Can I start my IR with an FAA PPL

[airbornehenry]

Hello,
I have a FAA PPL, all EASA ATPL theory passes and 100 PIC.
I now hope to start EASA IR/CPL training here in Europe.
Can I start my IR with an FAA PPL? I mean, is it possible to add an EASA IR onto a non-EASA ICAO licence?
If not then do i need to convert my PPL or would it be enough to get an EASA 1 year validation?
Can't seem to find the relevant information online and I'm still waiting on a reply from CAA so if anybody has had any experience with this or knows the ropes then I would be very grateful for some info!

[pakythepilot]

A rating is based on your license, so I thing it's not possible to add an IR EASA rating on a PPL FAA based license. Even if it is possible I think you will get in so much trouble with burocracy that converting your PPL could be the more troubleless and a viable way to achieve it.

[2close]

The Aircrew Regulation 1178/2011 states in Appendix 6 - Modular training courses for the IR (A) — Modular flying training course, that:

2. An applicant for a modular IR(A) course shall be the holder of a PPL(A) or a CPL(A), including the privileges to fly at night.

The regulation only applies to EASA Part-FCL licences so you should hold an EASA PPL.

Hope that helps.

[maximus610]

No, you can't. IR is a rating that must be attached to a full standing EASA

license. It could be a PPL or a CPL.

I think you can start your EASA CPL training with FAA PPL and EASA ATPL

theory only(of course, if you meet the requirements 100h PIC etc).

[BillieBob]

Can I start my IR with an FAA PPL? I mean, is it possible to add an EASA IR onto a non-EASA ICAO licence?

No, you will have to hold a valid EASA PPL.

FCL.610 IR - Prerequisites and crediting
Applicants for the IR shall:

(a) hold:

(1) at least a PPL in the appropriate aircraft category;....

GM1 FCL.005 Scope

(a) Whenever licences, ratings, approvals or certificates are mentioned in Part-FCL, these are meant to be valid licences, ratings, approvals or certificates issued in accordance with Part-FCL. In all other cases, these documents are specified.

FCL.610 does not specify an ICAO PPL and, therefore, means a valid EASA PPL. An ICAO licence validated in accordance with Annex III to Regulation 1178/2011 is not issued in accordance with Part-FCL (which is Annex I) and, therefore, does not count. In any case, even if you completed the course, the FAA would not include an EASA IR in the licence.

[airbornehenry]

ok, thanks for the help. Looks like it'll have to be the conversion. Is that just a skills test?
I would just start with CPL but that would involve extra time building if i were to have 200 hours by the skills test.
Thanks again!

[pakythepilot]

In uk at least you need to re-sit a couple of PPL subjects, then you will fly with a flight instructor to see if you are proficency to fly into european airspace.

[2close]

As you have already done the EASA ATPL theory, it seems you wish to fly commercially in the EU.

Why not do the EASA CPL first, which you can do with a FAA PPL and ATPL theory and then bolt the EASA IR onto the CPL. You could in fact do the two courses in tandem, CPL then IR then apply for the CPL and IR at the same time, saving you admin costs as well.

This will save you having to convert the FAA PPL to an EASA PPL.

If you do want to get the EASA PPL, you will not have to sit any PPL exams as any theory exams passed at a higher level are valid for licence issue at any lower level, i.e. ATPL exams are valid for CPL and for PPL.

Hope that helps.

[airbornehenry]

I had thought about that but the only problem is the 200 hour rule for the CPL skills test. Right now I have just under 160 so even with the full 25 hour CPL I won't reach 200. Is there a way around that? I had hoped that I would be able to do the IR training but not take the skills test, giving me enough hours for the CPL, then return for IR skills test later but I've been told that might not be allowed. Any info on this?
Thanks so much for the help!

[MartinCh]

200hrs is for LICENCE ISSUE

150hrs to start the CPL modular course

'applicant for' licence/rating is when having done/met requirements

pre-requisites for a course - conditions to be met before starting it.

While you CAN attach FAA IR on validation of foreign licence, it's still FAA licence, albeit foreign based. NOT the other way, as you've been told by many and if you read the regs of which you supposedly passed the ATPLs (if not only cramming ABCD choices), or even simply used search button on that downloadable pdf doc.


If you have nearly 160hrs, 25hrs course, then the full IR minus the basic instrument training credit from doing CPL module, plenty hours for licence issue, 200+

THIS took me 2mins to find online incl opening file and copy/paste (incomplete extract direct from reg)
2. Before commencing a CPL(A) modular course an applicant shall be the holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention.
3. Before commencing the flight training the applicant shall:
(a) have completed 150 hours flight time;
EXPERIENCE
12. The applicant for a CPL(A) shall have completed at least 200 hours flight time, including at least:
(a) 100 hours as PIC, of which 20 hours of cross-country flight as PIC, which shall include a VFR cross-country flight of at least 540 km (300 NM), in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made;

If you must avoid extra flight test, well, it's bit of Catch-22 if the ATO won't let you start IR course, as the Appendix 6 A 2 talks only about applicant for course having PPL(A) or CPL(A), not the ICAO/Chicago convention licence, as it is for the CPL (plus the exam credits).
Ask the ATO you would do your training at, to clarify if they let you do the IR course where at the end you'd be able to apply for CPL after flight test/module, reaching 200TT and then doing the flight test for IR.

Check AMC doc for more details, make a call.