ATPL JAR questionaire
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Italy
ATPL JAR questionaire
Hello to everybody,
I'm looking for the CD rom of the ATPL JAR questionaire.
If anybody knows where is it possible to get it or anyone who is selling it, I would really apreciate to have this information.
Thank you
[email protected]
I'm looking for the CD rom of the ATPL JAR questionaire.
If anybody knows where is it possible to get it or anyone who is selling it, I would really apreciate to have this information.
Thank you
[email protected]
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: Up In The Sky...
You're quite right. The JAA have not and I doubt if they ever will, produce the question bank in any format.
Lets be realistic, I don't think they should either, you could end up with people that never even managed to get a single GCSE, but have passed all the ATPL's, not a good situation for professional aviation!
Lets be realistic, I don't think they should either, you could end up with people that never even managed to get a single GCSE, but have passed all the ATPL's, not a good situation for professional aviation!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: uk
The nearest you'll find to "The ATPL JAR" questionnaire, as you put it, is the Oxford feedback. Most people who have used it would confirm, I'm sure, that it's about as close as you can get to the real thing without actually accessing the JAA Common Question Bank (which is confidential).
Oxford do not sell their feedback on the open market. The only way you can get it is by enrolling on one of their courses. However, they do do 2-week brush-ups, one for the JAA Techs, and one for the JAA Navs. They give out the feedback to any student on the course, for all the subjects covered by the course you're doing.
There are rumours that the JAA may decide to publish the question bank in time, but no-one knows when, or indeed, if, they really will get round to it. Personally, I think that they've got too much too hide. There would be howls of outrage if some of the questions they are using were actually published, because, frankly, some of them are not very good.
Oxford do not sell their feedback on the open market. The only way you can get it is by enrolling on one of their courses. However, they do do 2-week brush-ups, one for the JAA Techs, and one for the JAA Navs. They give out the feedback to any student on the course, for all the subjects covered by the course you're doing.
There are rumours that the JAA may decide to publish the question bank in time, but no-one knows when, or indeed, if, they really will get round to it. Personally, I think that they've got too much too hide. There would be howls of outrage if some of the questions they are using were actually published, because, frankly, some of them are not very good.
Last edited by greengage22; 7th May 2002 at 10:45.
SpaceRanger
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Samsonite
Wrongful JAA ATPL questions
Regarding the CQB, I had a case recently where the books with no doubt at all proved a question to be a certain answer, but the "correct" JAA answer was wrong ! Even with the usual argument afterwards, they would not give in.
Did anyone else experience this - a question they for sure not misunderstood, but where there either is no right answer, or where the JAA answer isn't "the most correct answer".
I think it happens a lot, but what can you do ?
Did anyone else experience this - a question they for sure not misunderstood, but where there either is no right answer, or where the JAA answer isn't "the most correct answer".
I think it happens a lot, but what can you do ?
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: oxford
It happens all the time!
Here's a recent example from the November Gen Nav JAA exam:-
"In which of the following situations is the FMC present position of a B737-400 Electronic Flight Information System likely to be least accurate?
a Top of climb
b On final approach
c Top of descent
d Just after take-off"
The only possible answer to the question as printed is "It depends. What is the state of your DME/DME cover and are you using the ILS for the final approach?"
On take-off, you'll have operated the TO/GA switch as you advance the throttles for take-off, so you'll have just updated the FMC to the position of the runway threshold held in the Nav data base, so the answer is not (d).
I think that the JAA expect you to have had good DME/DME cover over the cruise, giving the Kalman filter lots of time to generate a good accuracy at top of descent. I would expect 200 metres or better. But only if you've had good DME cover. Top of descent might be bad, if you haven't.
I think that the answer they expect is (a) - top of climb, because you will not have had good DME cover for very long.
I think that on the final approach, they expect that you would be using the ILS, and the localiser is used to update the FMC position virtually without passing through the Kalman filter. But there may not be an ILS where you're going to. Also, if there is no co-located DME to correct in range as well as azimuth, it's only going to be corrected in one dimension.
Furthermore, if there is good DME/DME cover during the climb, but the destination is in some unsophisticated airspace environment, there may be poor DME cover at top of descent, making that worse.
Basically, it's a lousy question, which can't be answered without more information. (a), (b), or (c) are all possible answers, depending on the conditions. There are plenty of examples of other equally poor questions.
There is a procedure in which the CGI of your FTO can pass comments about exam questions to the CAA and they will either give credit if the question is unreasonable, or delete the question for future exams. As an individual candidate, you can do very little. But you can pass your comments through your school.
Here's a recent example from the November Gen Nav JAA exam:-
"In which of the following situations is the FMC present position of a B737-400 Electronic Flight Information System likely to be least accurate?
a Top of climb
b On final approach
c Top of descent
d Just after take-off"
The only possible answer to the question as printed is "It depends. What is the state of your DME/DME cover and are you using the ILS for the final approach?"
On take-off, you'll have operated the TO/GA switch as you advance the throttles for take-off, so you'll have just updated the FMC to the position of the runway threshold held in the Nav data base, so the answer is not (d).
I think that the JAA expect you to have had good DME/DME cover over the cruise, giving the Kalman filter lots of time to generate a good accuracy at top of descent. I would expect 200 metres or better. But only if you've had good DME cover. Top of descent might be bad, if you haven't.
I think that the answer they expect is (a) - top of climb, because you will not have had good DME cover for very long.
I think that on the final approach, they expect that you would be using the ILS, and the localiser is used to update the FMC position virtually without passing through the Kalman filter. But there may not be an ILS where you're going to. Also, if there is no co-located DME to correct in range as well as azimuth, it's only going to be corrected in one dimension.
Furthermore, if there is good DME/DME cover during the climb, but the destination is in some unsophisticated airspace environment, there may be poor DME cover at top of descent, making that worse.
Basically, it's a lousy question, which can't be answered without more information. (a), (b), or (c) are all possible answers, depending on the conditions. There are plenty of examples of other equally poor questions.
There is a procedure in which the CGI of your FTO can pass comments about exam questions to the CAA and they will either give credit if the question is unreasonable, or delete the question for future exams. As an individual candidate, you can do very little. But you can pass your comments through your school.
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
From: Sarfend-on-Sea
A classic I saw from a Radio Nav paper :
Which of the following affects the maximum range of a radar?
a. Frequency
b. Wavelength
c. PRP
d. Pulse length
Of course all of these can, it depends which factor is limiting. The answer is probably PRP, as this detemines th maximum unambiguous range (this is not specified in the question).
This illustrates both the reason for multiple correct answers (or all incorrect) and the pure, unfair, deliberate nastiness of some of the question writers.
The question is only looking at the problem from one angle. The writer is either spectacularly ill-qualified to write radio navigation questions or has become so focussed on their interpretation of the question (and therefore the "right" answer) that they fail to see that as the question is written there are other posible answers. They have forgotten all their other knowledge while concentrating on maximum unambiguous range in this case.
Part of the problem and the focus is on tripping the candidate. Pulse length determines minimum range, so is a good wrong answer to offer if the examiner is trying to fool the candidate. The examiner forgets that with modern radars using pulse compression the pulse length can affect the required strength of the return signal and so, for a given power the maximum range at which a return can be detected.
Note that the effects of frequency/wavelength on attenuation and the influence of pulse compression on power recovery were taught in the course I attended, so all these answers fitted work I had learned towards this course.
Which of the following affects the maximum range of a radar?
a. Frequency
b. Wavelength
c. PRP
d. Pulse length
Of course all of these can, it depends which factor is limiting. The answer is probably PRP, as this detemines th maximum unambiguous range (this is not specified in the question).
This illustrates both the reason for multiple correct answers (or all incorrect) and the pure, unfair, deliberate nastiness of some of the question writers.
The question is only looking at the problem from one angle. The writer is either spectacularly ill-qualified to write radio navigation questions or has become so focussed on their interpretation of the question (and therefore the "right" answer) that they fail to see that as the question is written there are other posible answers. They have forgotten all their other knowledge while concentrating on maximum unambiguous range in this case.
Part of the problem and the focus is on tripping the candidate. Pulse length determines minimum range, so is a good wrong answer to offer if the examiner is trying to fool the candidate. The examiner forgets that with modern radars using pulse compression the pulse length can affect the required strength of the return signal and so, for a given power the maximum range at which a return can be detected.
Note that the effects of frequency/wavelength on attenuation and the influence of pulse compression on power recovery were taught in the course I attended, so all these answers fitted work I had learned towards this course.
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 4
From: Bristol, England
Oxford Blue, the examiners are testing a phrase straight out of the B737-400 tech manual which says the FMS is least accurate at TOD. The (implied) thinking is that the aircraft has completed an overwater leg where the FMS position has not been updated by DME/DME fixing and has drifted with the IRS position. There are several exam questions where the verbatim answers are found in this manual.
Paid up
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
From: UK
The FMC question would be a perfectly fine if it was prefixed with "Assuming a long over water leg with no navaids available..."
I think half of the battle with these exams is to decode the examiner-spiel, even if the question, as apparently it did in this case, emanate from a Boeing manual or wherever.
I think my old English Lit. Tutor (sadly now RIP) would describe the wording of such questions as "lacking intellectual rigor"
I think half of the battle with these exams is to decode the examiner-spiel, even if the question, as apparently it did in this case, emanate from a Boeing manual or wherever.
I think my old English Lit. Tutor (sadly now RIP) would describe the wording of such questions as "lacking intellectual rigor"
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Who writes this tripe? A 7 year old with special learning difficulties? I think its disgraceful, none of us are qualified in mind reading. How much time would it take to write a few qualifying sentences before the question. Nearly in every other exam be it GCSEs, A-Levels and degree finals questions are put to the board of examiners and any badly worded questions are removed even before the candidate sits the exam. Afterall in the above exams the examiner wants to get the best from the candidate. Doesn't seem so here :mad
It quite worries me that someone who can know the subject inside out can still be caught out by such as the FMC question. Not everyone appears to have the 737-400 tech handbook at hand
It quite worries me that someone who can know the subject inside out can still be caught out by such as the FMC question. Not everyone appears to have the 737-400 tech handbook at hand
Last edited by ILS27R; 7th May 2002 at 13:19.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
ILS27R:
JAA decided (in their infinite wisdom) that individual member states would take responsibility for subjects on behalf of the group (eg Switzerland produced all the questions for Met) and, most importantly, would translate them into English.
Despite protestations from the mother-tongue English speakers (ie UK and Eire), the JAA refused to allow translations to be moderated (ie checked for accuracy of English).
Even the aforementioned 7 year old with learning difficulties could have accurately predicted the outcome…
JAA decided (in their infinite wisdom) that individual member states would take responsibility for subjects on behalf of the group (eg Switzerland produced all the questions for Met) and, most importantly, would translate them into English.
Despite protestations from the mother-tongue English speakers (ie UK and Eire), the JAA refused to allow translations to be moderated (ie checked for accuracy of English).
Even the aforementioned 7 year old with learning difficulties could have accurately predicted the outcome…
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 4
From: Bristol, England
We're drifting off topic but, for the record, this is what the B737 manual says:
'..when external position updating is not available navigation accuracy may be less than required. Flight crews should closely monitor FMC navigation, especially when approaching the destination. The accuracy of the FMC navigation should be determined during the descent phase by using radio navaids and radar information if available.'
On re-reading the paragraph I think Oxford Blue's objection still stands. I read it only one way but the manual could be implying bad fixing either at TOD or on final approach. Have you queried this with the CAA?
To be fair to the CAA they do operate a filter system where questions queried by either the candidates or the CGIs are reviewed by FCL after the exams. In April they credited 19 questions spread over 14 papers, in March they took out a similar number. Those taking the exams this week will find several 'question deleted' marks in the papers where the offending questions have been removed.
Send Clowns: The old CAA version of your question had an answer 'all of the above'. I wonder why it was changed?
Back on topic, I heard the other day that version 3 of the Central Question Bank (we're now at version 6 or 7) was for sale on the web for $10,000 a pop. I can't find it!
'..when external position updating is not available navigation accuracy may be less than required. Flight crews should closely monitor FMC navigation, especially when approaching the destination. The accuracy of the FMC navigation should be determined during the descent phase by using radio navaids and radar information if available.'
On re-reading the paragraph I think Oxford Blue's objection still stands. I read it only one way but the manual could be implying bad fixing either at TOD or on final approach. Have you queried this with the CAA?
To be fair to the CAA they do operate a filter system where questions queried by either the candidates or the CGIs are reviewed by FCL after the exams. In April they credited 19 questions spread over 14 papers, in March they took out a similar number. Those taking the exams this week will find several 'question deleted' marks in the papers where the offending questions have been removed.
Send Clowns: The old CAA version of your question had an answer 'all of the above'. I wonder why it was changed?
Back on topic, I heard the other day that version 3 of the Central Question Bank (we're now at version 6 or 7) was for sale on the web for $10,000 a pop. I can't find it!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: swamp
Apologies to Devic for deviating away from his original thread, however I do feel that comments from Morning Glory, basically stating that those without GCSE's should not be a part of 'Professional Aviation', needs to be expanded on. If you dare.
SpaceRanger
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: Samsonite
CONSTRUCTION OF COMPUTER COMPATIBLE QUESTIONS
The following is from JAR AGM FCL Feb 2002:
I wonder if all of the CQB authors have read this?
I would like to emphasize
9. Formulate the questions and answers as simply as possible: the examination is not a test of language. Avoid
complex sentences, unusual grammar and double negatives.
and
12. The correct answer should be absolutely correct and complete or, without doubt, the most preferable. Avoid
responses that are so essentially similar that the choice is a matter of opinion rather than a matter of fact. The
main interest in MCQs is that they can be quickly performed: this is not achieved if doubt exists about the
correct answer.
JAA Administrative & Guidance Material
Section Five: Personnel Licensing Part 2: Procedures
Section 5/Part 2 10-13 01.12.2001
Attachment 2
CONSTRUCTION OF COMPUTER COMPATIBLE QUESTIONS
1.The following principles should be observed when developing questions for the central question bank (CQB).
General
2. The examination should measure clearly formulated goals. Therefore the field and depth of knowledge to be
measured by each question must be fully identified.
3. The more important the field of knowledge, the more questions should be included in the examination, or the
more points the answer should be given.
4. Most of the questions should be of the multiple choice type with four alternative answers.
5. Questions should relate to the essentials of the fields of knowledge and not to minor related detail. Numerical
questions which differ only in the numbers used and not the method of calculation test the same knowledge;
nevertheless, a variety of examples of the same calculation should be available in the CQB to help to minimise
cheating.
6. Purely academic questions which have no practical use should be avoided, unless they relate to fundamental
concepts. Examples of academic questions which are acceptable are the role of dihedral and camber in
aerodynamics, and the definition of dew point in meteorology.
7. Questions which require specialised knowledge of specific aircraft types, should not be asked in a licence
examination.
8. Use abbreviations and acronyms only in forms internationally recognised. In case of doubt use the full form,
eg angle of attack = 12 degrees instead of "= 12°. A list of recommended abbreviations for examination
purposes is in IEM FCL 1.475(b), (See also Attachment 3 to this Chapter).
9. Formulate the questions and answers as simply as possible: the examination is not a test of language. Avoid
complex sentences, unusual grammar and double negatives.
10. A question should comprise one complete positive proposition. No more than 8 different statements should
appear among the suggested responses otherwise the candidate may be able to deduce the correct answer by
eliminating the unlikely combinations of statements.
11. Questions should have only one true answer.
12. The correct answer should be absolutely correct and complete or, without doubt, the most preferable. Avoid
responses that are so essentially similar that the choice is a matter of opinion rather than a matter of fact. The
main interest in MCQs is that they can be quickly performed: this is not achieved if doubt exists about the
correct answer.
13. The incorrect alternatives must seem plausible to anyone ignorant of the subject. All of the alternatives
should be clearly related to the question and of similar vocabulary, grammatical construction and length. In
numerical questions, the incorrect answers should correspond to procedural errors such as corrections applied
in the wrong sense or incorrect unit conversions: they must not be mere random numbers.
14. Questions must be referred to the examination syllabus/learning objectives. [The level, eg ATPL, CPL,
should be indicated.]
15. An examination sitting should normally last for between 2 and 3 hours. Exceeding 3 hours may result in
wrong answers because the candidate makes errors through fatigue and not because the answer is not known.
JAA Administrative & Guidance Material
Section Five: Personnel Licensing Part 2: Procedures
Section 5/Part 2 10-14 01.12.2001
16. The author must estimate a reasonable time for answering: about 1-2 minutes, but could vary from 1 to 10
minutes. Consequently, the number of questions for a specific examination may vary.
17. Any documentation required to answer the question (eg tables, graphs) must be provided with the question.
Such documentation must be of the same typographical and accuracy standards as normal aeronautical
publications. Tables and graphs must include a typical example of their usage. All other documentation is
forbidden.
18. Question producers may assume that a simple pocket calculator is available to the candidate.
CHARACTERISTICS OF A QUESTION
! JAA MCQ number*
! National MCQ number
! Syllabus reference Subject/section
! Syllabus reference Topic
! Syllabus reference Paragraph
! Syllabus reference Subparagraph
! Origin
! Text of the question
! True answer
! False answer 1
! False answer 2
! False answer 3
! Question input date
! Number of associated documents
! Reference of associated documents
! Sub reference of associated document
! Kind of associated document(s)
! Validation
! Application ATPL(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application ATPL(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application CPL(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application CPL(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application IR(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application IR(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application PPL(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application PPL(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
*A unique number shall characterise the question and shall not be related to the syllabus. This number shall be allocated on the introduction
of the question in the bank and shall never be changed whatever the amendments to the latter. If the question is deleted, the number shall
not be re-used.
I wonder if all of the CQB authors have read this?
I would like to emphasize
9. Formulate the questions and answers as simply as possible: the examination is not a test of language. Avoid
complex sentences, unusual grammar and double negatives.
and
12. The correct answer should be absolutely correct and complete or, without doubt, the most preferable. Avoid
responses that are so essentially similar that the choice is a matter of opinion rather than a matter of fact. The
main interest in MCQs is that they can be quickly performed: this is not achieved if doubt exists about the
correct answer.
JAA Administrative & Guidance Material
Section Five: Personnel Licensing Part 2: Procedures
Section 5/Part 2 10-13 01.12.2001
Attachment 2
CONSTRUCTION OF COMPUTER COMPATIBLE QUESTIONS
1.The following principles should be observed when developing questions for the central question bank (CQB).
General
2. The examination should measure clearly formulated goals. Therefore the field and depth of knowledge to be
measured by each question must be fully identified.
3. The more important the field of knowledge, the more questions should be included in the examination, or the
more points the answer should be given.
4. Most of the questions should be of the multiple choice type with four alternative answers.
5. Questions should relate to the essentials of the fields of knowledge and not to minor related detail. Numerical
questions which differ only in the numbers used and not the method of calculation test the same knowledge;
nevertheless, a variety of examples of the same calculation should be available in the CQB to help to minimise
cheating.
6. Purely academic questions which have no practical use should be avoided, unless they relate to fundamental
concepts. Examples of academic questions which are acceptable are the role of dihedral and camber in
aerodynamics, and the definition of dew point in meteorology.
7. Questions which require specialised knowledge of specific aircraft types, should not be asked in a licence
examination.
8. Use abbreviations and acronyms only in forms internationally recognised. In case of doubt use the full form,
eg angle of attack = 12 degrees instead of "= 12°. A list of recommended abbreviations for examination
purposes is in IEM FCL 1.475(b), (See also Attachment 3 to this Chapter).
9. Formulate the questions and answers as simply as possible: the examination is not a test of language. Avoid
complex sentences, unusual grammar and double negatives.
10. A question should comprise one complete positive proposition. No more than 8 different statements should
appear among the suggested responses otherwise the candidate may be able to deduce the correct answer by
eliminating the unlikely combinations of statements.
11. Questions should have only one true answer.
12. The correct answer should be absolutely correct and complete or, without doubt, the most preferable. Avoid
responses that are so essentially similar that the choice is a matter of opinion rather than a matter of fact. The
main interest in MCQs is that they can be quickly performed: this is not achieved if doubt exists about the
correct answer.
13. The incorrect alternatives must seem plausible to anyone ignorant of the subject. All of the alternatives
should be clearly related to the question and of similar vocabulary, grammatical construction and length. In
numerical questions, the incorrect answers should correspond to procedural errors such as corrections applied
in the wrong sense or incorrect unit conversions: they must not be mere random numbers.
14. Questions must be referred to the examination syllabus/learning objectives. [The level, eg ATPL, CPL,
should be indicated.]
15. An examination sitting should normally last for between 2 and 3 hours. Exceeding 3 hours may result in
wrong answers because the candidate makes errors through fatigue and not because the answer is not known.
JAA Administrative & Guidance Material
Section Five: Personnel Licensing Part 2: Procedures
Section 5/Part 2 10-14 01.12.2001
16. The author must estimate a reasonable time for answering: about 1-2 minutes, but could vary from 1 to 10
minutes. Consequently, the number of questions for a specific examination may vary.
17. Any documentation required to answer the question (eg tables, graphs) must be provided with the question.
Such documentation must be of the same typographical and accuracy standards as normal aeronautical
publications. Tables and graphs must include a typical example of their usage. All other documentation is
forbidden.
18. Question producers may assume that a simple pocket calculator is available to the candidate.
CHARACTERISTICS OF A QUESTION
! JAA MCQ number*
! National MCQ number
! Syllabus reference Subject/section
! Syllabus reference Topic
! Syllabus reference Paragraph
! Syllabus reference Subparagraph
! Origin
! Text of the question
! True answer
! False answer 1
! False answer 2
! False answer 3
! Question input date
! Number of associated documents
! Reference of associated documents
! Sub reference of associated document
! Kind of associated document(s)
! Validation
! Application ATPL(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application ATPL(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application CPL(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application CPL(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application IR(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application IR(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application PPL(A)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
! Application PPL(H)
! Time allowed for the answer
! Score
*A unique number shall characterise the question and shall not be related to the syllabus. This number shall be allocated on the introduction
of the question in the bank and shall never be changed whatever the amendments to the latter. If the question is deleted, the number shall
not be re-used.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Between
Diference cqb 10 and 13
Does anybody know how bog is difference betwēn CQB 10 and 13? I bought from WWW.aviationexam.com books, but there are just cqb 10 
Thanks
Thanks
