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PIC time in logbook in different regulations

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PIC time in logbook in different regulations

Old 18th Dec 2017, 23:04
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Australia
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PIC time in logbook in different regulations

In FAA Part 61.51, it explains that a person can log PIC hours in his/her logbook if the person is the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft and is rated to act as a PIC of that aircraft.
I gather that this means if you are a PPL holder undertaking training with an instructor on-board, you are able to log it as PIC hours.
From speaking with a few friends who trained in US, it looks like it's normal for both the student and the instructor to log the flight as PIC in their logbooks even though the instructor was performing the duty as PIC as long as the student was the sole manipulator of the controls.

I am currently training in Australia and I have CPL. In my experience in Australia, the only time you can log PIC hours in your logbook is if you were the only pilot in the aircraft or if you agree to act as PIC if another pilot is onboard. If the flight is a flight training and there is an instructor onboard, we always log it as a dual time.

I am considering converting my license to a foreign CPL and the number of PIC hours you need is higher than what is required in Australian CPL MOS. Since I've only just met the PIC requirement for Australia, I am about 30 PIC hours short of minimum required for the foreign license I want to convert to.
However, for someone who trained in US under FAA regulations, although the number of total hours and the syllabus received is almost identical, because they are allowed to log some instructed flight training dual flights as PIC, they would be qualified to convert without going away to log additional PIC hours.

In Australian CASA CASR part 61, the logbook requirements are not specified in details as the FAA 61 does and it doesn't go on to define what type of flight trainings can be logged as PIC.

Is there a standard practice in international license conversions that can be used to define actual PIC hours for pilots from different licensing regulations?

Is there a written Australian regulation that defines what exactly can be logged as PIC?

Thank you
guni83 is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2017, 08:51
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I think the US is unique in allowing PIC and dual to be logged at the same time. When I converted FAA to EASA I had to 'reinterpret' my logbook - basically TT-dual=PIC. In your case you'll need to find out how many PIC hours you'll need for the new licence and what is acceptable as PIC to them - the rules you logged those hours under are irrelevant. The UK CAA for example could look at an FAA logbook with 150 PIC hours and say '60 of those were dual, so we'll only count 90 towards a CPL...' Their game their rules.
rudestuff is online now  
Old 20th Dec 2017, 06:30
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 2,978
^^^ This.
FAA students may log PIC when they are rated in the airplane.
So a PPL holder under Instrument instruction or a PPL holder under CPL instruction.
There are more differences.
Under FAA the Instructor is obligated to sign the students logbook for every flight in which instruction is given.
The is not done in Europe for instance which makes it harder to distinguish what exactly took place.
Iíve had many European trained students that lacked sufficient logbook evidence to meet certain FAA requirements.
If I trained initial European students I would show them how to log FAA PIC and EASA PIC in two seperate columns in their logbook.

So back to your case.
You need to find out what the Aviation Authorities require as far as logbook evidence and Training records to satisfy THEIR requirements.
It may very well be that they would not accept the FAA dual/PIC either.
You canít ďmakeĒ PIC hours by converting licenses.
Donít worry about what could have been if youíd done your training elsewhere...since you didnít.
Yes, you may have to fly some more.
B2N2 is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2017, 11:39
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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The UK CAA for example DID look at an FAA logbook
There you go, rudestuff, fixed that for you. Thankfully, yer man could get crew seats out to Florida to rattle off the remaining hours and was back again two weeks later.

Never understood how the FAA can allow this. Who is actually in command? PF, yes, PIC well, er, no!
Duchess_Driver is offline  

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