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PPL - CPL Confused (need help with correct route)

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PPL - CPL Confused (need help with correct route)

Old 27th Dec 2013, 19:51
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Liverpool
Age: 30
Posts: 3
Snoop PPL - CPL Confused (need help with correct route)

Based out of Liverpool (EGGP) looking for a bit of help or guidance to correct training path, i know i am planning maybe to far ahead but just want a plan of action really for the next 2 years

Currently logged 23 Hours to my PPL(A)
passed Air law & human performance (1 hour solo)

age 23 and looking to go commercial, however this is the tricky part (for me anyway)

Having read that i need a total time of 150 hours 70 of which must be PIC but i can't have my CPL issued until 200 hours so assuming i enrol with 150 hours then do 25 hours dual i still need to find another 25 hours, thats without me getting to the 150 first.

So my main question is, If my instructor is right in saying 50 hours to PPL then i need to find another 100 hours, i don't fancy flying around just for the fun of it and spending 150 an hour just to add to my logbook, is there any way i could continue to train for example an instrument rating, those hours would then count to my CPL, or possibly a MEP Rating to count to my CPL.

Or am i going to waste money getting these and then have to get these ratings for a CPL?

There is so many different routes you can take 1 being better than the other etc etc, i will be funding as i go with my salary that i thought i should add.
Philrogan is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 00:07
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 46
You can complete a Instrument Rating as a Private Pilot, providing you have a Night Qualification, 70PIC and 50 Cross-Country PIC.

There is nothing you can really do without gaining these hours, and besides, your going to need the experience before completing a CPL or IR anyway. If your looking to fly commercially you need as many hours as you can possibly get!

- If your still a little incompetent with flying VFR as a PPL holder, then you'll seriously struggle at CPL and IR stages.
Don't forget your ATPL ground school, if you choose to do a distance learning course this will take you a while; giving you the time to earn and spend gaining hours. If your in a position to pay for a block of 100-200 hours get yourself over to the states!
jamesleaman is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 09:21
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Newark UK
Posts: 93
You need 100hrs PIC for your CPL issue, you will come out of your PPL with around 10. That means you need to fly 90 hours not under instruction anyway.

With my hour building I tried not to treat it as flying for the sake of flying, I tried to learn something from every flight and set myself a goal on each flight. I am fortunate enough to have a family member who is an airline Captain so I tapped in to his knowledge to learn NDB/VOR tracking, and I tried some holds and ILS/NDB approaches etc. I wouldn't suggest trying to teach yourself holds/approaches etc., but you could do an IMC rating then go up with another PPL as an extra set of eyes and practice.

I also spent a little time every now and then practicing upper air work, slow/fast flight, stalling, steep turns etc. and PFLs - it all comes up again on your CPL. If the weather was challenging, and there was a nice sporting crosswind I'd spend 30 mins - 1hr in the circuit just tidying things up.

I took the aircraft across to Europe for 10 days, to experience flying in a different country, apart from being a hell of a lot of fun there is much to be learnt from flying in foreign airspace.

My advice - don't treat it as 100+ hours of wasted money, treat it as an opportunity to prepare yourself for whats ahead and learn; a hell of a lot can be done in 100hrs. Most of all enjoy it!

Last edited by packo1848; 28th Dec 2013 at 10:54.
packo1848 is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 12:00
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,374
i don't fancy flying around just for the fun of it
This sums up everything that is wrong with the training system today. Years ago people did just get a PPL for the fun of it, then when they happened to have 3-400 hours just for fun, they decided they may as well use that experience for something constructive and "self improve" up to the CPL. These days, it's all about minimum hours, ignoring quality or actual experience level.

I don't see why you're confused though, you've summed up the requirements well.

You need 150 hours total time to start the CPL course.

You need 200 hours total time including 100 hours PIC to get the licence issued, which is after you've completed the course and passed the test.

How and when you build that PIC and total time is up to you.
RTN11 is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 12:31
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,263
This sums up everything that is wrong with the training system today. Years ago people did just get a PPL for the fun of it, then when they happened to have 3-400 hours just for fun, they decided they may as well use that experience for something constructive and "self improve" up to the CPL. These days, it's all about minimum hours, ignoring quality or actual experience level.
Yes, and then wonder why the airlines are specific as to the routes and methodology employed in their cadet programmes.
Bealzebub is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 14:01
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 40
I believe it's now 200 tt to take the cpl skills test. Recently changed
Lakhan is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 15:47
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: England
Age: 31
Posts: 30
Lakhan is correct.

In the UK, before recent EASA rule changes, you used to start the CPL on 150 hours TT (which you must go and gain yourself, 'hour building'), take your test, and then use your hours from the MEP plus IR to drag you up to the 200 hours TT required for license issue of the CPL.

However, the CAA are now stipulating that you must have 200 hours TT on test day. You could in theory do the MEP and IR before the CPL, but most instructors will probably suggest that this is a big step up and may be a challenge flying to IR standards without the practice of the CPL course.

Myself, I compromised. I did the MEP on the PPL which was easy enough and gave me another 7 hours in the logbook, then did hour building to take me up to 175 hours TT before the CPL.

So:

Finish PPL = 50 hours
MEP = 7 hours
Hour Building = 118 hours

By then you can go straight in to the CPL and you'll have 200 hours ready to take the test.

In other words, you've got to go and fly 118 hours of your own accord whether you like it or not!
dn88 is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 17:18
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,823
You could in theory do the MEP and IR before the CPL, but most instructors will probably suggest that this is a big step up and may be a challenge flying to IR standards without the practice of the CPL course.
Many have done it this way with no problems for years. It works out cheaper these days to do the IR first then do the CPL.

If you do the CPL in the twin you don't have to muck about with PFL's or glide approaches.
mad_jock is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2013, 22:48
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 477
For reference, I did my IR before my CPL and it worked out fine.

The 'flying around for fun' bit should really just be used as best as possible, challenge yourself to gain experience and get better and it will make things much easier for you.

One thing I will confirm for you is this:

Or am i going to waste money getting these and then have to get these ratings for a CPL?
If I understand you correctly, I would like to make a small correction. Under the European system at least, if you get an IR and a MEP rating on your PPL, you do not need to re do it for your CPL. Licences and ratings are separate things. If you do a SE IR for example on a PPL and then later on get a CPL, you have a CPL with a SE IR rating on it.
OhNoCB is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2013, 10:41
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 10
My thoughts for what they are worth ...

I'm a PPL with circa 120 hours. Only just got current again after a big lay-off ... expensive kids!

I'm 40 with no plans on flying as a career but with a "hankering" to be a flying instructor one day.

I've made a resolution for 2014 to crack on with the ground school and exams for the CPL. Going to do them via correspondence course, topped up with classroom the week before the exams.

My aim is to pace myself over an 18-month (or so) period with the exams so I can really enjoy doing it and have zero stress! As I understand it, the exams have to be completed in an 18-month window from the point the first exam is sat. Then you have 36-months to complete the flying aspect and flight test from the date of the last exam.

Sounds doable and I genuinely love studying anything aircraft related - wonder why I went into computing

Anyhow - it may not fit in with your aspirations, but I have none so works for me! Hope this helps someone (and that the above is correct) as I found this difficult to "get my head around" as it seems the CPL route isn't as popular (?) as the ATPL route ...

Corrections appreciated! Happy 2014 all.
teknow is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2014, 09:55
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 24
Take friends and family up for joy flights and get them to help cover the cost. As long as your not earning from it your not breaking the rules.
Black_Knight is offline  

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