How I did it! How you can do it!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
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From: go west
fair play if that's how it happened. It's difficult to assess from the way story is laid out whether scaffolding came in after the PPL or before that. All that triggered me is that kids these days don't appreciate where stuff at their homes is coming from, thus if your mom and dad paid 10k to get you through your PPL some credit is due and you can hardly call yourself less privileged (than Arab kids with their lambos I suppose?)
If he got his PPL by working for it himself at the age of 17 I've nothing but utmost respect towards him
If he got his PPL by working for it himself at the age of 17 I've nothing but utmost respect towards him
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
From: UK
Martin,
PPL and Frozen ATPL was funding by myself and i do not appreciate being insinuated as a
My family provided a roof over my head while I was completing the training. This thread was supposed to be aimed at wannabes that think their dream is not achievable due to personal circumstance. so if you have nothing constructive to say Bore off!
Guys Thank you for your PM's I've just got back from a layover and i'll reply within the next few hours
Cheers.
PPL and Frozen ATPL was funding by myself and i do not appreciate being insinuated as a
My family provided a roof over my head while I was completing the training. This thread was supposed to be aimed at wannabes that think their dream is not achievable due to personal circumstance. so if you have nothing constructive to say Bore off! Guys Thank you for your PM's I've just got back from a layover and i'll reply within the next few hours
Cheers.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
From: Somerset
Scaffolder to long haul wide body pilot, serious kudos and congratulations to you.
Perhaps we need to look at scaaffolders in a different way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJa7VzfWJQg
Perhaps we need to look at scaaffolders in a different way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJa7VzfWJQg
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
From: Somerset
Nice to see that you kept the sense of humour though I hope that you and the skipper treat the stewardesses better than Harry and Paul treat the women walking past their building site.
To be fair, looking at the weather at the moment I would not want to be a scaffolder for any money.
To be fair, looking at the weather at the moment I would not want to be a scaffolder for any money.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 148
Likes: 8
From: Somewhere
Only strongest man it could survives in this crazy field, with excellent skills, clearly. Thank you A320baby to share your story, 'cause is really important to motivate everybody us, little wannabes XD.
Last edited by inabw; 25th November 2016 at 13:10.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: go west
Martin,
PPL and Frozen ATPL was funding by myself and i do not appreciate being insinuated as a My family provided a roof over my head while I was completing the training. This thread was supposed to be aimed at wannabes that think their dream is not achievable due to personal circumstance. so if you have nothing constructive to say Bore off!
Guys Thank you for your PM's I've just got back from a layover and i'll reply within the next few hours
Cheers.
PPL and Frozen ATPL was funding by myself and i do not appreciate being insinuated as a
My family provided a roof over my head while I was completing the training. This thread was supposed to be aimed at wannabes that think their dream is not achievable due to personal circumstance. so if you have nothing constructive to say Bore off! Guys Thank you for your PM's I've just got back from a layover and i'll reply within the next few hours
Cheers.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 13
From: From the Hills
A320 Baby, I don't want to take any credit from you, but achieving what you did while single and free from commitments and also been able to live at home while training actually makes it relatively "easy".
I have to frequently turn down interviews because the starting salary, the location simply is not workable with wife, kids and a mortgage with out getting divorced or going bankrupt, If I was single I would still be flying for a living. But congrats on the job.
I have to frequently turn down interviews because the starting salary, the location simply is not workable with wife, kids and a mortgage with out getting divorced or going bankrupt, If I was single I would still be flying for a living. But congrats on the job.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 28th November 2016 at 17:23.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
From: Somerset
Very good point portsharbourflyer, I had to turn down an interview earlier this year as it was fairly short notice, my wife was working that day, could not get a shift change and we could not get reliable child care for our son at short notice. I asked for an alternative date but they just ditched me and gave the interview slot to someone else.
Though on the day of the interview I was unwell with a bad case of D&V so there was no way that I could complete the interview unless they were happy to hold it in a toilet!!!!!!!!
Though on the day of the interview I was unwell with a bad case of D&V so there was no way that I could complete the interview unless they were happy to hold it in a toilet!!!!!!!!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: UK
Portsharbourflyer,
There's also another way of looking at it.
Some of us have refrained from having their own place, girlfriend, wife, kids, dog, hamster etc... so they can follow this path.
All the while, putting our lives on hold for that elusive hint of a job.
Does that not require a greater sacrifice or self discipline?
Personally, I don't take on things I can't afford.
Emotionally or financially.
A320, I'm pretty sure I know who you are.
If you are, who I think you are, we have a few mutual friends.
There's also another way of looking at it.
Some of us have refrained from having their own place, girlfriend, wife, kids, dog, hamster etc... so they can follow this path.
All the while, putting our lives on hold for that elusive hint of a job.
Does that not require a greater sacrifice or self discipline?
Personally, I don't take on things I can't afford.
Emotionally or financially.
A320, I'm pretty sure I know who you are.
If you are, who I think you are, we have a few mutual friends.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 13
From: From the Hills
Poose,
Sometimes some-things in life are not planned; my first child was not planned. Had I stayed in my first turboprop job I can guarantee I would have been divorced by now; I did full time instructing before the commitments arrived in life. In-fact that was my error, trying to do the instructor-turbo prop route because the low pay associated with that route is what made it unsustainable. Had I funded a jet type rating just after training then the chances are
by the time commitments arrived in life I would have been making a decent income so could have stayed flying. I have remained part time instructing and still normally get a couple of interviews each year but most rarely offer something that is sustainable.
I have travelled to Asia for interviews, I could go on, so don't think I haven't sacrificed things in life. I would have been on the property ladder ten years earlier had I not done the fATPL, so please don't insinuate that I haven't made sacrifices.
Also I wasn't prepared to see my wife and daughter live the early years in some dingy town centre flat (which the rent alone was over 50% of my FO take home pay) where a lot of the other flats were occupied by DHSS types while I was stuck down route.
A320baby, please could you explain how you juggled a child with all this, you mentioned you lived at home while doing the training? And you were in Poland for four years?
Did your partner and the son live with you in Poland? Again not all of us have partners that are understanding and are prepared to follow where the flying work is.
So the overall message here is funding a jet rating would have been the better route than FI-turboprop. In summary all your post reads as is, I lived at home to save money and got a job by funding an A320 rating; there is a lot of credibility what you have achieved but it is also far from the most onerous route that many have taken into aviation.
Sometimes some-things in life are not planned; my first child was not planned. Had I stayed in my first turboprop job I can guarantee I would have been divorced by now; I did full time instructing before the commitments arrived in life. In-fact that was my error, trying to do the instructor-turbo prop route because the low pay associated with that route is what made it unsustainable. Had I funded a jet type rating just after training then the chances are
by the time commitments arrived in life I would have been making a decent income so could have stayed flying. I have remained part time instructing and still normally get a couple of interviews each year but most rarely offer something that is sustainable.
I have travelled to Asia for interviews, I could go on, so don't think I haven't sacrificed things in life. I would have been on the property ladder ten years earlier had I not done the fATPL, so please don't insinuate that I haven't made sacrifices.
Also I wasn't prepared to see my wife and daughter live the early years in some dingy town centre flat (which the rent alone was over 50% of my FO take home pay) where a lot of the other flats were occupied by DHSS types while I was stuck down route.
A320baby, please could you explain how you juggled a child with all this, you mentioned you lived at home while doing the training? And you were in Poland for four years?
Did your partner and the son live with you in Poland? Again not all of us have partners that are understanding and are prepared to follow where the flying work is.
So the overall message here is funding a jet rating would have been the better route than FI-turboprop. In summary all your post reads as is, I lived at home to save money and got a job by funding an A320 rating; there is a lot of credibility what you have achieved but it is also far from the most onerous route that many have taken into aviation.
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 29th November 2016 at 23:27.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: UK
Portsharbour,
Some of us still aren't on the property ladder and have ended up with absolutely nothing, well into our mid thirties - all because of flying.
With all due respect and it's not an attack on you, but I just tire of how patronising people with children can be at times. I don't believe in 'unplanned' children either...
I've seen that card played by the opposite sex too many times.
I'm sure you've put a lot into this, I don't doubt that. Never questioned it.
But don't think that the single lads have it easy. Some of us have given up everything and are gutted at some of the relationships that have not been pursued or fell by the wayside in order to finally get that flying job. Only now, starting life at a snails pace on meagre turboprop wages while your friends are all a decade ahead of you in life.
That gets you down at times.
Not attacking you, just telling an other side of the tale.
It's very hard being a parent while doing this, I hear that. But it can be just as hard on other people, albeit in different ways.
Some of us still aren't on the property ladder and have ended up with absolutely nothing, well into our mid thirties - all because of flying.
With all due respect and it's not an attack on you, but I just tire of how patronising people with children can be at times. I don't believe in 'unplanned' children either...
I've seen that card played by the opposite sex too many times.
I'm sure you've put a lot into this, I don't doubt that. Never questioned it.
But don't think that the single lads have it easy. Some of us have given up everything and are gutted at some of the relationships that have not been pursued or fell by the wayside in order to finally get that flying job. Only now, starting life at a snails pace on meagre turboprop wages while your friends are all a decade ahead of you in life.
That gets you down at times.
Not attacking you, just telling an other side of the tale.
It's very hard being a parent while doing this, I hear that. But it can be just as hard on other people, albeit in different ways.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 13
From: From the Hills
Poose, I have no wish to start any arguments and normally I prefer to keep my posts more constructive and less personal; but it still stands when you get invited to an interview in South Africa or some far away place it is more readily achievable if you are single.
While the job done (scaffolder) to raise the money was a physically demanding difficult job which deserves a lot of credit in itself; when a post is entitled this is "how I did it this is how you can do it", I was expecting to read some story about a hangar rat working his way up through working at flying clubs, doing air taxi, night freight in 1950s turboprops then to an airliner. But when the overall jist of the story is someone living at home with the parents, saved money and paid for a type rating it is a touch watered down in my opinion.
But I suppose it has shown a route than can work if you are under 24 and can stick living with the parents.
While the job done (scaffolder) to raise the money was a physically demanding difficult job which deserves a lot of credit in itself; when a post is entitled this is "how I did it this is how you can do it", I was expecting to read some story about a hangar rat working his way up through working at flying clubs, doing air taxi, night freight in 1950s turboprops then to an airliner. But when the overall jist of the story is someone living at home with the parents, saved money and paid for a type rating it is a touch watered down in my opinion.
But I suppose it has shown a route than can work if you are under 24 and can stick living with the parents.
Educated Hillbilly
Joined: Dec 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 13
From: From the Hills
Push button, every single A320 pilot is using some of my work every single day, so please do refrain from making puerile comments when you know nothing about my background.
Further you are based in the US from your profile; the 1500 rule in place means 200 hour pilots are not allowed to undertake part 25 type ratings, so in the US the route taken by the original poster would not have been possible under current rules. So I don't feel a US based poster has much right to comment on something in EASA land.
Pushbutton; the point I am trying to make is a lot of people do not have the luxury to live at home while undertaking modular pilot training; over a 18 month period the additional cost of living along side training in the UK would easily amount to 10000 pounds plus; not to mention not living at home previous to this would also limit the ability to save. The title of the post was this "How you can do it", while a good percentage of those reading are in the 16 to 22 age bracket and there are also a number of late twenties / early thirties even forties career changers who read this and the described route by the original poster would hold little relevance.
If you are at the pinnacle of this profession one would have thought you could have presented a more rational coherent argument rather than simple insults.
Further you are based in the US from your profile; the 1500 rule in place means 200 hour pilots are not allowed to undertake part 25 type ratings, so in the US the route taken by the original poster would not have been possible under current rules. So I don't feel a US based poster has much right to comment on something in EASA land.
Pushbutton; the point I am trying to make is a lot of people do not have the luxury to live at home while undertaking modular pilot training; over a 18 month period the additional cost of living along side training in the UK would easily amount to 10000 pounds plus; not to mention not living at home previous to this would also limit the ability to save. The title of the post was this "How you can do it", while a good percentage of those reading are in the 16 to 22 age bracket and there are also a number of late twenties / early thirties even forties career changers who read this and the described route by the original poster would hold little relevance.
If you are at the pinnacle of this profession one would have thought you could have presented a more rational coherent argument rather than simple insults.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
A320babies progress from Wizz to Virgin via Air Tankers is not remarkable. That's what I call 'normal progress'. What I think is remarkable is that, at the time' you could go from (f) ATPL to A320 F/O. Just the fact that you can do a (f) ATPL at 18 with 250 hours is in itself remarkable, but to actually find a job on a B737/A320 type plane is something that is absolutely not going to happen in America under any circumstances.
Which brings me to why I'm even on this web site.
It all began with a conversation with a Virgin Captain at JFK. I told him I was a Brit working for a US carrier and was a CFI/II/ME and an A&P mechanic and had a Cessna 172M, and were teaching my three kids to fly. He told me his son had gone to Oxford and had a job on a B757 with 275 hours. I was just floored at the thought of a kid in the right seat, but if the opportunity arose for my kids them we would certainly take it.
So I started looking into getting a EASA (f) ATPL straight after getting the FAA Comm/Inst/Multi. They all will have many job opportunities in the US but will be restricted to Pt135 Air Taxi and Pt 91 Corporate until age 21. And even then the chances of getting with B737/A320 operators are slim at best.
I equate Ryanair to Allegient in the US, and Jet 2 to Spirit, and Easyjet to Southwest. It would be unheard of to attain that level until age 23-25 at the earliest.
I have no idea if it'll work as planned, but for the 15,000 Pounds and nine months (gu-estimated) we will certainly try. I see a lot of kids getting hired straight out of school with FlyBE. But jobs like that are just for the asking in the US assuming your 21 and have 1500 hours.
If it doesn't work out, that's alright too, for the University system in the UK is just as advantageous. Where as you can get a degree in nine months with a (f) ATPL, and a masters degree in the same time. And them we will have the EASA ATPL in our back pocket to add BA/VG to our list of final carriers.
I'm very positive and upbeat about the whole industry, even when things look bad. For there is always hope. What I don't like is when people wine and moan and complain. Waah, waah, waah, waah. Let me call you a wambulance.
Which brings me to why I'm even on this web site.
It all began with a conversation with a Virgin Captain at JFK. I told him I was a Brit working for a US carrier and was a CFI/II/ME and an A&P mechanic and had a Cessna 172M, and were teaching my three kids to fly. He told me his son had gone to Oxford and had a job on a B757 with 275 hours. I was just floored at the thought of a kid in the right seat, but if the opportunity arose for my kids them we would certainly take it.
So I started looking into getting a EASA (f) ATPL straight after getting the FAA Comm/Inst/Multi. They all will have many job opportunities in the US but will be restricted to Pt135 Air Taxi and Pt 91 Corporate until age 21. And even then the chances of getting with B737/A320 operators are slim at best.
I equate Ryanair to Allegient in the US, and Jet 2 to Spirit, and Easyjet to Southwest. It would be unheard of to attain that level until age 23-25 at the earliest.
I have no idea if it'll work as planned, but for the 15,000 Pounds and nine months (gu-estimated) we will certainly try. I see a lot of kids getting hired straight out of school with FlyBE. But jobs like that are just for the asking in the US assuming your 21 and have 1500 hours.
If it doesn't work out, that's alright too, for the University system in the UK is just as advantageous. Where as you can get a degree in nine months with a (f) ATPL, and a masters degree in the same time. And them we will have the EASA ATPL in our back pocket to add BA/VG to our list of final carriers.
I'm very positive and upbeat about the whole industry, even when things look bad. For there is always hope. What I don't like is when people wine and moan and complain. Waah, waah, waah, waah. Let me call you a wambulance.
Last edited by button push ignored; 1st December 2016 at 15:24.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
Some of your posts remind me of my brothers comments to me. It's alright for you, you knew what you wanted to do with your life. It was alright for you, our parents let you stay rent free at their house. It's alright for you, you got a redundancy cheque.
Well let me tell you Mr school for the gifted 11 0-levels, 4 A-levels, all grade A, head filled with left wing propaganda, free university. Life's tough, figure it out and throw everything you have at it, and maybe it'll work out.
You would have made a brilliant prosecuting attorney, but you chose not to pursue it
I will not allow complaining in the cockpit. I don't want to hear how you were rescheduled into days off, or junior assigned a trip, or not pay protected because of your screw up.
We have the finest job in the world, and work for one of the finest companies in the world.
Count your blessing and be thankful for every day were able to do this for a living, because it's been a fantastic ride.
Sorry to A320 for crashing your party. I'm very glad you made it, and congratulate you on your success. I just can't abide habitual complainers.
Well let me tell you Mr school for the gifted 11 0-levels, 4 A-levels, all grade A, head filled with left wing propaganda, free university. Life's tough, figure it out and throw everything you have at it, and maybe it'll work out.
You would have made a brilliant prosecuting attorney, but you chose not to pursue it
I will not allow complaining in the cockpit. I don't want to hear how you were rescheduled into days off, or junior assigned a trip, or not pay protected because of your screw up.
We have the finest job in the world, and work for one of the finest companies in the world.
Count your blessing and be thankful for every day were able to do this for a living, because it's been a fantastic ride.
Sorry to A320 for crashing your party. I'm very glad you made it, and congratulate you on your success. I just can't abide habitual complainers.