I DON'T want to be an airline pilot!
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I DON'T want to be an airline pilot!
So I really want to become a professional pilot, get my ATPL etc. But I don't think I want to join the airlines. At least, my instinct tells me I don't want to be trundling big jets around the place. Though I'm sure that's great for some, I'm much more interested and excited by the idea of flying smaller aircraft into a much greater variety of airfields (Bush piloting, safari flying, that kind of thing springs to mind).
Now my questions are:
- Am I making things excessively difficult for myself?
- Do you have any tips if you've had that sort of career?
Thanks for any PPRuNe wisdom passed on.
Now my questions are:
- Am I making things excessively difficult for myself?
- Do you have any tips if you've had that sort of career?
Thanks for any PPRuNe wisdom passed on.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I have done something like that in Australia.
You'll have a tonne of fun but you'll go broke in the process long term. Sad but true.
In Australia etc, you can start a career doing that and then moving on up into the airlines, after all, that's where the money is. But in Europe? hmm.
You'll have a tonne of fun but you'll go broke in the process long term. Sad but true.
In Australia etc, you can start a career doing that and then moving on up into the airlines, after all, that's where the money is. But in Europe? hmm.
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It's difficult but certainly not impossible
If your profile is correct and you are 19 years old, from the UK, then you have two immediate concerns.
First is that there's obviously no "bush piloting or safari flying" to be found in the UK. So if it's your chosen career, then you are committing yourself to spending your entire working life away from your home country and family. Do you have a particular country in mind, have you travelled extensively or lived in these kind of countries before, had dealings with the locals, do you really know what you're getting into in terms of day to day life in these places, or do you just have a romantic idea in your head of what it's like being a bush pilot from watching discovery channel? Do you have any plans to have a family of your own one day? Will your wife have any kind of minimum expectation of quality of life or housing or whatever? (Assuming you're a guy ... no offense redsnail
) What about kids, would they be able to live in your "bush pilot" accommodation?
I don't mean to burst your bubble but there is a reason why virtually NOBODY makes a career out of "bush flying", because it is virtually without exception a young single person's game, and 99% of people treat it as a stepping stone to a more settled job in a more civilized country. The places where you have to live and the typical salary associated with it, makes it almost impossible to consider it as anything else. There are a few exceptions to the rule - i.e. the Australian flying doctor service - but many of those jobs are not likely to be accessible to you as a Brit.
In any case, you will need to go live somewhere where there IS that kind of flying. Africa, Australia, Indonesia/PNG, Canada/Alaska. You will of course need a work visa and a licence for that particular country. It's possible to arrange in some African countries and the likes of Susi Air can arrange it in Indo, but next to impossible in Australia or South Africa or Alaska. So do your work permit research first.
Secondly, if you're 19, don't take this the wrong way but you are probably several years too young to be taken seriously by many bush / GA type operators. They don't really like spotty teenagers in command of their very expensive single crew aircraft, and would rather someone with maturity and at least a few years of life experience.
That is probably a good thing though, in that it will give you the time to go work in whatever professional capacity you can for the next 3 or 4 years and save the money you'll need, without taking on a massive pilot training loan. Then if your heart's still set on it, at least you can save money on the very expensive airline oriented UK training. Flying schools in South Africa are much cheaper and I'm sure you can find one that's bush pilot / GA oriented.
After that, you'll either need to have a connection, or you'll need to go travel around to places like Maun and potentially spend some serious time sweeping hangar floors and buying beers for chief pilots until an opportunity comes up. Bush operators don't typically even respond to CVs posted from the UK, they would rather hire someone they know who's already in town.
Best of luck
If your profile is correct and you are 19 years old, from the UK, then you have two immediate concerns.
First is that there's obviously no "bush piloting or safari flying" to be found in the UK. So if it's your chosen career, then you are committing yourself to spending your entire working life away from your home country and family. Do you have a particular country in mind, have you travelled extensively or lived in these kind of countries before, had dealings with the locals, do you really know what you're getting into in terms of day to day life in these places, or do you just have a romantic idea in your head of what it's like being a bush pilot from watching discovery channel? Do you have any plans to have a family of your own one day? Will your wife have any kind of minimum expectation of quality of life or housing or whatever? (Assuming you're a guy ... no offense redsnail
) What about kids, would they be able to live in your "bush pilot" accommodation?I don't mean to burst your bubble but there is a reason why virtually NOBODY makes a career out of "bush flying", because it is virtually without exception a young single person's game, and 99% of people treat it as a stepping stone to a more settled job in a more civilized country. The places where you have to live and the typical salary associated with it, makes it almost impossible to consider it as anything else. There are a few exceptions to the rule - i.e. the Australian flying doctor service - but many of those jobs are not likely to be accessible to you as a Brit.
In any case, you will need to go live somewhere where there IS that kind of flying. Africa, Australia, Indonesia/PNG, Canada/Alaska. You will of course need a work visa and a licence for that particular country. It's possible to arrange in some African countries and the likes of Susi Air can arrange it in Indo, but next to impossible in Australia or South Africa or Alaska. So do your work permit research first.
Secondly, if you're 19, don't take this the wrong way but you are probably several years too young to be taken seriously by many bush / GA type operators. They don't really like spotty teenagers in command of their very expensive single crew aircraft, and would rather someone with maturity and at least a few years of life experience.
That is probably a good thing though, in that it will give you the time to go work in whatever professional capacity you can for the next 3 or 4 years and save the money you'll need, without taking on a massive pilot training loan. Then if your heart's still set on it, at least you can save money on the very expensive airline oriented UK training. Flying schools in South Africa are much cheaper and I'm sure you can find one that's bush pilot / GA oriented.
After that, you'll either need to have a connection, or you'll need to go travel around to places like Maun and potentially spend some serious time sweeping hangar floors and buying beers for chief pilots until an opportunity comes up. Bush operators don't typically even respond to CVs posted from the UK, they would rather hire someone they know who's already in town.
Best of luck
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Good point council van, some of the most fun I've ever had in a plane was with Highland Airways doing low level VFR around the Scottish islands in a Jetstream.
Also, are you hell bent on fixed wing or would you consider helicopter flying, there's plenty of good jobs these days in the rotary sector flying offshore, EMS, police helicopters etc. And crazy money on offer if you're prepared to go further afield and do daft things like heli logging or oil work in dangerous third world places. A hell of a lot more money than you'll make flogging a C206 round a safari park anyway.
Also, are you hell bent on fixed wing or would you consider helicopter flying, there's plenty of good jobs these days in the rotary sector flying offshore, EMS, police helicopters etc. And crazy money on offer if you're prepared to go further afield and do daft things like heli logging or oil work in dangerous third world places. A hell of a lot more money than you'll make flogging a C206 round a safari park anyway.
I'm British, have worked in aviation all my adult life, never been an airline pilot, never wanted to be an airline pilot.
My solution, which works for me and some others I could name, but certainly doesn't suit everybody, is to combine professional flying with other roles.
So, I have my CPL. I also have two aeronautical engineering degrees and have managed to build up a lot of experience. My work has spanned flight test engineering, airworthiness engineering, research management, and classroom teaching for universities - as well as flying instruction, a bit of ferry flying, quite a lot of test flying, writing the occasional aviation book.
You can do it, but acknowledge that you won't be following the mainstream, and will need to find your own path
Luke's point about rotary is very valid, but also look at the wealth of military flying roles. Yes, incredibly competitive to get into, and you've got to believe, and show that you believe, in what you're doing - but I can't offhand think of any military flying job that doesn't appeal to me more than becoming an airline pilot.
My solution, which works for me and some others I could name, but certainly doesn't suit everybody, is to combine professional flying with other roles.
So, I have my CPL. I also have two aeronautical engineering degrees and have managed to build up a lot of experience. My work has spanned flight test engineering, airworthiness engineering, research management, and classroom teaching for universities - as well as flying instruction, a bit of ferry flying, quite a lot of test flying, writing the occasional aviation book.
You can do it, but acknowledge that you won't be following the mainstream, and will need to find your own path
Luke's point about rotary is very valid, but also look at the wealth of military flying roles. Yes, incredibly competitive to get into, and you've got to believe, and show that you believe, in what you're doing - but I can't offhand think of any military flying job that doesn't appeal to me more than becoming an airline pilot.
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 20th Jun 2015 at 10:56.
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Thanks for all the replies guys.
First of all it's nice to know that it is possible, as a few of you have said.
Luke SkyToddler - you're completely right when you say 19 is young to be making decisions like this and your words of caution are very helpful. I'm not absolutely set down this path and it is useful to know the opinions of people with a much greater wealth of knowledge than me. The bush flying was to an extent just an example (although it does appeal) and thanks Council Van for the suggestions closer to home.
Your solution is well worth bearing in mind Genghis. I'm afraid I'm fairly set against military flying. Exciting though I'm sure it would be, I don't think the lifestyle is for me. Your combination of qualifications sounds a good way of doing things.
Thanks again for the replies. I look forward to more thoughts - notes of caution are just as welcome as encouragement.
First of all it's nice to know that it is possible, as a few of you have said.
Luke SkyToddler - you're completely right when you say 19 is young to be making decisions like this and your words of caution are very helpful. I'm not absolutely set down this path and it is useful to know the opinions of people with a much greater wealth of knowledge than me. The bush flying was to an extent just an example (although it does appeal) and thanks Council Van for the suggestions closer to home.
Your solution is well worth bearing in mind Genghis. I'm afraid I'm fairly set against military flying. Exciting though I'm sure it would be, I don't think the lifestyle is for me. Your combination of qualifications sounds a good way of doing things.
Thanks again for the replies. I look forward to more thoughts - notes of caution are just as welcome as encouragement.
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If it's variety and small aircraft you want, then a company like Netjets probably offers a lot more of it than your average bush operator anyway. Those guys go to hundreds of different airfields in all kinds of far flung remote corners of Europe, and every day is a new and different challenge.
Even in the airlines it's not all repetitive and boring, it's not all 14 hour long haul flights, I work for Vietnam Airlines and our A320 and ATR72 fleet goes to all kinds of weird and wonderful places with short runways and big mountains and non precision approaches. Trust me, you won't get bored flying into a strip like Dien Bien or Luang Prabang in the rainy season
I suggest you keep doing your research and think outside the box a bit
Even in the airlines it's not all repetitive and boring, it's not all 14 hour long haul flights, I work for Vietnam Airlines and our A320 and ATR72 fleet goes to all kinds of weird and wonderful places with short runways and big mountains and non precision approaches. Trust me, you won't get bored flying into a strip like Dien Bien or Luang Prabang in the rainy season
I suggest you keep doing your research and think outside the box a bit
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Luke, sounds like fun.
A pity we're not hiring...
And you're right, plenty of variety...
A pity we're not hiring...
And you're right, plenty of variety...
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All fair and well Luke! That flying does seem like fun. The reality is that the likes of Vietnam Airlines will never look at an expat FO without experience. And to get that experience you'll probably have to "go airline" anyway beforehand.
The days of getting an ATR/A320 job by doing 2000 hours of Caravan flying and then a season or two of twin turbine time are history. ie the natural progression.
These days it's "must have Type Rating with hours on type or there's the door"!
PS: No doubt a particular person from a Certain Training Company will be on here soon telling us in a two page essay, how good his organization is at placing cadets etc, but that's a whole different debate now. All in my humble opinion of course.
The days of getting an ATR/A320 job by doing 2000 hours of Caravan flying and then a season or two of twin turbine time are history. ie the natural progression.
These days it's "must have Type Rating with hours on type or there's the door"!
PS: No doubt a particular person from a Certain Training Company
will be on here soon telling us in a two page essay, how good his organization is at placing cadets etc, but that's a whole different debate now. All in my humble opinion of course.
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Hi FoxtrotGolf,
Not quite sure how the charter airline market is across the pond, but here in North America a pilot can make quite a nice living as a charter/executive pilot. Depending upon the company and equipment, you can get in the door with a basic CPL or will require a couple thousand hours if they're flying jets. Each company will have specific minimums based on their clients and contracts.
Destinations vary. You can spend an entire month doing nothing but short trips to the same place and then a couple months going all over the world. Pairings are often only a day or two long, but can end up being a week or more. Sometimes it is just like flying for the airlines (without parking at a terminal) while other days its like flying in the bush.
Money is often slightly better to start out with than an airline gig, although the airlines tend to end up better in the last 10 to 15 years of an average career. In saying that, proper money management can still have you enjoying a great retirement at the end of the run.
You won't fly as much as you would at an airline (I average about 400 to 500 a year) but hours in a logbook only perk your ego. After about 3,500 hours they're just numbers that start to show how much time you've spent away from family.
Good luck!
Not quite sure how the charter airline market is across the pond, but here in North America a pilot can make quite a nice living as a charter/executive pilot. Depending upon the company and equipment, you can get in the door with a basic CPL or will require a couple thousand hours if they're flying jets. Each company will have specific minimums based on their clients and contracts.
Destinations vary. You can spend an entire month doing nothing but short trips to the same place and then a couple months going all over the world. Pairings are often only a day or two long, but can end up being a week or more. Sometimes it is just like flying for the airlines (without parking at a terminal) while other days its like flying in the bush.
Money is often slightly better to start out with than an airline gig, although the airlines tend to end up better in the last 10 to 15 years of an average career. In saying that, proper money management can still have you enjoying a great retirement at the end of the run.
You won't fly as much as you would at an airline (I average about 400 to 500 a year) but hours in a logbook only perk your ego. After about 3,500 hours they're just numbers that start to show how much time you've spent away from family.
Good luck!
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Bush effect
Some really interesting posts here.
About a year ago all I wanted to do was wear a crisp white shirt and join an airline.
But the more I've learnt about working for airlines (from pilots, this forum) I wonder if that's really what I want to do now.
I'm not sure monitoring instruments on a flight deck for several hours a day is really that exciting.
Bush work seems to offer more job satisfaction, albeit for less pay and more danger.
I guess I might change my mind if kids and a mortgage come up, but at the moment I wonder if this is all for me???
About a year ago all I wanted to do was wear a crisp white shirt and join an airline.
But the more I've learnt about working for airlines (from pilots, this forum) I wonder if that's really what I want to do now.
I'm not sure monitoring instruments on a flight deck for several hours a day is really that exciting.
Bush work seems to offer more job satisfaction, albeit for less pay and more danger.
I guess I might change my mind if kids and a mortgage come up, but at the moment I wonder if this is all for me???
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Would any airline pilots recommend someone who didn't want to become an airline pilot go into the industry?
I was fortunate to have the money to complete my Frozen atpl while in college and doing other jobs. I love reading about and flying small planes but i never aspired to be an airline pilot. I did my ppl over a few years and then just carried on with the cpl with no set goal in mind.
I have massive respect for airlines pilots and its an incredibly tough job but because it never appealed to me i never went for it. I have met people who all they wanted to do was fly the big stuff and when they achieved it some seemed a small bit deflated and i thought if they were like that after reaching a goal they always wanted I wouldn't be happy in that position especially having spent all the extra money on MCC TR etc.
I have turned 30 now and always thought maybe i would instruct on the side or travel and do some bush flying.
I also read somewhere online i think it was maybe here on pprune a captain saying stay away from the airline industry unless its your passion as there is nothing worse than a FO arriving in the flight deck on his first day and he doesn't want to be there.
I was fortunate to have the money to complete my Frozen atpl while in college and doing other jobs. I love reading about and flying small planes but i never aspired to be an airline pilot. I did my ppl over a few years and then just carried on with the cpl with no set goal in mind.
I have massive respect for airlines pilots and its an incredibly tough job but because it never appealed to me i never went for it. I have met people who all they wanted to do was fly the big stuff and when they achieved it some seemed a small bit deflated and i thought if they were like that after reaching a goal they always wanted I wouldn't be happy in that position especially having spent all the extra money on MCC TR etc.
I have turned 30 now and always thought maybe i would instruct on the side or travel and do some bush flying.
I also read somewhere online i think it was maybe here on pprune a captain saying stay away from the airline industry unless its your passion as there is nothing worse than a FO arriving in the flight deck on his first day and he doesn't want to be there.
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If you're going to go travelling a couple of extra languages will probably do you more good than a licence, were it not for the fact that you need one to fly....
Good luck!
Phil
Good luck!
Phil
