Ex-Virgin?
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Thanks for all your support, peeps, it is very much appreciated. As flite idol intimates, there is a suggestion that Virgin will apply type rather than seniority criteria to the selection of candidates for redundancy, which is why I believe I'm on my way out.
If those of you who are BALPA members have any opinions on the rights or wrongs of this, please let BALPA know today. I'm trying to raise awareness of this issue on Rumours, Virgin's own forum, and the Virgin crew website. I've also e-mailed Chris Darke, the secretary of BALPA, to let him know what I think of the idea of non-seniority based redundancy.
While my actions may very well affect others junior to me, and for that I'm sorry, I believe that to abandon seniority will undermine the security of every airline pilot in UK. That is why I believe that anyone who has an interest in a just and reasonable employment policy should let BALPA know their opinions.
Sorry to use Wannabe's for a bit of politicking, but this subject should be very important to any of you who want to join the airline industry.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: Scroggs ]
If those of you who are BALPA members have any opinions on the rights or wrongs of this, please let BALPA know today. I'm trying to raise awareness of this issue on Rumours, Virgin's own forum, and the Virgin crew website. I've also e-mailed Chris Darke, the secretary of BALPA, to let him know what I think of the idea of non-seniority based redundancy.
While my actions may very well affect others junior to me, and for that I'm sorry, I believe that to abandon seniority will undermine the security of every airline pilot in UK. That is why I believe that anyone who has an interest in a just and reasonable employment policy should let BALPA know their opinions.
Sorry to use Wannabe's for a bit of politicking, but this subject should be very important to any of you who want to join the airline industry.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: Scroggs ]
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Scroggs
Sorry to hear that, I hope you're wrong and they're going to keep you on..
I don't really understand the seniority thing, I'm just another wannabe. I do admire you though and have found you reliable and honest. Your postings have helped me and a very large number of people like me.
I wish you the very best of luck. You don't deserve this.
Best wishes and kind regards
Nigel
Sorry to hear that, I hope you're wrong and they're going to keep you on..
I don't really understand the seniority thing, I'm just another wannabe. I do admire you though and have found you reliable and honest. Your postings have helped me and a very large number of people like me.
I wish you the very best of luck. You don't deserve this.
Best wishes and kind regards
Nigel
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Unfortunately, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but people are not made redundant, their posts are.
Therefore Virgin will argue that the Classic fleet is being retired, so therefore, the posts required to man the fleet are no longer required.
Therefore Virgin will argue that the Classic fleet is being retired, so therefore, the posts required to man the fleet are no longer required.
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no sponsor you are forgetting that there is a pilot's union that actively represents speaks for its members.
Most companies actually run a last in, first out policy when it comes to reduncancies, which is by all means the fairest system.
However, it appears that Virgin are making redundant older fleet pilots, regardless of their seniority. They are still all pilots, just with a different type rating than the ones keeping their jobs. This should not be a hindrance, THEY ARE ALL PILOTS. So Virgin are making Pilots redundant, and therefore should operate a fair system.
Not sure I am making myself clear, I am just a wannabe like most on this forum. What I am trying to say is everyone that flies for Virgin regardless of type is a pilot. And therefore pilots are being made redundant and to select a type is unjust and unlawful in this country. (As BA found to its cost)
Scroggs have I got it totally wrong, or is that the jist of the argument?.
Sagey
Most companies actually run a last in, first out policy when it comes to reduncancies, which is by all means the fairest system.
However, it appears that Virgin are making redundant older fleet pilots, regardless of their seniority. They are still all pilots, just with a different type rating than the ones keeping their jobs. This should not be a hindrance, THEY ARE ALL PILOTS. So Virgin are making Pilots redundant, and therefore should operate a fair system.
Not sure I am making myself clear, I am just a wannabe like most on this forum. What I am trying to say is everyone that flies for Virgin regardless of type is a pilot. And therefore pilots are being made redundant and to select a type is unjust and unlawful in this country. (As BA found to its cost)
Scroggs have I got it totally wrong, or is that the jist of the argument?.
Sagey
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There is a legal requirement to honour seniority when deciding lay-offs, unless an airline can prove to BALPA that there is no reasonable alternative. Pilots are deployed to aircraft types by the airline, not by individual choice. There is no policy of placing older pilots on older aircraft or anything like that, it's simply a matter of where the vacancies are. Fleet changes happen all the time within the airline as requirements change, but all changes, promotions, benefits, leave etc are determined by seniority. So should termination be, but we'll see on Friday if that is to be the case.
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Just read your post and would like to pass on my best wishes in the hope that things turn out ok.
Although I have had no indication of anything like this from my employer I was only thinking yesterday how vulnerable I feel being one of the 'last in'. The only positive thought I could see is that if jobs are still going somewhere in the industry it is better to be out early and looking rather than being in a company who 'put off the inevitable' and then you end up out after everyone else.
Good luck mate
PP
Although I have had no indication of anything like this from my employer I was only thinking yesterday how vulnerable I feel being one of the 'last in'. The only positive thought I could see is that if jobs are still going somewhere in the industry it is better to be out early and looking rather than being in a company who 'put off the inevitable' and then you end up out after everyone else.
Good luck mate
PP
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Once again, thank you for all your good wishes. In less than 24 hours I, and many others, will know some of what the future holds.
In view of the fact that jobs are going to be difficult to come by, I reckon I will have a good deal of spare time in the near future. Therefore, I hope you will forgive me if I do a bit of personal advertising.....
As many will know, I've been a QFI and an interviewer in the RAF and I've kept a close eye on the civilian employment world for the last few years. I believe I have a good grasp of the industry and its requirements.
I am available(!) for any one of you to pick my brains, run CVs by and even give you practice interviews. This can't be free; I have now to cover my expenses. But if I can help anyone in this way, please e-mail me. I'm not trying to turn this into a business' just to offer time that I think I might now have somewhat more of than in the past. But I don't intend to be unemployed for long, so don't waste time!
Anyway, all the best to all of you. Thank you once again for your support.
In view of the fact that jobs are going to be difficult to come by, I reckon I will have a good deal of spare time in the near future. Therefore, I hope you will forgive me if I do a bit of personal advertising.....
As many will know, I've been a QFI and an interviewer in the RAF and I've kept a close eye on the civilian employment world for the last few years. I believe I have a good grasp of the industry and its requirements.
I am available(!) for any one of you to pick my brains, run CVs by and even give you practice interviews. This can't be free; I have now to cover my expenses. But if I can help anyone in this way, please e-mail me. I'm not trying to turn this into a business' just to offer time that I think I might now have somewhat more of than in the past. But I don't intend to be unemployed for long, so don't waste time!
Anyway, all the best to all of you. Thank you once again for your support.
Flies for fun
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Scroggs, I offer you my every good wish for Friday. I have always worked on not counting chickens before they hatch and not burying them until they die!! My personal experience is that often good comes out of apparent disaster. I don't personally relish the thought of R.B. as my guvnor anyway from what I've heard!
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Will be most keen to take you up your generous offer Scroggs, as I'm sure will plenty of others. Look forward to seeing you at the seminars and Gatbash for a quiet one (on me).
Chin up big fella.
FK
Chin up big fella.
FK
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Just read the post. I'm really sorry to hear it Scroggs. You've done so much for the Wannabees (now on a BA sponsorship thanks to a lot of your help). Hope things turn out and good luck with your seminars. Can't think of a better person for the job!
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scroggs
sorry to hear the news mate,
but i strongly believe that someone who does so much good for others will be rewarded in the end, i am absolutely sure of that.
looking forward to hearing something good from you soon.
ph
sorry to hear the news mate,
but i strongly believe that someone who does so much good for others will be rewarded in the end, i am absolutely sure of that.
looking forward to hearing something good from you soon.
ph
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Scroggs, sorry to hear your not so good news. I've been through all this and being- oops macfee telling me about nimda - to resume - and being made redundant turned out to be the best career move I've ever made and I mean it - so perhaps you will benefit as I did.
Is it true you never met up with your Instructor at Linton i.e. you never wore your glasses and therefore could not read the BIG numbers on the many JPs - so you were never in the same aircraft !
Night Flying must have been difficult ....
Scroggs - 'have you done the externals?' Yes Sir - 'Well did you use a torch ?
'No Sir'
'Well get out of the Bowser then' ! !
Is it true you never met up with your Instructor at Linton i.e. you never wore your glasses and therefore could not read the BIG numbers on the many JPs - so you were never in the same aircraft !
Night Flying must have been difficult ....
Scroggs - 'have you done the externals?' Yes Sir - 'Well did you use a torch ?
'No Sir'
'Well get out of the Bowser then' ! !
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Sorry to hear that Scroggs, I am also an ex-virgin! Word of advice, when they say 'you will have great chances at other virgin airlines', don't bloody believe them! They told us the same shyt at VEI!!!
