quite cheaply on the ground on the PC. The actual instrument flying practice is easily achievable in that time.
The only benefit of the IMC is the Approach practice you get, again this shouldn’t be used on the commercial flight, but could prove useful, the importance of keeping proficient cannot be stressed enough, although this will be presumably be at ones own expense.
Also bear in mind that an IR has to be issued within 36months of passing the ATPLs, or you might as well start again.
IMHO The scan and radio Nav can be picked up quite cheaply on the ground on the PC. The actual instrument flying practice is easily achievable in that time.
The only benefit of the IMC is the Approach practice you get, again this shouldn’t be used on the commercial flight, but could prove useful, the importance of keeping proficient cannot be stressed enough, although this will be presumably be at ones own expense.
Also bear in mind that an IR has to be issued within 36months of passing the ATPLs, or you might as well start again.
Guest
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little red train,
Does the IR need to be issued before 36 months of passing the ATPLs? What happens if you do the IR much later? 10k is alot of money to find after CPLs etc!
Further to the point what about flying instructors who earn money to invest in an IR later down the road. Surely its best to become a flying instructor and wait before doing the IR as no airline would employ you with only 250hrs, plus you have the revalidation costs of keeping the thing valid until you do find that elusive job!!
Does the IR need to be issued before 36 months of passing the ATPLs? What happens if you do the IR much later? 10k is alot of money to find after CPLs etc!
Further to the point what about flying instructors who earn money to invest in an IR later down the road. Surely its best to become a flying instructor and wait before doing the IR as no airline would employ you with only 250hrs, plus you have the revalidation costs of keeping the thing valid until you do find that elusive job!!
Guest
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Sorry to try and re-ignite my campfire after WWW so rudely pissed on it, but just how can you reduce the mandatory 10 hours of IR training for the CPL if a student has an IMC?
Have I missed something?
Surely 10hrs (Which HAS to be logged) is enough to bring a pilot who has to have at least 150hrs before starting the course, up to pretty well IMC standards in most aspects of the IMC course. If it's not then perhaps there is a problem lurking!
Remember, you cannot use your IMC whilst instructing, and that will be what most of your time in sky will be spent doing.
Having said all that an IMC is not a bad thing to have if you can afford to add it on to your already expensive training.
Back to the original point.
A FI(r) should cost you around 4 to 5k
Tarmach, you are correct. Hold off the IR as long as you can (Max,about 2.5 years after your ATPLS). You will not need it till you are ready to start looking for a job beyond instructing. 1000 instructing hours will build your general flying ability which must help you when it comes to the IR. At any rate if you get one then go on to instruct you will have to keep it current ....more expense!
Back to the campfire before WWW puts it out again!
:zzz
:devil :devil: :lol :lol: :clap :clap: :kbuh :kbuh: :thinker :thinker: :vomit :vomit: :acid :acid: :sleep :sleep: :jumper :jumper: :madashell:
[This message has been edited by clear prop!!! (edited 07 May 2001).]
Have I missed something?
Surely 10hrs (Which HAS to be logged) is enough to bring a pilot who has to have at least 150hrs before starting the course, up to pretty well IMC standards in most aspects of the IMC course. If it's not then perhaps there is a problem lurking!
Remember, you cannot use your IMC whilst instructing, and that will be what most of your time in sky will be spent doing.
Having said all that an IMC is not a bad thing to have if you can afford to add it on to your already expensive training.
Back to the original point.
A FI(r) should cost you around 4 to 5k
Tarmach, you are correct. Hold off the IR as long as you can (Max,about 2.5 years after your ATPLS). You will not need it till you are ready to start looking for a job beyond instructing. 1000 instructing hours will build your general flying ability which must help you when it comes to the IR. At any rate if you get one then go on to instruct you will have to keep it current ....more expense!
Back to the campfire before WWW puts it out again!
:zzz
:devil :devil: :lol :lol: :clap :clap: :kbuh :kbuh: :thinker :thinker: :vomit :vomit: :acid :acid: :sleep :sleep: :jumper :jumper: :madashell:[This message has been edited by clear prop!!! (edited 07 May 2001).]
Guest
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On most courses the madatory Instrument Flying section can be reduced IF the student already holds an IMC. Only applies to UK FTO's of course. IMC training can be had at circa 80 pounds per hour whereas CPL training often weighs in around the 200 pounds per hour mark. Big difference.
Not sure about the comments about not using an IMC when an instructor.
IF you become a FI prior to your IR (which I recommend you do as its easier to pass an IR with 1000hrs instructing under your belt) you need SOME way of flying IMC. The only way for you to do that is to hold an IMC rating yourself...
You'll be a poor FI if you have to sit on the deck all day whilst colleagues blat off into the stratus to do some beacon bashing/VFR on top.
WWW
Not sure about the comments about not using an IMC when an instructor.
IF you become a FI prior to your IR (which I recommend you do as its easier to pass an IR with 1000hrs instructing under your belt) you need SOME way of flying IMC. The only way for you to do that is to hold an IMC rating yourself...
You'll be a poor FI if you have to sit on the deck all day whilst colleagues blat off into the stratus to do some beacon bashing/VFR on top.
WWW
Guest
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Tarmach
CAAs GID25 simply reffers to JAR 1.495:-
"JAR-FCL 1.495 - Acceptance Period
Date: June 1, 2000
(a) A pass in the theoretical knowledge examinations given in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.490 will be accepted for the grant of the CPL(A) or IR(A) during the 36 months from the date of first gaining a Pass or Partial Pass in the required examinations.
[(b) Provided that an IR(A) is obtained in] accordance with (a) above, a pass in the ATPL(A) knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A) [for the issuance of an ATPL(A).]
[(c) A pass in the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of a type rating entered in a F/E licence.] "
I thought I understood the situation, but the or in CPL(A) or IR(A) would suggest a licence issue is required rather than the IR, which would change things drastically, Sorry, slap on the wrist to me... WATFORD where art thou???
also have alook at
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/s...licyUpdate.pdf
seems even less specific.
WWW.
http://www.jaa.nl\jar\jar\jar\jar.fcl.1.155.htm
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/GID24.pdf
The ONLY reduction of Instrument time is with a vailid IR, and IMC Makes no difference to the coarse requirements. however 5hours may be on the ground in an approved machine.
My understanding is the IMC is not a commercial rating, therfore using it in a commercial flight would be illegal.
CAAs GID25 simply reffers to JAR 1.495:-
"JAR-FCL 1.495 - Acceptance Period
Date: June 1, 2000
(a) A pass in the theoretical knowledge examinations given in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.490 will be accepted for the grant of the CPL(A) or IR(A) during the 36 months from the date of first gaining a Pass or Partial Pass in the required examinations.
[(b) Provided that an IR(A) is obtained in] accordance with (a) above, a pass in the ATPL(A) knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A) [for the issuance of an ATPL(A).]
[(c) A pass in the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of a type rating entered in a F/E licence.] "
I thought I understood the situation, but the or in CPL(A) or IR(A) would suggest a licence issue is required rather than the IR, which would change things drastically, Sorry, slap on the wrist to me... WATFORD where art thou???
also have alook at
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/s...licyUpdate.pdf
seems even less specific.
WWW.
http://www.jaa.nl\jar\jar\jar\jar.fcl.1.155.htm
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/GID24.pdf
The ONLY reduction of Instrument time is with a vailid IR, and IMC Makes no difference to the coarse requirements. however 5hours may be on the ground in an approved machine.
My understanding is the IMC is not a commercial rating, therfore using it in a commercial flight would be illegal.