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Training Decisions for Future Career

Old 29th Apr 2019, 02:13
  #1 (permalink)  
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Training Decisions for Future Career

Hi all,

Iím going to be moving to Australia (WA) from the UK soon. Iíll have a visa allowing me to live and work, and then Iíll progress onto permanent residency.

I want to get my PPL, and Night Rating out of the way as soon as possible in order to progress onto ME, IR, CPL, and ATPL. My main goal is to aim for a first officer position at an airline but it seems that it may be much harder than it is in the UK. It appears that nobody really wants you in Australia unless you have at least 1000 hours under your belt.

So, thinking logically, the next best thing while Iíd build hours is becoming a flight instructor after completion of my CPL. Are there many positions for this kind of work? Iíd assume it is a booming market at the moment.

It all comes down to the fact that I donít want to be stuck with £50,000 worth of licensing without a job in sight.

Iím really stuck with the whole situation and any help to clear it up would be much appreciated!

Thanks.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 08:20
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Originally Posted by PomWog View Post
Hi all,

Iím going to be moving to Australia (WA) from the UK soon. Iíll have a visa allowing me to live and work, and then Iíll progress onto permanent residency.

I want to get my PPL, and Night Rating out of the way as soon as possible in order to progress onto ME, IR, CPL, and ATPL. My main goal is to aim for a first officer position at an airline but it seems that it may be much harder than it is in the UK. It appears that nobody really wants you in Australia unless you have at least 1000 hours under your belt.

So, thinking logically, the next best thing while Iíd build hours is becoming a flight instructor after completion of my CPL. Are there many positions for this kind of work? Iíd assume it is a booming market at the moment.

It all comes down to the fact that I donít want to be stuck with £50,000 worth of licensing without a job in sight.

Iím really stuck with the whole situation and any help to clear it up would be much appreciated!

Thanks.
I have the option of Ďstretching outí my route to fATPL (due to current career) so the instructor route is something I am considering also. My understanding is that the training path would be: PPL > hour build, NR and ATPL theory > CPL (single engine) > Instructor ticket. When ready, top up with a MEIR and MCC.

I do have reservations about taking this route, namely that you could end up too comfortable working and instructing part time, meaning that you never make the leap to the airlines due to the risk factor.

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Old 30th Apr 2019, 12:18
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Originally Posted by flyingkeyboard View Post


I have the option of ‘stretching out’ my route to fATPL (due to current career) so the instructor route is something I am considering also. My understanding is that the training path would be: PPL > hour build, NR and ATPL theory > CPL (single engine) > Instructor ticket. When ready, top up with a MEIR and MCC.

I do have reservations about taking this route, namely that you could end up too comfortable working and instructing part time, meaning that you never make the leap to the airlines due to the risk factor.

Dare I ask out of interests sake: the problem with being too comfortable with a particular lifestyle would be what?

These days the airline job isn't necessarily the nirvana some people paint it to be.

Last edited by wiggy; 30th Apr 2019 at 12:29.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 22:46
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
These days the airline job isn't necessarily the nirvana some people paint it to be.
I agree, I've always wanted to aim for a large airline, but the more I think about it, the more I feel I'll enjoy GA.

As the demand for pilots increases, surely the demand for flight instructors will increase too. I feel like this may be the best option for me, though I really want to be sure on my plan before I go through with it. One of the most frustrating part of training within aviation is that you never know where your training will take you, and when or if you're guaranteed a job.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 22:50
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Originally Posted by PomWog View Post
Iím going to be moving to Australia (WA) from the UK soon. Iíll have a visa allowing me to live and work, and then Iíll progress onto permanent residency.

I want to get my PPL, and Night Rating out of the way as soon as possible in order to progress onto ME, IR, CPL, and ATPL.

Define "soon"... you might find you'd be better off in the long run waiting until you move to Australia before doing anything more than a PPL. Licence conversion from EASA to CASA is not exactly a straight forward, box ticking exercise... start here: https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-pag...rseas-licences

Even from NZCAA to CASA can be problematic, and we have the "Trans-Tasman Mutual Recognition Agreement" (aka TTMRA) in place which is meant to make it one!


My main goal is to aim for a first officer position at an airline but it seems that it may be much harder than it is in the UK. It appears that nobody really wants you in Australia unless you have at least 1000 hours under your belt.
Australia has a relatively large GA sector (compared with UK/EU)... as such there has historically been numerous opportunities (especially "up norf") to get your hours before progressing through to the airlines. The "zero2hero" cadetships were not really a thing until relatively recently. Certainly, there is nowhere near the number of 250hr cadets sitting in the RHS of A320's and 737's as there are across the UK/EU.

Having said that, there are cadetship opportunities available from the likes of Jetstar (refer: https://www.jetstar.com/au/en/careers/cadetship-program) although it is "closed" for applications at the moment and I believe there are also cadetships on offer for Qantaslink (Turboprop) and REX (another turboprop operator) ... For the Jetstar cadetship, both course costs (circa AUD$150K for 2019) and barrier to entry are high, as they have very limited placements and obviously a lot of applicants. Not overly familiar with either the QLink or REX ones, so can't comment as to costs involved (I would guess "high" )


So, thinking logically, the next best thing while Iíd build hours is becoming a flight instructor after completion of my CPL. Are there many positions for this kind of work? Iíd assume it is a booming market at the moment.
You can get a feel for the (GA) market conditions by looking at the AFAP job listings... Pilot Jobs

There are generally always listings looking for instructors. Also, in WA, there was a large flight school (China Southern)... but last I heard they had had some issues and had (temporarily) ceased flight training operations. Although looking at the AFAP listings, it would appear that "they've recently started up again".


It all comes down to the fact that I donít want to be stuck with £50,000 worth of licensing without a job in sight.
Iím really stuck with the whole situation and any help to clear it up would be much appreciated!
There are currently a lot of job opportunities in AU, as evidenced by the listings on AFAP, (then are even a few popping up here in NZ! )... although not necessarily low hour RHS Airline jobs. And the music could stop tomorrow and you'd be back looking at 2000 hr minimum for a turboprop FO interview... I guess a lot of it will come down to how old you are, how much funding you have, and when exactly you're relocating to AU.

You might also want to have a browse through these forums:
GA forum for AU/NZ/Pacific: https://www.pprune.org/pacific-gener...-questions-91/
Airline/RPT forum for AU/NZ/Pacific: https://www.pprune.org/australia-new...nd-pacific-90/

They contain a lot of good information... but be warned it could take some reading/digging to find!
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Old 1st May 2019, 00:34
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Thank you so much for your detailed reply, I have had a look on that site before, it appears it changes almost every day!

I'll be moving in July, on a temporary visa, hoping to transfer to permanent residency. I probably won't train past my PPL until I'm sure I'm staying.

I've been daydreaming my whole life about sitting in the flight-deck of an Airbus or Boeing, but in Australia, my dreams are changing fast. The thought of instructing in GA sounds amazing to me at the moment, and I may just take this opportunity up. This will allow me to build hours, and if I decide an airline is the way to go, I will have all the bits and bobs in place.
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Old 1st May 2019, 10:51
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Before you spend anything on training, obtain your Class One Medical otherwise daydreaming it shall remain.
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Old 1st May 2019, 17:10
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
Before you spend anything on training, obtain your Class One Medical otherwise daydreaming it shall remain.
This was already the first step in my plan. I appreciate you telling me too, though!
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Old 3rd May 2019, 23:00
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Dare I ask out of interests sake: the problem with being too comfortable with a particular lifestyle would be what?

These days the airline job isn't necessarily the nirvana some people paint it to be.
Not necessarily a problem. I guess that if an individual has an ambition of flying for the airlines, there could be a case of regret if they never Ďmake ití - especially if the current job doesnít Ďdo ití for them. Iím old and wise enough to appreciate that life is never straightforward and plans can/must change occasionally. I can definitely see the benefits and potential satisfaction of holding down an established non-flying career whilst earning beer tokens and building hours instructing on the side.

Interested on your views on the airlines, if you are able to share.

All the best.
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Old 4th May 2019, 08:02
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Originally Posted by flyingkeyboard View Post
I can definitely see the benefits and potential satisfaction of holding down an established non-flying career whilst earning beer tokens and building hours instructing on the side.
Agreed, as to my POV, well think I and others gripe enough about some aspects of the/an airline life in T&Cs without inflicting too much on the fine folk here..

I do however wonder about the critical thinking of a few, often with family, who express the view that they want to junk an established, possibly lucrative comfortable career to "live the dream" ( as they perceive it)....
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Old 4th May 2019, 12:50
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Originally Posted by PomWog View Post
Thank you so much for your detailed reply, I have had a look on that site before, it appears it changes almost every day!

I'll be moving in July, on a temporary visa, hoping to transfer to permanent residency. I probably won't train past my PPL until I'm sure I'm staying.

I've been daydreaming my whole life about sitting in the flight-deck of an Airbus or Boeing, but in Australia, my dreams are changing fast. The thought of instructing in GA sounds amazing to me at the moment, and I may just take this opportunity up. This will allow me to build hours, and if I decide an airline is the way to go, I will have all the bits and bobs in place.
Hi PomWog!
Australia is a wonderful country but lacks airline pilot opportunities. I know a lot of colleagues who first went from India to Australia but ended in Europe or Mena finding a job at different operators.
From my perspective you shouldn't expect anything but collecting GA hours and having a good time. If possible besides instructing, reach out for a ground services job at an airline or smaller GA company. That gives you some further necessary local connections. After 1 or 2 years you should decide if you was successful or not and act accordingly. In my case I started at the age of 31 in 2017. Everybody told me that I was too old. I finished in February and now I have an invitation for a major airline. Only thing missing is a MCC that I'll start in 3 weeks. I'm pretty happy about it. Back to you. You should set the direction as early as possible. Wishing you all the best.
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