BA recruitment (Merged)
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: CWL
Trying to get back to the subject in question, another factor seems to have been missed here.
If the BA pension was the major driving force behind people wanting to join up, then now it has gone people aren't going to be leaving their current airlines, and the fabled "retirement buldge" will not create the throughput that many here have predicted would happen.
That means a lot of self sponsored people out there won't be able to progress - which will be a nightmare.
If the BA pension was the major driving force behind people wanting to join up, then now it has gone people aren't going to be leaving their current airlines, and the fabled "retirement buldge" will not create the throughput that many here have predicted would happen.
That means a lot of self sponsored people out there won't be able to progress - which will be a nightmare.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: varies, depending on the night before!
I don't agree that TEP will be a cost effective option to the airlines within the immediate future. There have got to be a wealth of self-sponsored individuals out there who fit the 'Nigel' mould. I've met a number of very clever, 'stable extroverts' who tried for BA TEP once maybe twice before gaining their own finance for the ATPL, even though they still had a number of years to run before being outside of BA's TEP age limits. As it was they appear to have made the right decision, given 11/9 and BA's withdrawal of the scheme.
My point being that BA will be looking to bring these sort of people back into the net. Thus saving themselves thousands of pounds (lets not kid ourselves that the actual figures are important!
The saving is still there!)
The right individual (intelligent / dedicated) will always be committed enough to fund for the FATPL himself if there are no sponsorships available. How many sponsorship schemes are (or were) available to US students for US airlines, compared to the number who have to pay and instruct for their ATPL?
Even if BA do re-introduce the TEP, they are not guaranteed to find the right individual. Can you believe that there are people out there who have been sponsored, but binned 2 weeks prior to IRT and can't even be bothered to even try to find the extra funds to complete a couple of flights and obtain a FATPL. That was an extreme, but there are similar stories.
The long and short of it is BA will not lose out by not replacing the TEP scheme. Us wannabes will always find a way of obtaining the funds, and will always want to fly their jets
So why sit around and wait, it could be years before such a scheme is returned in some shape and form.
In my opinion. If you have the funds and stuck for time (i.e 30+), start a full time approved course. If your younger I would definitely look at modular, given the comments in this and other threads.
Sorry I appeared to have rambled on again!
My point being that BA will be looking to bring these sort of people back into the net. Thus saving themselves thousands of pounds (lets not kid ourselves that the actual figures are important!
The saving is still there!)The right individual (intelligent / dedicated) will always be committed enough to fund for the FATPL himself if there are no sponsorships available. How many sponsorship schemes are (or were) available to US students for US airlines, compared to the number who have to pay and instruct for their ATPL?
Even if BA do re-introduce the TEP, they are not guaranteed to find the right individual. Can you believe that there are people out there who have been sponsored, but binned 2 weeks prior to IRT and can't even be bothered to even try to find the extra funds to complete a couple of flights and obtain a FATPL. That was an extreme, but there are similar stories.
The long and short of it is BA will not lose out by not replacing the TEP scheme. Us wannabes will always find a way of obtaining the funds, and will always want to fly their jets
So why sit around and wait, it could be years before such a scheme is returned in some shape and form. In my opinion. If you have the funds and stuck for time (i.e 30+), start a full time approved course. If your younger I would definitely look at modular, given the comments in this and other threads.
Sorry I appeared to have rambled on again!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8
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From: United Kingdom
BA Recruitment Situation
Hi Folks,
Right, Firstly I'll appologise in advance, it's not my intention to badger anyone about the on-going BA recruitment situation-I know there is always a lot of threads about it, but is there anyone out there in the BA CEP hold pool who has heard any rumours, stories, etc. etc.?
If so I'd love to know when you think this recruitment freeze is likely to "thaw out". There are a fair pile of us who have been kept in limbo since the dreaded event. (Not moaning by the way-know we are luckier than those that just missed the boat).
I realise that up until say April 02, they didn't really know where they were going themselves, but now that things have settled down a bit and the "future size and shape" thing is in motion things should slowly be on the up. Right??
I am certainly not here to rock the boat, I still desperately want to fly for BA and am not complaining, but I cannot understand why we are not better informed as to when things are likely to change. I know that they may not have decided to tell us when they have decided (if ever) to restart the CEP scheme, but I cannot believe for one moment that no-one in BA (either in flight ops or senior management) doesn't know when they will need to recruit new staff.
When we were recruited, we were informed that there was an ongoing expansion, obviously now there is a substantial downsizing of some 50 aircraft and thousands of workers who have been made redundant. There was also however, a seemingly constant stream of pilot retirements some 100 p.a.? (due I think, to a freeze in recruitment back in the 80's?) to recruit replacements for. Does anyone know what has happened to these old timer's positions?
If anyone can shed even a feeble glint of light on the situation then I'd be mighty grateful and obviously so would everyone else in the hold pool.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
VORDME
Right, Firstly I'll appologise in advance, it's not my intention to badger anyone about the on-going BA recruitment situation-I know there is always a lot of threads about it, but is there anyone out there in the BA CEP hold pool who has heard any rumours, stories, etc. etc.?
If so I'd love to know when you think this recruitment freeze is likely to "thaw out". There are a fair pile of us who have been kept in limbo since the dreaded event. (Not moaning by the way-know we are luckier than those that just missed the boat).
I realise that up until say April 02, they didn't really know where they were going themselves, but now that things have settled down a bit and the "future size and shape" thing is in motion things should slowly be on the up. Right??
I am certainly not here to rock the boat, I still desperately want to fly for BA and am not complaining, but I cannot understand why we are not better informed as to when things are likely to change. I know that they may not have decided to tell us when they have decided (if ever) to restart the CEP scheme, but I cannot believe for one moment that no-one in BA (either in flight ops or senior management) doesn't know when they will need to recruit new staff.
When we were recruited, we were informed that there was an ongoing expansion, obviously now there is a substantial downsizing of some 50 aircraft and thousands of workers who have been made redundant. There was also however, a seemingly constant stream of pilot retirements some 100 p.a.? (due I think, to a freeze in recruitment back in the 80's?) to recruit replacements for. Does anyone know what has happened to these old timer's positions?
If anyone can shed even a feeble glint of light on the situation then I'd be mighty grateful and obviously so would everyone else in the hold pool.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
VORDME
Last edited by VORDME; 20th May 2002 at 18:34.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,845
From: England
I've heard late Autumn by someone inside BA who has a minor involvement with recruitment.
There are SO many variables that the answer to your question does not exist.
It'll come though.
WWW
There are SO many variables that the answer to your question does not exist.
It'll come though.
WWW
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 427
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From: where I shouldn’t be
CNN
Reading news like that does not instil any confidence that those who are just at the age limit will still make it into the program if and when it will restart.
The airline, which has cut more than 13,000 jobs and is overhauling its European operations to take on the low-cost operators, said it would continue to reign in costs to return to profitability
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 149
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From: South London
I think this has been said before but:
If BA aim to finish aircrew cuts by mid-2004, then any retirements the airline sees after that will need replacing. Cadets on the TEP scheme are in training for approx. 18 months, which theoretically means BA would need to start a TEP course in early 2003 (if they are to resume the scheme that is), and therefore recruitment for a course starting in early 2003 would beginning in late 2002.
This is purely speculation and is not based on anything other than rumours that BA will finish job cuts by 2004.
Here's hoping the airline continues to recover and decides to continue investing in cadets!
If BA aim to finish aircrew cuts by mid-2004, then any retirements the airline sees after that will need replacing. Cadets on the TEP scheme are in training for approx. 18 months, which theoretically means BA would need to start a TEP course in early 2003 (if they are to resume the scheme that is), and therefore recruitment for a course starting in early 2003 would beginning in late 2002.
This is purely speculation and is not based on anything other than rumours that BA will finish job cuts by 2004.
Here's hoping the airline continues to recover and decides to continue investing in cadets!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 724
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From: United Kingdom
You forgot all the people who are in training or have finished training with BA and are waiting for jobs/working with CitiExpress right now. Plus there is a pool of self-sponsored if they need to start it quickly. Sorry - late 2003 at the earliest I reckon.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 376
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From: London, England
According to my very highly placed source, BA need to begin recruitment right now but are unable to, due to the legal implications of hiring new employees whilst making other employees redundant. Recruitment should be starting again by February 2003, when the job shuffling at Waterworld is complete.
It is also recognised at the highest levels that BA will have a very difficult time recruiting DEPs considering the pay/pension package that they are offering (plus the very long time to command that new joiners will face).
My advice is to give this sorry company a miss. Nice flying but terrible management. Imagine an airline that needs pilots but won't hire them because they're worried that some ancient manager will sue them because they haven't re-trained him/her as an airline pilot! My suggestion is to put all of these displaced managers through the aptitude tests and medicals and lets just see how many of them are even suitable to begin training for a job that they think is so easy.
It is also recognised at the highest levels that BA will have a very difficult time recruiting DEPs considering the pay/pension package that they are offering (plus the very long time to command that new joiners will face).
My advice is to give this sorry company a miss. Nice flying but terrible management. Imagine an airline that needs pilots but won't hire them because they're worried that some ancient manager will sue them because they haven't re-trained him/her as an airline pilot! My suggestion is to put all of these displaced managers through the aptitude tests and medicals and lets just see how many of them are even suitable to begin training for a job that they think is so easy.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,845
From: England
BA has plenty of FO's with command time. They also have plenty of cadets awaiting a flying job.
I would wait until those people had started to move before you expect to see adverts from BA for pilots.
Current employment legislation would permit BA to make Waterside staff redundant whilst hiring new pilots.
BA will re-hire, if the rumours of 20 new 744's are true then it will be in a spectacular fashion, but I think it likely to be a minimum of 9 months for DEPs and 18 for TEPs.
But thats only a guess.
WWW
I would wait until those people had started to move before you expect to see adverts from BA for pilots.
Current employment legislation would permit BA to make Waterside staff redundant whilst hiring new pilots.
BA will re-hire, if the rumours of 20 new 744's are true then it will be in a spectacular fashion, but I think it likely to be a minimum of 9 months for DEPs and 18 for TEPs.
But thats only a guess.
WWW
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 376
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From: London, England
WWW - BA has plenty of F/Os who have no interest in any command other than one on a long haul fleet. The number of trained cadets waiting for work will be quickly absorbed due to the number of retirements, although which pension scheme they'll join under (NAPS or CRAPS) is being hotly debated by BALPA and BA management.
The non-recruitment of pilots is yet another example of pathetic political correctness at BA and is indicative of the state of the airline. I'm sure that once recruitment begins each empire head will ensure that they get an equal number of new feng shui managers and espresso temperature co-ordinators to match the number of new pilots.
The non-recruitment of pilots is yet another example of pathetic political correctness at BA and is indicative of the state of the airline. I'm sure that once recruitment begins each empire head will ensure that they get an equal number of new feng shui managers and espresso temperature co-ordinators to match the number of new pilots.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,845
From: England
Historically there has always been a lot of focus on BA recruitment because they were so big and what they did moved the whole market.
Interesting to consider that EZY are planning a new Boeing every 8 weeks for the next 7 years. In the time we wait for BA to start recruiting a hundred new pilots more than that will have joined EZY in the meantime.
The interesting time will come when BA are recruiting for DEP shorthaul against EZY. Remuneration and time to command being slightly better at EZY this will be a first in UK aviation - BA on the back heal in recruitment.
I suspect that BA will improve their remuneration markedly in the near future whilst maintaining their superior workload.
Interesting and turbulent times.
WWW
Interesting to consider that EZY are planning a new Boeing every 8 weeks for the next 7 years. In the time we wait for BA to start recruiting a hundred new pilots more than that will have joined EZY in the meantime.
The interesting time will come when BA are recruiting for DEP shorthaul against EZY. Remuneration and time to command being slightly better at EZY this will be a first in UK aviation - BA on the back heal in recruitment.
I suspect that BA will improve their remuneration markedly in the near future whilst maintaining their superior workload.
Interesting and turbulent times.
WWW
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Joined: Dec 1997
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From: Suffolk UK
I agree with WWW - BA's advantages in the manpower marketplace are being very seriously eroded. That's actually very bad news for all of us, as any worsening in their terms of service will inevitably have repercussions in all other UK airlines - but that's another argument!
The UK low-cost sector will be driving the jobs market for at least the next three years. By then, this sector may well be a larger pilot employer than BA and would then begin to dominate the FTOs' focus. BA could well find itself sucking the hind tit when it comes to choosing the best graduates fom the FTOs! With time to command much quicker, entry salaries much better, and pensions now on an equal footing within the sector, where's BA's recruiting advantage? If long-haul is your aim, you may be best off doing 5-6 years with EZ or Ryan and then applying to Virgin!
Don't take any of this as a concrete prediction for the future, but the times they are a-changin', and you need to keep your eyes on all the balls!
The UK low-cost sector will be driving the jobs market for at least the next three years. By then, this sector may well be a larger pilot employer than BA and would then begin to dominate the FTOs' focus. BA could well find itself sucking the hind tit when it comes to choosing the best graduates fom the FTOs! With time to command much quicker, entry salaries much better, and pensions now on an equal footing within the sector, where's BA's recruiting advantage? If long-haul is your aim, you may be best off doing 5-6 years with EZ or Ryan and then applying to Virgin!
Don't take any of this as a concrete prediction for the future, but the times they are a-changin', and you need to keep your eyes on all the balls!
Joined: May 2000
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Age limits
If the final pension scheme has been cancelled, does anyone think it therefore more likely that when the TEP scheme resumes the upper age limit may be raised? After all, the current age limit was based on the fact that BA operated with a final pension scheme. Any thoughts on this gratefully received!
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Joined: Dec 1997
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From: Suffolk UK
I suspect that the BA TEP age limit has more to do with their experience of the diminishing of learning ability with age than any pension considerations. It may also be related to their 55 year retirement age - they want to get a decent amount of service out of you!
