Trade union representation
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Surrey, England.
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Trade union representation
This is mainly a question for our moderators but if anyone else has a perspective on this, please do contribute.
Over the months I have bee struck by the number of postings containing indications that someone has been shafted in some way by one company or another, whether an employer, an FTO or whoever. It seems to me that what is needed is trade union representation for wannabes. Perhaps BALPA, T&GWU or some other union might be pursuaded to introduce a 'student' or 'graduate' grade of membership for those who have already staked at least some kind of claim in the world of professional flying by, for example, passing ATPL groundschool or paying out for CPL flying training.
Has this ever been tried? What do you think are the chances? Would it achieve a following? Any other views?
Best wishes to all.
Over the months I have bee struck by the number of postings containing indications that someone has been shafted in some way by one company or another, whether an employer, an FTO or whoever. It seems to me that what is needed is trade union representation for wannabes. Perhaps BALPA, T&GWU or some other union might be pursuaded to introduce a 'student' or 'graduate' grade of membership for those who have already staked at least some kind of claim in the world of professional flying by, for example, passing ATPL groundschool or paying out for CPL flying training.
Has this ever been tried? What do you think are the chances? Would it achieve a following? Any other views?
Best wishes to all.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Hi Broomstick,
I dont know about BALPA, but IPMS (just changed their name to PRospect for some reason too complictaed to worry about), represent us at our unit. They have reduced rates for people in your situation, as I'm sure that other unions do.
The only problem with being in your shoes, (correct me if I'm wrong), is that to be effective the union has to be recognised by the employer. Although their is now a legal requirement for employers over a certain staff number to recognise a union, it only has to be the one that the majority of staff belong to. I know that IPMS/Prospect and the TGWU have their own specialist aviation departments.
It won't hurt for you to approach BALPA/TGWU or IPMS, they should tell you straight away if they can't help you.
I dont know about BALPA, but IPMS (just changed their name to PRospect for some reason too complictaed to worry about), represent us at our unit. They have reduced rates for people in your situation, as I'm sure that other unions do.
The only problem with being in your shoes, (correct me if I'm wrong), is that to be effective the union has to be recognised by the employer. Although their is now a legal requirement for employers over a certain staff number to recognise a union, it only has to be the one that the majority of staff belong to. I know that IPMS/Prospect and the TGWU have their own specialist aviation departments.
It won't hurt for you to approach BALPA/TGWU or IPMS, they should tell you straight away if they can't help you.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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BALPA have a student membership (I think), and also flying instructors, on the 1% rate (which on my last FI wages worked out at less than the unemployed rate of £20!!)
Whether they will be of use, apart from the employment conference, I don't know.
I found the IPA more use as an instructor.
Whether they will be of use, apart from the employment conference, I don't know.
I found the IPA more use as an instructor.
Join Date: May 2001
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I am surprised it took so long for someone to work out that some sort of collective action for people doing professional flight training was a good idea.
Properly set up, an association of independently sponsored pilots has some major advantages such as:
1)Negotiating with FTO’s on the same footing as Airlines, thus reducing considerably the cost to the individual sponsoring themselves on their own
2)Obtaining same contract prices as Airline sponsored students (including accommodation at better rates)
3)Paying out monthly invoices out of a legally protected ‘escrow’ account and probably in arrears (so if the FTO goes belly up then you are one of the debtors to the company, rather than a creditor).
4)Maintaining contact with employers directly and fulfilling their crewing requirements by placement
5)Obtaining favourable rates on type training
6)Exposing potential students to the selection process to see if they will have the aptitudes before they commit large sums of money
7)Coaching for airline interviews and again getting some pre-selection sim time at good rates
8)Providing their own liaison personnel to deal with individual problems and quality checking the services provided by the FTO.
9)Negotiating with finance house for favourable lending facilities
Set up as a non-profit organization the association could employ some grizzled old veteran, with the suitable professional flight training background, commercial awareness and airline industry knowledge to protect the association’s members. The individual could do the negotiating, supervision of training standards and to help in the placement and interview selection/coaching phase. Of course this will cost some money in management fees, but then the individual will save a great deal on the overall outlay it may seem insignificant by comparison.
Of course the industry knows that the ‘wannabee’s will never organize themselves properly that way so they will be able to continue to milk the cow indefinitely, or am I wrong? Let’s see some comments on this? Email me if you like as well.
Properly set up, an association of independently sponsored pilots has some major advantages such as:
1)Negotiating with FTO’s on the same footing as Airlines, thus reducing considerably the cost to the individual sponsoring themselves on their own
2)Obtaining same contract prices as Airline sponsored students (including accommodation at better rates)
3)Paying out monthly invoices out of a legally protected ‘escrow’ account and probably in arrears (so if the FTO goes belly up then you are one of the debtors to the company, rather than a creditor).
4)Maintaining contact with employers directly and fulfilling their crewing requirements by placement
5)Obtaining favourable rates on type training
6)Exposing potential students to the selection process to see if they will have the aptitudes before they commit large sums of money
7)Coaching for airline interviews and again getting some pre-selection sim time at good rates
8)Providing their own liaison personnel to deal with individual problems and quality checking the services provided by the FTO.
9)Negotiating with finance house for favourable lending facilities
Set up as a non-profit organization the association could employ some grizzled old veteran, with the suitable professional flight training background, commercial awareness and airline industry knowledge to protect the association’s members. The individual could do the negotiating, supervision of training standards and to help in the placement and interview selection/coaching phase. Of course this will cost some money in management fees, but then the individual will save a great deal on the overall outlay it may seem insignificant by comparison.
Of course the industry knows that the ‘wannabee’s will never organize themselves properly that way so they will be able to continue to milk the cow indefinitely, or am I wrong? Let’s see some comments on this? Email me if you like as well.
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BALPA do have a "student pilot" and unemployed pilot membership.
Have you looked at their website or got any info from them?
Try: http://www.balpa.org/join_m.html
Its all on there.
"Trainee Associate" membership I think is what you are looking for. This is for those people who have started commercial training. Membership is FREE.
For those who are qualified but unemployed the annual fee is £24.
Hope that helps.
Have you looked at their website or got any info from them?
Try: http://www.balpa.org/join_m.html
Its all on there.
"Trainee Associate" membership I think is what you are looking for. This is for those people who have started commercial training. Membership is FREE.
For those who are qualified but unemployed the annual fee is £24.
Hope that helps.
