Type ratings in the US - foreign citizen

[mattpilot]

It is my understanding that new regulations have been put into place were foreign citizens can no longer receive training for a type rating in the USA for a large aircraft or turbine/jet powered aircraft. That correct?

That effectively put a lid on my career.

That is, if its true. The only exception is, or so i understand, that you already own a type rating.

Question.

I think it costs an average of 20.000,- USD for a type rating here in the US. Right? How much do they cost in Europe? I was thinking of getting a type rating in a Fairchild Metro 23 or a bigger King Air type or so, one that is very cheap to operate (maybe you have some suggestions). Or maybe just do one in a simulator. Should be fairly cheap also. That is, as soon as i'm that far in my training. But i like to think ahead

Anyhow, lets say i have a US issued Certificate. Can i even take that certificate and go to Europe and train for a rating, or do i have to have local certificates issued by the local regulating body?

How does that work?



Thanks for any input!

[foghorn]

£10,000 - £22,000 (US$15,000 - US$35,000) depending on type and provider for a JAA type rating in the UK. The low end of that range for small turboprops, the upper end for B737 etc. This includes aircraft rental for the base training touch and gos.

You must have a JAR CPL/IR with ATPL theory passes and an MCC to get a JAR type rating. Conversion from FAA is not an insubstantial undertaking (both in cost and time)

Note in this context the term 'certificate' is rarely used outside the US - 'licence' or 'license' is used instead.

Have you thought about Canada or Oz?

hope this helps.
cheers!
foggy.

[Freak On A Leash]

Mattpilot,
Foreign pilots can still get typed in the US provided they pass the FBI`s screening process.Last I heard (and this is a few months back) the screening process took about 45 days.If I`m not mistaken (again this is slightly dated info) the applicant has to provide the training facility various information about him-/herself and the facility sends this info through to the Department of Justice and the FBI - then you get to wait.Things might be moving along at a quicker pace nowadays though.Also heard something about that the training has to be under an approved part 142 curriculm, meaning you can`t just put some cash on their front desk to buy a couple of hours in the sim... and we all know why

With regards to already typed pilots there is really no problem at all.This is a good thing with regards to recurrent training and such so they can keep the costs down (compared to Europe).

I still haven`t found any info about groundschool alone (typerating courses), so I guess there aren`t any restrictions on those since you`re just learning systems - not actually maneuvering the aircraft.

If you`re thinking about obtaining a license outside of the US I think foghorn is on the right track.Allthough the JAA license is accepted "everywhere" it is also a major hassle to get.The Oz licenses are a lot quicker to get - and cheaper.The same with regards to the Canadian ones.Just keep in mind that the FAA certificates aren`t accepted everywhere (though validations are possible) since they are not "Straight" ICAO licenses (too many differences)...and most of the other countries accept each others ICAO licenses (sometimes the only requirement for a conversion between 2 ICAO licenses is an written exam in Rules & Regulations).

Hope this helps you out!

[mattpilot]

Yes that helps out alot! Thanks!

@fog - sounds like i'd spend a whole fortune again just to obtain JAA licenses - i hope freak is right.

Canada? Hmm, basicly anything thats cheap would work. Oz? Whats that? Sounds like the prison series


@freak - I hope your right - having such a lid over my head would of killed me

I'm just curious though were you got your information? I would like to read up on it and/or keep myself updated on this subject.

**edit - nevermind - i found this thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=59076

thanks!

[redsnail]

Oz used to be a prison sentence for the original white inhabitants.
Other wise known as Australia.

[inverted flatspin]

Freak, ICAO came into being because of the Chicago convention and the last time I checked Chicago is in the US. FAA certificates are fully ICAO compliant in fact most countries around the world try to emulate the FAA system.

[foghorn]

FAA certificates are ICAO-compliant licences, however most countries tend to try to abide by ICAO rather than the US directly. There are significant differences between ICAO and the FAA licensing system in some areas.

The fact that Chicago is in the US is immaterial to the workings of ICAO and its conventions and annexes, as it's an international body, however the US's position as the premier country for aviation lends it a lot of clout.

The UK automatically recognises any ICAO-compliant licence (private or commercial) as a full private licence conferring the aircraft/rating priveleges of the original licence, with the exception that an ICAO Instrument Rating is recognised as a UK IMC rating, not a full IR (therefore higher approach minima and no class A IFR allowed).

Don't know about the licence recoginition position of the other European countries as foreign licence recognition is a matter for national legislation, not the pan-European JAA. Based upon history and attitude to regulation on the continent I would speculate that other European countries would be more restrictive than the UK regarding this.

However if you want the full Commercial privileges here, you have to go through the costly conversion process to JAA. This sticks in some people's throats as it is seen to be a barrier to free movement of labour. Oddly enough the vitriol regarding this is usually rained on the UK (rather than the JAA who make the rules, usually influenced by the habitually more restrictive JAA nations on the continent), probably because many of the people wanting to convert to JAA are Australians/South Africans/New Zealanders with British ancestry (therefore can easily get work permits).

Slightly off-topic ramble, but thought I'd put it here for information purposes, as there's often a lot of emotive rubbish spouted on pprune regarding licence conversion in Europe.

cheers!
foggy.

[MLS-12D]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

As Foghorn says, in most of the world one earns a pilot "license". I'm not sure why the USA prefers "certificate".

It's interesting to note that the 1919 Paris Convention (Article 12 and 13) and the 1944 Chicago Convention (Articles 32 and 33) speak of both "licenses" and "certificates of competency", so I guess neither term is more correct than the other.

I do deplore the US term "certificated", which is a ridiculous non-word. What's wrong with good old "certified"? It's kind of like the headset manufacturers' double-talk about noise "attenuation"; who speaks like that?

MLS-12D

P.S. On a related note, I wish the USA would refrain from refeering to all flight instructors as "CFIs", which should be reserved for CHIEF flying instructors only.

[erjdriver]

Yes, foreign pilots can be typed. Exactly as Freak said. My employer (a US regional airlines), sent me a "release of information" paper for the FBI (I'm still an Italian citizen).

An FAA is an ICAO license. Period. In order to work in other countries, such license must be either validated or converted. In some countries (ex. Emirates) it's an easy process, whereas in other (European countries) it' a BIG pain the the a$$.

The reason the FAA uses certificates instead of licenses is that certificates do NOT need to be reniewed.

PEACE

[GoneWest]

I was speaking earlier this week to "the powers that be" about the 45 day rule.

The response was that the "idea" of making the rule was still an idea - an answer should be forthcoming sometime within the next three months - the training schools are legally prohibited from offering initial type ratings to any non US citizen in the meantime.

Best case date to be accepted by a school for an initail type rating was "tomorrow", worst case was "late October".

[Pitts S2B]

New FAA procedure for foreign licences

Here it is all 30 pages.

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http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...020729fsdo.pdf



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[worzel]

Call me lazy, but if someone could just pick the highlights out and post them I'd be grateful.

worzel

[Left Wing Down]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...3&pagenumber=2


This is the latest info from the FAA website http://registry.faa.gov/airmen.asp
specifically: http://registry.faa.gov/airmen.asp#Verify

"Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification

Effective July 23, 2002, persons applying for a certificate issued on the basis of a foreign license under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.75, using a pilot certificate issued under 61.75 to apply for a commercial pilot certificate under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 61, Section 61.123 (h) or applying for an airline transport pilot certificate issued under the provisions of 14 CFR, Part 61. Section 61.153 (d) (3) must have the validity and currency of the foreign license and medical certificate or endorsement verified by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) that issued those certificates, before making application for an FAA certificate.

You may complete the Verification of Authenticity of Foreign License, Rating, and Medical Certification form (http://registry.faa.gov/docs/verify61-75.pdf) and FAX or mail it to the Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760. When verification is received from the CAA, you will receive written notification that a copy has been forwarded to the Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) you designated in your request. A listing of FSDO (http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsdo/index.cfm) locations and telephone numbers is available from our customer services menu.

The verification is valid for 60 days. You may make application for a 61.75 certificate issued on the basis of your foreign license or an airline transport pilot certificate at the designated FSDO during that 60 day period. If you prefer to write a letter, it must contain all of the information shown on the form.

Mailing Address: FAA
Airmen Certification Branch, AFS-760
PO Box 25082
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0082
FAX number: [phone]"

Seems like it's up to your home country CAA now...

[bumpfich]

Ban on FAA issuing Pilot Certificates for foreign pilots lifted.

From AOPA ePilot Vol 4 Issue 31.

BACKGROUND CHECKS NOW REQUIRED FOR SOME FOREIGN PILOTS
The FAA has issued a new procedure that requires all foreign pilots to submit to background checks before the agency will issue a U.S. private pilot certificate based on a pilot license issued by another country. The new regulations lift an emergency suspension imposed just over a week ago because
of national security concerns, which barred the FAA from issuing pilot certificates to foreign pilots. See
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsite...02-3-053x.html

[no sponsor]

Where can I find confirmation that it has been lifted? The link given referes only to the ban.

[ETOPS773]

http://registry.faa.gov/docs/verify61-75.pdf is what you need

[no sponsor]

It looks like I was mistaken. The ban related to any certificates being issued. The new systems to obtain an FAA licence based on your ICAO licence, requires you need to fill out a series of forms, send them to Oklahoma, wait 60 days while verification takes place, and then you'll get a licence sent to you in the post.

This relies on all CAAs arround the globe cooperating with the FAA, and I hear that this could be a problem. I don't know where that leaves everyone. Presumably, it will be almost impossible to achieve?

[weasil]

Foreign Pilot Verification Form is Here

Click here for the FAA Foreign Pilot Verification Form


You also need to contact the UK Aviation Authority if you are from the UK to complete this process.

[Sheep Guts]

Ok is this form for people who have allready been issued an FAA Certificate from a foreighn licence in the past?
Or is it just for newbies about to do Training in the US.

I am asking if I would need to fill this in prior to getting a Type over 12,500lbs?


Regards
sheeep

[SunNFun]

Ok is this form for people who have allready been issued an FAA Certificate from a foreighn licence in the past?
Or is it just for newbies about to do Training in the US.

You need this for the first time to get a FAA restricted License plus every time you add a rating to your restricted FAA PPL, i.e. IFR, ME etc.

I am asking if I would need to fill this in prior to getting a Type over 12,500lbs?

That's a whole different animal, check https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/

hth,
sun'n fun