British Airways recruitment
 

Calm down. They haven't re-opened the TEP scheme, yet. :D

BA have made the long rumoured move of closing their final salary pension scheme. A Very Big Reason for joining BA as a direct entry pilot has thus dissapeared.

It might be the case that BA are going to rely more heavily in the future on their TEP scheme and less heavily on DEPs.

You might also be advised to keep an eye on GB Airways and British Mediteranean Airways. Both are expanding at Gatwick and Heathrow respectively. Seemingly they are taking over routes previously flown by BA. It is conceivable that both companies may offer a cadetship of some kind although they never have done so before.


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ok I`m stupid but what does TEP mean? (DEP is direct entry pilot, no?)
There are so many acronyms in aviation that my brains is leaking them all the time. :rolleyes:
So is this a good news rumour for us "proud" unemployed owners of a fATPL or only for those who are trying to get a paid cadet training scheme? Because it would be nice to get one of those for once.
Thanks.
Dolf

TEP = Trainee Entry Pilot. BA also have/had SSP (Self-Sponsored Pilot) whereby you do your integrated course, pass everything with a high mark first-time and get recommended by the boss of the flying school and maybe, just maybe you get invited for interview, pass and join at the Jet-Orientation phase of the training. This niche was in its infancy and early development when Al-Qaeda pressed the large red button marked 'STOP' on the Pilot Recruitment Sausage Machine.

If I were an airline I would reap the benefits of those wot ave funded themselves and go with a Cadet scheme a la SSP or a type-rating scheme like Astraeus. There are enough quality low-hours people to have a choice of. With luck any scheme by the likes of GB or BMed will be along the lines of what I have wittered about above.

Just a thought.

sB

Lets just get the type rated unemployed pilots jobs first.

The last two posts kind of sum things up.

Indeed, why shouldn’t Airlines reap the benefits of those who have paid their way through training, showing dedication if not blind faith in their chosen career?

I suspect that the bean counters at BA et all will have but a huge halt sign in front of any cadet schemes for the moment.

Would I be wrong to say that this sort of training can only be set against ‘profits’ for tax purposes??

Maybe I’m just cynical but I can’t see any Airline in a loss situation offering sponsorships, especially when there are loads of self sponsored medium and high hour pilots out here.

Having said all that I know of three guys who have been asked for a sim check in the last few weeks…so keep the CV’s flying!!!...it’s getting better.

Clear prop

Although I do agree with you that things are looking better, I don’t altogether see SSP’s satisfying all of the Airlines demand for pilots. The dedication to their career as well as great negotiation skill at the Banks of those candidates are indeed well proven. It is a bitter, stony and hard way to get to your wings though – I ought to know years after completion I’m still paying. I don’t me to demoralize by saying that, it was well worth it but I think that more and more wannabes are thinking twice now-a-days before coughing up all that dosh.
But what happens to a wannabe if he/she can not come up with the necessary security to get a loan or the parents just can’t afford to send their kids through fight school? What carrier will or is able to give out guarantees to wannabe’s before they start their training?

The CEP,TEP or SEP what ever you want to call it, as run by LH or BA (up to 9/11/01) is/was a way, an opportunity for many pilots on the line today, and will in the future. As I said, it’s just one way, yet it should not be considered showing less of enthusiasm of a gonnabe.

Friend of mine who has just passed their cpl/ir has met with GB Airways recently and was told that they would, possibly be looking for some low hours people by the end of the year.

I sincerely hope so as i should have my frosty atpl by then :)

A-ha. Interesting snippet. Start researching GB and Mediteranean history/profiles...

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BA recruitment policy
 

A point to consider:

At the recent Flyer Exhibition forum in London, a member of the panel, who was in the past, I believe, partly responsible for BA's ab-initio cadet scheme was asked why the company used this recruitment method rather than employing more DEPs. He said that BA had found that by carefully selecting potential pilots and paying for their training they, in turn, received a large amount of loyalty from their cadets once they had entered service. To such an extent, in fact, that there was a marked difference between the DEPs and CEPs when it came to the length of time spent at the airline (and hence a greater return in their investment).

I wouldn't herald the end of the CEP just yet...

Well considering the DEP probably took a good few years working with other airlines to achieve the BA entry requirements, then its not really surprising that the cadets have a longer length of service and more 'loyalty'. Isn't this just common sense ?

How much does the TEP cost BA?

Lets say £40,000 for the course plus £2,000 for admin and selection.

This training spend can be set against tax - becoming more like £38,000.

Then for 5 years the pilot has a reduced salary - averaging about £5,000 a year. So the initial investment now stands at £13,000.

Not much given it gives you a pilot you can tell to go to X base on Y aircraft for Z years. And if things turn down you can always give them jobs filling the photocopier in Compass House until they are needed operationally. And you can chop them at any time during type and line training when you get to find out if your recruiters hunches are any good.

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Taxi Cost !
 

Just to pick up on your point about taxiing AMS, I think it is slightly flawed because you do of course log the time from which the a/c first moves under its own power until the time it stops at the end. Therefore you log taxi time, so this goes towards the required number of hours for license issue.
What I believe the cost comes down to is what it costs you to LOG 1 hour flight time, rather than what it costs for 1 hour in the air!

Hmmm... So far as I'm aware BA negotiate a fixed course cost with the CPL/IR trainers, which is at a substantially reduced rate compared to the list price. Furthermore the school is liable for a proportion of the cost of retakes and extra hours. License issue, exam fees, etc are all part of this course cost. So I would say that 40000 including admin/tax etc. is a very realistic figure. There are costs associated with selection, but do not forget that these costs are actually less than would be required for a DEP (no expensive sim downtime), so comparatively they represent a saving. The JOC course and type rating of course also need to be considered, although again will be no more expensive than the training required for a DEP (which is the "competition" versus the TEP scheme in this situation).

So, 40,000 is a nice realistic figure for the extra cost of a trainee versus a DEP or SSP. For five years TEPs are paid five grand less than the equivalent DEP paypoint - thats a 25000 saving. Furthermore the cadets are required to repay 15000 costs, adding up to... you guessed it... 40000 of your english pounds. Not a coincindence I think.

BA also get the increased benefits of screwing a TEP round more, and they're all selected to be good little captains for the future. I believe the success rate for TEPs gaining commands is significantly (as in statistically, not "many times") better than non-TEPs, though I'm not really willing to argue the point if people find that view offensive. :)

Hope that helps explain a bit of the rationale behind their recruitment policy.

Cu

Fact eh Visual? Would it be churlish to ask where you got your "fact" from? I mean, BA Flight Ops are hardly likely to tell anyone. And I've worked at OATS for a good while, and I have no idea of the contract price. Not that I'm accusing you of "fiction": it would just be nice to know where on the credibility scale you sit :D

Well, I know that weight of numbers doesn't make it true, but I would concur with Visual's figures. Wouldn't like to reveal my sources though! ;) ;)

for what it is worth I got in touch with BA about the TEP a few weeks ago and I got what seemed like a very (bland) standard response from their recuitment centre. It essentially said that since 09/11 BA has suspended its recuitment programme for the forseeable future and wannabies should keep an eye on their website where any changes will be posted. Not helpful I know, but it is their current response to wannabies!:rolleyes:

OATS fees
 

If your figures are correct then I can't be alone in feeling a little aggrieved that Oxford are charging self-funded wannabes double the airline rate. Maybe OATS are the most expensive option because those of us who are self-sponsored are subsidising the airline cadets!

I really can't see how any FTO - least of all one with OATS excellent facilities could offer an ATPL for less than £30k without relying on a subsidy from somewhere. Nobody begrudges bulk order discounts but this seems an excessive disparity in cost.

Desk-pilot

When looking up BA Recruitment web-page, you will see that they still offer the TEP program. That would indicate to me that the program is (will) not be cut but rather is just on hold at the moment. Visual and Cu may very well be right what the costs are concerned, but what is by far more important, I think, is the asset that a TEP is for a carrier. After all, LH has been running such program even after 9/11, and so have a bunch of others e.g. Emirates and AF if I’m not mistaking. Quite obviously these programs do have a positive impact on airlines; otherwise it would have been dismissed a long time ago.

Regarding the issue of self sponsored students subsidising airline cadets:

I wouldn't be too aggrieved - I believe that some ex-members of OATS management team were found to have been really quite incompetent at contract negotiation, hence the course being offered at less than cost to BA - not something that happens normally. If its any consolation, they did exactly the same with the Algerian contract - there's hundreds of them, and allegedly Oxford lose money on every single one!!

D'oh!

T'ta,
Cu

PS it also depends how you look at it - you could argue they're really paying 38K for the course, and the accomodation gets thrown in gratis - it is owned by Oxford so only actually costs them the maintenance. And then there's no subsidy, so no need to get aggrieved?!? Well, it was worth a try.

This thread is getting way off-topic, and you are now arguing on the basis of assumptions and guesswork, which is a complete waste of time.

The fact is that there is currently no TEP recruiting or training. I believe that BA will probably restart the scheme, but I also suspect that there will be a lot of arguing within the airline before that decision is made. In other words, it is not a given that there will be a TEP scheme in the future. The price that you think BA possibly used to pay OATS is totally irrelevant.

Don't hold your life in limbo waiting for BA to make their minds up.