Computer Flight Simulations for Training
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i would sure recommend it. I also use microsoft for ir training. The only thing i hate is the fact that there is not a decent information about power settings and the associated pitch attitudes.
good luck
good luck
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Try this program instead of MS2004 - much better panels, more realistic flight model, cheaper than MS, much closer to the real thing:
www.x-plane.com
If installed with the correct hardware, this is even approved by the FAA for logging FTD hours towards the ATPL. To my knowledge, MS2004 has never obtained that approval.
This is a top-notch sim for PC.
Good luck,
KK
www.x-plane.com
If installed with the correct hardware, this is even approved by the FAA for logging FTD hours towards the ATPL. To my knowledge, MS2004 has never obtained that approval.
This is a top-notch sim for PC.
Good luck,
KK
The Cooler King
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King Rooney...
That's a great idea. You can even do a great experiment that will help with your questions on a previous post here
At 0800 on a Thursday morning, using the real world ATC option, hand fly the ILS on the 737-400 into Heathrow.
Then go off on a bender of drink and drugs for the weekend and then hand fly the same ILS on the Monday morning......and see if there's a difference. (Make sure to save both Flight profiles so that you can see how you did!)
Keep alternating from bender to bender for six months or so and by then you should see a pattern start to emerge.
That's a great idea. You can even do a great experiment that will help with your questions on a previous post here
At 0800 on a Thursday morning, using the real world ATC option, hand fly the ILS on the 737-400 into Heathrow.
Then go off on a bender of drink and drugs for the weekend and then hand fly the same ILS on the Monday morning......and see if there's a difference. (Make sure to save both Flight profiles so that you can see how you did!)
Keep alternating from bender to bender for six months or so and by then you should see a pattern start to emerge.
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The problem I found with it is that it is very twitchy in pitch and very difficult to regulate the speed properly.
If you are new to IFR, it even comes with built-in IFR exercises.
The user's guide has a table with power settings and the pitch attitudes.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Elite Pilot Training Software
A few questions for fellow Elite users:
I'm thinking about purchasing Elite Pilot simulation software to aid my IMC Rating training (and my IR in the future), and I have played with the downloadable demo version.
From the demo software, I found the Arrow had a very quick acceleration rate on the takeoff run. Although I have never flown this aircraft, it seemed unrealistic. I realise the sim is primarily about practising instrument flying, but it begged the question, is this perceived unrealism echoed throughout the sim? How do you rate Elite as an IFR training tool?
If I buy the software, I won't be purchasing any addtional hardware, though I have a yoke with a thottle.
Thank you,
POL
I'm thinking about purchasing Elite Pilot simulation software to aid my IMC Rating training (and my IR in the future), and I have played with the downloadable demo version.
From the demo software, I found the Arrow had a very quick acceleration rate on the takeoff run. Although I have never flown this aircraft, it seemed unrealistic. I realise the sim is primarily about practising instrument flying, but it begged the question, is this perceived unrealism echoed throughout the sim? How do you rate Elite as an IFR training tool?
If I buy the software, I won't be purchasing any addtional hardware, though I have a yoke with a thottle.
Thank you,
POL
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Try X-Plane (www.x-plane.com) instead of Elite. Buy the sim, then get the aircraft model from www.c74.net (10 dollars).
X-Plane is a more realistic sim than Elite in every respect (better flight model, more realistic panels and instruments) and much cheaper.
I believe it's also FAA approved for logging hours towards the ATP, which to my mind Elite is not. I can't praise it enough, and credit to the guy who makes it with a tiny team of developers.
This is an outstanding and cost-effective IFR training tool and definitely worth the money.
Good luck,
KK
X-Plane is a more realistic sim than Elite in every respect (better flight model, more realistic panels and instruments) and much cheaper.
I believe it's also FAA approved for logging hours towards the ATP, which to my mind Elite is not. I can't praise it enough, and credit to the guy who makes it with a tiny team of developers.
This is an outstanding and cost-effective IFR training tool and definitely worth the money.
Good luck,
KK
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At the School where I Instruct at at the moment, we have 3 simulators running the Elite Program. Although we do use Elite with iGATE hardware I believe the Elite itself is an awesome piece of realistic software, the graphics mind you are not very adventurous. We also use the Elite for Multi-Engine training so yes I believe the Physics is also good. And remember you can change sensitivities and so on aswell.
I haven't heard of the one the other dude is talking about, I am sure he is also right.
Good luck on your search.
A
I haven't heard of the one the other dude is talking about, I am sure he is also right.
Good luck on your search.
A
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Pole Hill,
I've got the PC version of Elite and it is excellent; very ergonomic, detailed and with fully functional avionics. It is expensive, but one thing to bear in mind is that you don't need an uber computer to run Elite.
Have you started the IMC yet? I found that once I did a few IMC lessons I had a better idea of what I personally wanted from a sim. If you haven't started then don't spend any money yet would be my advice.
I've got the PC version of Elite and it is excellent; very ergonomic, detailed and with fully functional avionics. It is expensive, but one thing to bear in mind is that you don't need an uber computer to run Elite.
Have you started the IMC yet? I found that once I did a few IMC lessons I had a better idea of what I personally wanted from a sim. If you haven't started then don't spend any money yet would be my advice.
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I've been a MSFS fan ever since FS95. FS2004 represents milliopns of hours of hard work. It should not be avoided. Some people have a tendency to disregard MSFS due to share ignorance. It's MS so it can't be realistic! Rubbish. I got to try out Elite the other day, it does not even compare to MSFS. Just download an IFR Panel and a bad weather scenario. Beats Elite anyday.
Join Date: May 2005
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I used ELITE in preparation for my IR rating. I found it very usefull and I am still using it to stay sharp.
BUT:
They told me, that they will NOT be able to provide some "glass" in the future, neither a simple GNS430 nor something like the G1000.
With companies like RealityXP or ProjectMagenta providing first-class glass for FS2004, it would find it hard to legitimate spending money on ELITE theses days and would (and actuallay did) go for FS2004 and spend the money on some add-ons.
Best Regards
Cole
BUT:
They told me, that they will NOT be able to provide some "glass" in the future, neither a simple GNS430 nor something like the G1000.
With companies like RealityXP or ProjectMagenta providing first-class glass for FS2004, it would find it hard to legitimate spending money on ELITE theses days and would (and actuallay did) go for FS2004 and spend the money on some add-ons.
Best Regards
Cole
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Elite is quite a good program actually. It's basic, but it is functional.
Do you really need a GNS430 simulator in your IR trainer?
Elite software is used to get a basic understanding of instruments
and situational awareness. If you want to learn how to use a GNS430
you can download a GNS430 simulator from the Garmin website for free.
Understanding a specific GPS is just not what this sort of software is designed for.
Also, Elite (and others) is, in combination with hardware, recognized as PCATD and as such useable as trainingsoftware for the initial IR, and up to 10 hours can be logged for 141 training, providing there is a flightinstructor with you. Neither MSFS and X-plane are to the best of my knowledge. (This all under FAA regulations, not JAA)
Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against any of the above mentioned products. I have used all, both personally and with my students. But to get a basic understanding of IR flight, how the actual simulator looks doesn't matter at all, and all software will work fine for personal use.
Do you really need a GNS430 simulator in your IR trainer?
Elite software is used to get a basic understanding of instruments
and situational awareness. If you want to learn how to use a GNS430
you can download a GNS430 simulator from the Garmin website for free.
Understanding a specific GPS is just not what this sort of software is designed for.
Also, Elite (and others) is, in combination with hardware, recognized as PCATD and as such useable as trainingsoftware for the initial IR, and up to 10 hours can be logged for 141 training, providing there is a flightinstructor with you. Neither MSFS and X-plane are to the best of my knowledge. (This all under FAA regulations, not JAA)
Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against any of the above mentioned products. I have used all, both personally and with my students. But to get a basic understanding of IR flight, how the actual simulator looks doesn't matter at all, and all software will work fine for personal use.
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Even with the best add-on tools for Microsoft, there's something which makes that program "worse" as an IFR training tool than Elite or X-Plane: The panels.
Even with the highest quality settings, on a high-end machine, the instruments are not rendered in a resolution anywhere comparable to Elite/X-Plane, and needles never move entirely smoothly. These two problems can be significant when practicing certain IFR manouevres. No dip on the ADF needle either.
FS2004 may have some value as an IFR training tool, but that's not what it is seriously indended for - it's mainly meant to render nice VFR scenery.
Since both Elite and X-Plane can be tried for free, it makes sense to evaluate them before buying.
By the way - X-Plane DOES support GNS430 (not will all functions, but most).
Yeah,
KK
Even with the highest quality settings, on a high-end machine, the instruments are not rendered in a resolution anywhere comparable to Elite/X-Plane, and needles never move entirely smoothly. These two problems can be significant when practicing certain IFR manouevres. No dip on the ADF needle either.
FS2004 may have some value as an IFR training tool, but that's not what it is seriously indended for - it's mainly meant to render nice VFR scenery.
Since both Elite and X-Plane can be tried for free, it makes sense to evaluate them before buying.
By the way - X-Plane DOES support GNS430 (not will all functions, but most).
Yeah,
KK
Join Date: Feb 2003
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The next version of FS, due out later this year will have glass panels as default. G1000 in the Cessna etc.
I use Rant ans MS Flight Sim. Maybe there's a better combination but these seem pretty good to me.
I use Rant ans MS Flight Sim. Maybe there's a better combination but these seem pretty good to me.
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Advanced avionics like the GNS 430 today are installed today even in the most basic IFR capable airplanes.
PC-based simulators are often used to keep at least a minimum level of system operating skills. You will loose your knowledge about how to operate the avionics BEFORE your skills of basic instrument flying detoriate beyond a level a simulator can fix.
If a simulation tool can not meet the demand of simulating actual avionics embedded in an airplane it's of no use for maintaining airplane operating skills.
It then can only help teach basic instrument flying and that's what ELITE is still good for.
And about the lack of panel quality: try Flight1's FS2004-based Meridian and compare it with what you get with version 8.0 of ELITE ;-)
Best Regards
Cole
PC-based simulators are often used to keep at least a minimum level of system operating skills. You will loose your knowledge about how to operate the avionics BEFORE your skills of basic instrument flying detoriate beyond a level a simulator can fix.
If a simulation tool can not meet the demand of simulating actual avionics embedded in an airplane it's of no use for maintaining airplane operating skills.
It then can only help teach basic instrument flying and that's what ELITE is still good for.
And about the lack of panel quality: try Flight1's FS2004-based Meridian and compare it with what you get with version 8.0 of ELITE ;-)
Best Regards
Cole
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Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'll look into X-Plane, I forgot about that particular sim.
High Wing Drifter,
I've had one IMC lesson. I am looking for a sim to practice the whole flight scenerio, from the aspects of IFR flight, to managing the aircraft e.g. changing fuel tanks in flight. I only have a PIII with 256MB RAM, so Elite would run ok, whilst MS FS would struggle.
KrazyKraut
"Even with the best add-on tools for Microsoft, there's something which makes that program "worse" as an IFR training tool than Elite or X-Plane: The panels."
I agree, there is just something about MS FS thats makes it less suitable than other sims on the market, and it is the panels.
ColeTrickle,
I understand what you mean, but for the IMC and the IR, the training will be all done in aircraft with the traditional steam driven gauges, so understanding/operation of GNS 430 is not required.
Once again, thank you all for your feedback.
POL
High Wing Drifter,
I've had one IMC lesson. I am looking for a sim to practice the whole flight scenerio, from the aspects of IFR flight, to managing the aircraft e.g. changing fuel tanks in flight. I only have a PIII with 256MB RAM, so Elite would run ok, whilst MS FS would struggle.
KrazyKraut
"Even with the best add-on tools for Microsoft, there's something which makes that program "worse" as an IFR training tool than Elite or X-Plane: The panels."
I agree, there is just something about MS FS thats makes it less suitable than other sims on the market, and it is the panels.
ColeTrickle,
I understand what you mean, but for the IMC and the IR, the training will be all done in aircraft with the traditional steam driven gauges, so understanding/operation of GNS 430 is not required.
Once again, thank you all for your feedback.
POL
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Pole Hill,
with those specs, you might want to try an earlier version of X-Plane. I don't know much about it below version 6 (and 8 is current), but with the sim having been around so long, there'll be a version that suits your hardware perfectly.
And it might even be free if you know where to look. PC-based training doesn't come much cheaper than that!
toosleepy, a question - where's this rumour about FS2006 being released this year from, and it featuring a G1000 panel? I've been looking for that information about the next version, but can't find it.
with those specs, you might want to try an earlier version of X-Plane. I don't know much about it below version 6 (and 8 is current), but with the sim having been around so long, there'll be a version that suits your hardware perfectly.
And it might even be free if you know where to look. PC-based training doesn't come much cheaper than that!
toosleepy, a question - where's this rumour about FS2006 being released this year from, and it featuring a G1000 panel? I've been looking for that information about the next version, but can't find it.
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Scroggs - thanks.
Holy **** - those visuals are something else. Every version of FS has required stupendous hardware at the time it was released, but this looks like the biggest step forward in terms of visuals since FS98.
This doesn't add much to the "use-as-an-IFR-trainer-debate", but it underlines how great this is for VFR. Perhaps with its level of detail, it'll be the first-ever sim that can actually be used to teach and practive VFR navigation properly.
I fear, though, we'll need something like this to run it:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/01...eon_x1900_xtx/
That card alone costs as much as a whole PC.
Yeah,
KK
Holy **** - those visuals are something else. Every version of FS has required stupendous hardware at the time it was released, but this looks like the biggest step forward in terms of visuals since FS98.
This doesn't add much to the "use-as-an-IFR-trainer-debate", but it underlines how great this is for VFR. Perhaps with its level of detail, it'll be the first-ever sim that can actually be used to teach and practive VFR navigation properly.
I fear, though, we'll need something like this to run it:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/01...eon_x1900_xtx/
That card alone costs as much as a whole PC.
Yeah,
KK
Last edited by KrazyKraut; 3rd Feb 2006 at 15:28.
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KrazyKraut,
I'll have a dig around for an earlier version of x-plane, though I think that I'm going to go along with Elite. One point that I should mention that may save somebody else a few quid, you can buy the software cheaper directly from Elite on their website.
I have to say, the graphics for Flight Sim X looks outstanding, though interestingly, there are no panel shots.
A good weekend to you all
POL
I'll have a dig around for an earlier version of x-plane, though I think that I'm going to go along with Elite. One point that I should mention that may save somebody else a few quid, you can buy the software cheaper directly from Elite on their website.
I have to say, the graphics for Flight Sim X looks outstanding, though interestingly, there are no panel shots.
A good weekend to you all
POL
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KK, that's the way of the world! I can run FS9 (2004) on the laptop I'm using right now, with all the graphics options turned up to max, and running stuff like A320 Professional and Traffic 2005 with frame rates well up into the 30s. If a (admittedly fairly well-specced) laptop can do that, most not-too-budget new desktops will probably cope with FSX reasonably well.
Oh, and as for the point of the debate - I frequently use FS9 and the aforementioned A320 Professional (there is no A340 equivalent) to check out IFR approach procedures at airfields I'm unfamiliar with or rusty on. The default terrain mesh can mean that MSAs are a bit meaningless in places (try Gibraltar!), but, in general, if the aircraft and panel models are well constructed, FS9 is perfectly capable of giving an adequate IFR experience. The main problem is the lack of accessibility of the radio aids in most aircraft models, but then simulating a multi-crew environment is always going to be problemmatic on a computer!
Scroggs
Oh, and as for the point of the debate - I frequently use FS9 and the aforementioned A320 Professional (there is no A340 equivalent) to check out IFR approach procedures at airfields I'm unfamiliar with or rusty on. The default terrain mesh can mean that MSAs are a bit meaningless in places (try Gibraltar!), but, in general, if the aircraft and panel models are well constructed, FS9 is perfectly capable of giving an adequate IFR experience. The main problem is the lack of accessibility of the radio aids in most aircraft models, but then simulating a multi-crew environment is always going to be problemmatic on a computer!
Scroggs