how are things out there seriously??
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how are things out there seriously??
Good evening ladies and gentleman. I'm kinda setting out on my final furlong at the moment to get some more money together in order to begin training hopefully in the next 18 months to get an FATPL. I have just done some reading on this forum and seen that once you have an FATPL it is valid for 5 years ... this leads me onto my question - if I try and try and try and try and try, should I near as damn it be able to get a job within 5 years upon completion? Its difficult to draw an accurate conclusion on the matter as you hear horror stories of qualified pilots who simply never got a job and then their licences lapsed and ruined their lives, then on the flip side the schools will tell you you should be able to get a job within 6 months to a year.
I fully believe it is true there are some qualified pilots out there who never got jobs but seriously - have you seen it happen often?
So far my belief is that for people such as myself who don't have degrees or a rock solid background in aviation, you could struggle away for a couple of years but then something should come along?? I've seen this happen with a couple of people I know.
Thank you to all who reply in advance.
I fully believe it is true there are some qualified pilots out there who never got jobs but seriously - have you seen it happen often?
So far my belief is that for people such as myself who don't have degrees or a rock solid background in aviation, you could struggle away for a couple of years but then something should come along?? I've seen this happen with a couple of people I know.
Thank you to all who reply in advance.
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This is an area where you have to think years ahead. I've always looked at it this way - if your destiny is to be a pilot (or whatever), then "the management" will ensure that it happens. However, it won't happen if you don't have a licence! 
You've got enough pain now without worrying about more in the future. Focus on what's in front of you day to day.
How do you know if you are on the right path? Look for strange coincidences.
Good luck!
Phil
You've got enough pain now without worrying about more in the future. Focus on what's in front of you day to day.
How do you know if you are on the right path? Look for strange coincidences.
Good luck!
Phil
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yeah thats true! its been blood sweat and tears for the last 7 years since I realised that that is truly where my heart lies in the airlines and if anything I am probably more motivated now than I was in the middle of the stage ... I just hope that within those 5 years I can get some form of airline related work. sadly it looks like one of those pay to fly schemes is going to be one of the only feasible ways of exercising my stripes!! as history has shown though, its an incredibly dynamic industry and I think it could possibly get a little better 10 years down the line as from what I understand, air force guys are going to get increasingly thinner on the ground as drones are getting phased in for warfare and with the high prices of training combined with ruthless tactics of the employing airlines, there could be a huge void left ... always worth getting straight answers on how hard it is going to be!!
thanks Phil
thanks Phil
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yes I suppose that is an accurate summation of the situation!! I simply cannot stop on the quest being as its been 7 years now of blood sweat and tears and still every day I wake up and I am as motivated if not more so than I was when I set out on the venture!! its just rather concerning that the licence only has validity for 5 years so its always worth an ask but I simply have to take the step even if I lost everything in the process at least I won't go to the grave as a 'could have been'.
thanks Phil! you've inspired me!!!
if anyone else has any input I would gladly invite it!
thanks Phil! you've inspired me!!!
if anyone else has any input I would gladly invite it!
de minimus non curat lex
If you have the motivation and the passion, you are more than half way to achieving your goal.
As for achieving your licence, besides an ability to fly, there are 14 written exams to pass. The minimum standard I would suggest are 5 GCSE/O levels including Maths,Physics, and English. 'A' levels preferably in science would be a distinct advantage, although not essential. Demonstration of grey matter.
The most complex is gets is basic trigonometry (sin:cos:tan) and quadratic equations. In physics, Boyle and Charles law for the meteorology.
You need to enjoy numbers......and simple sums.
As for employment, you need to do well during training and stand out from the crowd. Mere licence issue is no guarantee at all. Some very below average persons succeed in CPL/IR issue. Licence issue is possible provided a MINIMUM STANDARD is reached. All the boxes are ticked.
Pass all exams with a minimum of 90% per subject, pass all the flying first time, and complete a MCC/JOC course operating a Boeing with an appropriate training provider. This is the most important part of the course, as it indicates your learning curve potential for the type rating.
Best option ~ sponsorship with well known airlines.
As for achieving your licence, besides an ability to fly, there are 14 written exams to pass. The minimum standard I would suggest are 5 GCSE/O levels including Maths,Physics, and English. 'A' levels preferably in science would be a distinct advantage, although not essential. Demonstration of grey matter.
The most complex is gets is basic trigonometry (sin:cos:tan) and quadratic equations. In physics, Boyle and Charles law for the meteorology.
You need to enjoy numbers......and simple sums.
As for employment, you need to do well during training and stand out from the crowd. Mere licence issue is no guarantee at all. Some very below average persons succeed in CPL/IR issue. Licence issue is possible provided a MINIMUM STANDARD is reached. All the boxes are ticked.
Pass all exams with a minimum of 90% per subject, pass all the flying first time, and complete a MCC/JOC course operating a Boeing with an appropriate training provider. This is the most important part of the course, as it indicates your learning curve potential for the type rating.
Best option ~ sponsorship with well known airlines.
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Parkfell - is it really sunny in Troon? I live there as well!
Anyhow, to put things in perspective a little bit, many moons (and many buffalo) ago there was a real pilot shortage around the time that Air Europe went down and supplied a lot of pilots to an industry that sorely needed them. It was so bad that Madrid Centre was half empty of air traffic controllers, and pilots off the North Sea were being hooked out of helicopters and dumped in the front of 737s, as instrument flying is instrument flying after all. All the course providers were fully booked for four years ahead, and if you had a letter saying you were on a course, you virtually had a job. I myself was offered a co-jo position in a 757 provided I could start the course the next day, but I had just signed up as Chief Pilot of Cabair - in retrospect, I guess I should have taken it!
Anyhow, for reasons best known to himself, the boss of Air Europe pulled the plug on the company which gave a brief respite. The point is, recession after recession has followed and, apart from a recent blip, that shortage has never really gone away, as as the recessions have ensured that people didn't necessarily have the money to train.
Now add in the fact that India is close to overtaking China in the population stakes, and China itself is buying aircraft, and all the manufacturers are predicting requirements for pilots, including on helicopters. I think the future for potential pilots now, by the time they have their licences, looks rather good, although there will no doubt be people who disagree!
As for studying - in your career, you will be rather like an actor treading the boards, learning new lines every time you change aircraft type. Get used to it!
Phil
PS - mental arithmetic is sorely lacking in new recruits.
I live there as well!Anyhow, to put things in perspective a little bit, many moons (and many buffalo) ago there was a real pilot shortage around the time that Air Europe went down and supplied a lot of pilots to an industry that sorely needed them. It was so bad that Madrid Centre was half empty of air traffic controllers, and pilots off the North Sea were being hooked out of helicopters and dumped in the front of 737s, as instrument flying is instrument flying after all. All the course providers were fully booked for four years ahead, and if you had a letter saying you were on a course, you virtually had a job. I myself was offered a co-jo position in a 757 provided I could start the course the next day, but I had just signed up as Chief Pilot of Cabair - in retrospect, I guess I should have taken it!
Anyhow, for reasons best known to himself, the boss of Air Europe pulled the plug on the company which gave a brief respite. The point is, recession after recession has followed and, apart from a recent blip, that shortage has never really gone away, as as the recessions have ensured that people didn't necessarily have the money to train.
Now add in the fact that India is close to overtaking China in the population stakes, and China itself is buying aircraft, and all the manufacturers are predicting requirements for pilots, including on helicopters. I think the future for potential pilots now, by the time they have their licences, looks rather good, although there will no doubt be people who disagree!
As for studying - in your career, you will be rather like an actor treading the boards, learning new lines every time you change aircraft type. Get used to it!
Phil
PS - mental arithmetic is sorely lacking in new recruits.
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Yes well I went to sit an access to HE course (A-level equivalent) in engineering at college to give myself a rock solid background in Maths and Physics and succeeded with distinctions across the board ... plus I got a whole new wind to my sails and I actually loved the studying and the maths ... so much so I used to prefer studying to sleeping!!
I know once I get to the school I will go off the radar for the duration of the course and resign myself to studying fervently for the whole course as its gonna be self sponsored with virtually no help from anyone so this one will count!!!
have either of you heard of many instances though of pilots that have qualified and their licences have lapsed or is that just the worst of the worst case scenario? i.e. <3%??
I know once I get to the school I will go off the radar for the duration of the course and resign myself to studying fervently for the whole course as its gonna be self sponsored with virtually no help from anyone so this one will count!!!
have either of you heard of many instances though of pilots that have qualified and their licences have lapsed or is that just the worst of the worst case scenario? i.e. <3%??
de minimus non curat lex
You ask about those who fail to gain employment.
Yes that does happen, but most likely to those who struggled throughout the course.
A simulator assessment invariably is part of the selection process, and those who do well on the course will find employment.
And yes, mental arithmetic is important, especially your three times table.
Paco ~ beautiful Thursday & Friday. Cloudy last two days.
Long dog walks with Bella on Barassie Beach.
Yes that does happen, but most likely to those who struggled throughout the course.
A simulator assessment invariably is part of the selection process, and those who do well on the course will find employment.
And yes, mental arithmetic is important, especially your three times table.
Paco ~ beautiful Thursday & Friday. Cloudy last two days.
Long dog walks with Bella on Barassie Beach.
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The mental arithmetic is so important that there are proposals for a maths exam in which no calculators are allowed. This was the result of a training needs analysis in which airlines expressed what they would like pilot basic training to provide. Believe it or not, they also would like pilots to know more about jet engines. There appears to be rather a lack of knowledge.
Parkfell - if you see a black Mustang at the Barassie fish and chip shop, that's me Although not for a couple of weeks yet - got a stint in EASA coming up. Oops, shouldn't hijack the thread!
Phil
Parkfell - if you see a black Mustang at the Barassie fish and chip shop, that's me
Although not for a couple of weeks yet - got a stint in EASA coming up. Oops, shouldn't hijack the thread!Phil
de minimus non curat lex
SQA NATIONAL 5 exam
You may be interested to know that the Scottish maths exam set by SQA have a paper where no calculators are allowed. The other paper allows calculators.
This equates to GCSE/O level.
This issue would to a large extent be mitigated by weans being taught their TIMES TABLES and preferably up to X 12.
Old fashioned I know, but very useful.
This equates to GCSE/O level.
This issue would to a large extent be mitigated by weans being taught their TIMES TABLES and preferably up to X 12.
Old fashioned I know, but very useful.
Last edited by parkfell; 21st Sep 2015 at 08:24. Reason: Syntax
