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APS/APC Advanced MCC/JOC courses

Old 24th Jun 2018, 18:51
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2014
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I think Simtech have developed a new APS standard MCC, though its on their new 737 sim.
MaverickPrime is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2021, 15:04
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Barcelona
Age: 29
Posts: 4
Hi guys,

Please allow me to dig up this thread.

I'm currently about to finish my ATPL in Spain, Barcelona Flight School. Originally I was supposed to do the MCC on CAE's A320 FFS in El Prat for 5300€. However my school recently got the certification for their new in house 737 simulator (softek sim) and they now offer a APS MCC (40 hours instead of 20) for 6500€.

As far as I understand, the APS MCC includes a JOC and more sim hours to allow a better transition to jet engines aircrafts.

Anyone here has some feedbacks/thoughts about the real added value of the APS MCC versus the normal MCC?
I'm concerned it might be just another marketing bs from the industry...

On one hand I know that the MCC course at CAE is really solid. All students I know who been there were really satisfied and say the instruction quality was really high.
On the other hand, I know the guys in charge of the APS MCC in my school. They are by far the best instructors I've seen and they're all current commercial pilots. And I'll get an extra training that from I've heard might be requested to apply to some airlines. But that's an additional 1200€ that could maybe better spent elsewhere...
Quentin Juillet is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2021, 10:55
  #23 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,353
APS/MCC on a B.737 is as good as it gets.
Whilst the A.320 is a more sophisticated machine, and is more modern, that is not necessarily what you want at this stage of your apprenticeship, unless you know for certain that Airbus is where you will end up.

The majority of sim assessments as part of the interview process require hand flying where you demonstrate basic skills such as accurate trimming. The Airbus auto trims. Far too easy in my view for junior birdmen starting out on the conversion from light twin to multi crew flying.

Just remember that this course is about teaching you two crew cooperation, working as a crew for the first time. It is not some form of type rating course. The clue is in the name...

Work hard at the preparation for every detail. If you don’t get a sense of déjà vu by trip 4, more effort is required.
Learn your flow checks to perfection.
It is the steepest learning curve you have yet encountered.
The acid test to discover if you are “the right stuff”.
Enjoy it, after all you are paying for it.
parkfell is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2021, 17:12
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 970
It's a BS attempt by various shady airlines to reduce their training costs. Do the bare minimum legally permissible MCC/JOC and don't be afraid to explain why.
Booglebox is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2021, 10:41
  #25 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,353
What Booglebox fails to appreciate is that the more exposure you have to simulator multi-crew operations, the more likely you are to be successful at the all important sim ride as part of the interview process.

Any JOC course is unregulated; those competent ATOs who historically offered MCC/JOC have essentially just had the JOC element approved and now offers APS/MCC as a regulated course.

Telling the Interviewer that APS was associated with “shady airlines” might well prove to be a show stopper?
APS is now defining a higher overall standard than MCC/JOC course which varied in contents.

Last edited by parkfell; 14th Apr 2021 at 13:33. Reason: syntax
parkfell is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2021, 17:47
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Barcelona
Age: 29
Posts: 4
Thank you both for your inputs on the matter.

parkfell fair point regarding the B737 vs A320 argument. He who can do more can do less. For that reason, I actually chose to fly the Piper PA-23 Aztec over the Tecnam 2006T for the multi-engine part of the course at my school. Definitely more complex to operate but also so much more to learn from, and more fun to fly too! Price was the same though so it wasn't really the same situation.

I know another guy with more or less the same background (master's degree in math/engineering) who finished his ATPL last year with a simple MCC (no JOC). And he just passed the Ryanair selection without any problem. That also explains why I may be doubtful about the necessity of the extra expense. If you're serious about knowing your stuff properly before showing up to the interviews it seems that you don't necessarily need these non compulsory additional "prep courses" to make it through. Although I believe that a fair amount of guys I studied with during ground school would definitely need it.

Booglebox I normally only need the MCC to validate my ATPL frozen licence. That's what I can get at CAE. However the JOC is not included and I can see that some companies require it to apply. There lies the questioning about if or not I should put the extra 1200€ on the table to also have it.
Quentin Juillet is offline  

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