This issue gets kicked around pretty regularly here in the US and our situation may be a little different than other places but the question is still valid either way. I don't know enough to be making definitive pronouncements but I do have questions about the advice.

Setting aside the US situation where the best career-destination airlines require a degree ( or if not formally requiring it, an applicant will be competing again legions who DO have one and who will get picked first), I wonder about the long term value of a degree for the person who went straight from college into flying for a living.

For sake of discussion, assume a person gets an engineering degree and goes straight into flying with no actual experience, contacts or current knowledge or industry qualifications in the engineering field. How valuable will this degree be 20 or 30 years down the road should the person lose a medical ? Will he find employment in engineering... earning enough to support a family ?

I used to fly with guys set up in this exact situation. I remember one guy saying something akin to "...if I lose my medical, I'll be OK because I have an engineering degree from Big Deal University...". Well, when he got that degree, they were solving problems on slide rules; he'd never actually engineered anything real. So I wonder how much value his degree would have on the open employment market. I just don't know but it's difficult to argue against more education, I guess.

I've known several pilots who did it the other way: they got a degree and had employment in a particular field...and then left that field and became airline pilots. I worked with an F/O who'd been a dentist and another who'd been a design engineer for Boeing. There have been a few MDs who left medicine for flying and one at my last airline is both flying AND practicing medicine...serious overachiever.

My lame attempt to protect myself against fate was to get additional licenses in aviation (ground instructor, aircraft dispatcher) with the potential to turn my flying years into an aviation ground job requiring no medical. Very fortunately for me, I never had to test my plan.

Interesting topic though.

you know what, I like that advice and that last line you got me there, having an additional license such as ground instructor or dispatcher, not a bad idea cause least you're in the aviation sector and as long as you are there, things will take turn for you eventually, and this is a marathon of time, believe me I find it interesting to be honest.

I was going to start a new thread but then I noticed this one so thought I may as well tag on here!

As most people who have posted (and aligning to the title!) my dream is to become a Pilot, I won't go in to the aviation obsession as I am sure it's all been said before by everyone else with the same passion but it's going to be a long road for me to get there and I would like to hear the thoughts of the people "in the know" for my plans!

I am just finishing up my A-Level exams this week. I applied to the BA scholarship this year, I did pass the assessments but it seems my statement let me down as I didn't get progressed so I know what to work on there, I have also applied for the Jet2 scheme but I have not heard from them after completing my Cognitive tests (which were something else compared to the BA tests!!!!) so I am assuming I didn't score what they were looking for - I am not too disheartened as I am only 18 and it was my first time applying for something like this and taking these tests and while it would be a goal to get on one of these schemes I am working on other options in the likely event that I don't land a spot on one (as I know how many applicants they get and how hard they are to land a fully funded route!). My main plan is pretty simple and it is to save up until I have enough money to fund a modular route myself - I have been working part time on a weekend since I was 16 and save most of of my (small!) salary every week in to a savings account, and I am (unfortunatley) due to get around 10k in inheritance which is being held on to for me, so I figure I have about 60k to save up to be able to do the modular route myself.....it will probably take longer than expected BUT I am a good saver, I was taught well and I hope once I have a proper job then I can ideally save 1k a month (possibly more depending on my salary!) as I will be living at home until I have saved up.

Currently I am enrolled to start a small Degree in September which is underpinned by Hull Uni but run at my local airport at the Aviation college there - it's a degree in Aviation Management with Pilot Studies, It's 2 year foundation degree with the option to do an additional 1 year at the end to turn it in to a full degree, I will see where I am in 2 years and make that decision then! The course is cheaper than a regular course at around 7k and it will be done via student finance but I am not taking the additional loans you can get as I will be living at home so I won't need them. The course is 1.5 days a week so the plan is to work full time, or as close to full time around that 1.5 days per week, initially I will up my hours (if I can!) at my weekend job, if I can't I will hunt for another job but the plan is to try and get a role at the airport, I don't mind what it is, but I would prefer to be in the environment while I am saving! My hope in doing the degree and (hopefully) getting some experience in the airport will be to end up with a good job in the industry at the end of the course so that I can happily save away with (hopefully) a decent enough salary while doing a job in an environment that I am passionate about. Of course I will regularly apply for any fully funded schemes that come up, if I land one, that would be awesome but if not, then I know I am still working towards my plan. The aviation college has ties with an onsite flight school where we get some free lessons, but also we get a 10% discount on the PPL so I am planning on using my inheritance and getting that started probably from april / may next year so that I can hopefully get it done over the summer months when the weather will be more favourable (I know that's some hope in the UK isn't it!!)

What do we think - decent plan, or completely wrong in how to progress

If you want to be a pilot, ditch the degree. You can always do one later. Save that money, put it towards flight training. Put that time towards working, saving and building your credit. You've got the basic plan, don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Thanks for the advice Rudestuff, the degree doesn’t cost me anything upfront, as in it would be via student finance which then gets paid back once you start earning over 25k a year - so even if I ditch the degree to get more hours (which is an option) then it wouldn’t give me any upfront money to put towards any flight training if that makes sense. I could of course ditch it for more working hours to allow me to save more, I just know from the aviation college they put you in to a lot of contacts at the airport so I was hoping it would also help me get a job in that area (as I can still work full time technically if they will fit the hours around the 1.5 days per week) but of course it’s an option to just try and get a job, but there isn’t much at the airport the moment (I’ve been looking) - I’ve got until mid Sept to secure something before the course, I will be trying to do that in the mean time and hopefully something will come up

Do the degree and you’re just tacking on an extra decade (minimum) of student loans. In the nicest way that degree is going to be worth not the paper it’s written on. You don’t need it to be a pilot, and it’s not going to be any use for anything else. It looks neat on the prospectus I’m sure and it’ll be interesting, but what are you getting for your tens of thousands of pounds that you’ll ultimately pay?

Want to be a pilot? Learn to be a pilot.

Fair point - I wanted to do the degree to have something under my belt to help get in to the industry (and also something to fall back on incase of any issues with the pilots saving, ie what if the costs tripple in 5 years, then i'm gonna be saving for even longer!), not as a pilot but just as a job for while I am saving to self fund for the pilot training. I know you say "want to be a pilot, learn to be a pilot" and that is the ultimate plan, but I do need to have a decent job that will allow me to save the funds to do it first and I don't want a dead end office job in an industry I have no interest in and spend the next 5-10 years hating my life while I am savings, so I figured the degree (which will be £14k in total, paid back out of salary directly, plus interest though) would help me to land a job (not a pilots job!) in the industry so I can be working and learning within the industry about other areas of the set up while I am saving for the training - is that not a good idea, is it better to just get a job in a call center then or fast food joint (some of them are actually decent pay these days!) for the next 5/10 years while saving, over doing that anyway alongside the aviation degree at the airport?

Obviously the first thing I need to do is try and get a Class 1 to make sure I don't have anything that I don't know about!

If, like many of us, you need to work while you train then working in the industry is a great idea and one that I definitely recommend. However that doesn't mean 'at the airport' - it means for an airline. Ideally one that hires cadets, ideally in some kind of admin/tech/crewing role that gives you access to the office (and all the important people within.)

ahh right OK I see, so the plan for me is to work while saving, but then once I have saved enough then stop working and focus on the training working through the modular route (still living at home and luckily my parents are willing to support me with my minimal bills and feeding me and not paying board etc during that time, and I am hoping to save enough to cover any accommodation for any time I need to be studying away from home) I am keeping an eye on Jet2 as that has the head office local to me, presently there is nothing suitable for an 18yr old with no experience, I will have a look at what other airlines have offices / placement / work in my vicinity so I can stay at home while saving.

I’m new here
I’m a Tanzanian,For now I live in Zanzibar Island. My dream is to be a pilot as we know every one have it’s future ambition. For now I’m a new comer in September intake at College, I’m going to take my diploma in mechanical engineering.
I plan to get the diploma in mechanical engineering after finishing that, I plan to go abroad to study Pilot and get my CPL.
So mmh whose know about these plan, what you gonna say to me

Don't post the same question twice

Hello all,

It seems like a good thread to share my story and opinion behind the whole university degree and airline pilot idea. I am originally from Greece, and I came to the US to follow my dream and become an airline pilot, but I had no idea how I was going to achieve this. I started studying Aviation Management at a US university through a rowing scholarship that I got. My goal was to finish my B.S., find a job, make money, and then start flying, but things changed. My family was able to start making my dream of becoming a pilot a reality a year into uni. I started with my private and continued down the path all the way to my CFI rating, which I currently use to build my hours. Throughout the 4 years of classes, I learned a lot about the background of aviation, I learned about how airports operate and their history, I learned about designing runways, taxiways, safety areas, and everything that surrounds an airport; I even learned AutoCAD, which is a designing software. All of this extra knowledge might never be needed in my future as a pilot, but I didn't stop there because my passion for aviation was not just to become a pilot and travel around the globe, but to educate and expand my knowledge in the beautiful industry of aviation. After my B.S. I continued my education, currently pursuing a master's degree in Aviation Human Factors, and I am writing my thesis on cognitive workload and automation dependency in single-pilot operations, and all of these because I just love learning, and I love aviation.

If you think that going to college is just an extra step to boost your resume and be more likeable to the airline recruiters then I would say don't waste your money into a 4-year degree in a random major that you would forget all about the moment you step out of school. If you truly love aviation and/or overall education though, then I would 100% recommend getting a degree in a field of your interest. I learned that college is not just getting a degree to please your parents or your future employer, but a personal fulfillment of your own personal goals and personal improvement. If I could go back in time, I would do the exact same things with more passion and focus on the things my professors were teaching me because I can proudly say that I loved getting to understand the background of the aviation industry, airport management, accident investigation, airline ops, and even general aviation ops.

Thank you for your time, and I hope this post helps all current and future pilots get a better idea of what a college degree can offer you!

Hello everyone it is my first time posting in this website so I am really sorry if I break any rule or my tone is a little less professional. I am a second year student in a well known university in europe and I am considering applying my home countries flag carriers cadet program. I really enjoy playing flight simulators but I always saw it as a hobby not a potential career path because of a number of reasons (lower wages, keeping up can be hard after a while, kinda unconventional etc.) but as time pass it is becoming more and more attractive. It is not really easy to find a job in high finance as I am an international student who is not an EU citizen also most jobs require a masters degree which is additional 2 years -a couple months longer than entire cadet program- also being a pilot ironically seems like one of the safest career choices against AI. Even though AI hasn’t affected finance as much as tech it is hard to guess what will happen in a few years. I know cadet programs are competitive but I am really really academically inclined and good at interviews because of my major, so I think I can get accepted if I can hopefully pass health check without a surprise. Also the thing which I am worried most about is exit opportunities. I will have a business degree from a very well respected university so maybe I can switch to an office role after a certain time(45-50 years old)?



Below I will list pros and cons of the program so you can have a better picture.



Pros:

Being able to start as a first officer in a legacy airline. If you get accepted to program you automatically graduate as a FO on 737 or a320



Paying after starting to work. You don’t pay anything until you start working as a FO. Until then airline gives you a monthly stipend during your flight training.



Big fleet with a lot of new orders: the fleet is pretty big with really ambitious targets for 2030s (around 600 additional aircraft) they also made a big order from being very very recently so maybe I can move to a widebody faster especially considering I will start working on 2030 if I get accepted



Many destinations: It flies more destinations than any other airlines I like seeing new places so it is a positive for me





Cons:

Signing a bond: As I said you pay for training after starting to work, you also need to sign an agreement guaranteeing that you will work until you pay back your loan. My family probably can help me with loan but I don’t know if airline will accept paying some of it to shorten service time



Many domestic flights: there are a lot of domestic flights to small cities so I have to spend considerable time in my home country. This is the worst part for me



I also Have to do 1 month of mandatory military service as I will return to my home country



Thanks for reading I am looking out for your answers.

Based on everything you've said I have deduced that:
1. You're American
2. AA now have a sponsored cadet program
3. The FAA have cancelled the 1500 hour rule
4. The US government has introduced conscription.
5. FAA Type ratings are now given without any training or testing

thanks for your reply and I am sorry for the confusion but i am certainly not american. I did not give any details about flight time etc. because there is not a lot of info about that and you just start as a FO approximately 18 months after starting date of the program so I don’t think it really matters. I am mostly worried about age related problems as I get older. That’s why I am asking if it would be possible to have an office role after a certain age using the business degree I have. Thanks for your help in advance

The majority of airlines (at least in Europe) offer multiple office based roles which you can combine with your flying career. That could be in things like flight safety, fatigue monitoring, flight ops technical and probably a million other things that I've never even thought about. For most of those you don't need a degree or even any real experience, just a good level of knowledge about the role you're applying for.
I assume, however, you are talking about management jobs, or even something completely unrelated to flying. You do need a degree in most cases for something in management, a business one might help. At a lot of airlines, those come with 0% flying rosters, meaning you only fly for currency (maybe once a month) and the rest of the time you're pulling your hair out in the office wondering how on earth the whole place doesn't fall apart. There's a reason most of us want to avoid being a management pilot, but it does have the potential to be rewarding.

As an aside, be very wary of anything that is "automatic" or "guaranteed" in aviation. As many of us have found out the hard way and more have yet to, that is rarely the case.

You just described American Airlines...

Hi,

I'm currently in my last year of high school in Greece, studying in the IBDP program, and I am in the process of applying to some flight schools and cadet programs both in Greece and abroad. I have always wanted to pursue a pilot career – it has been the single unwavering constant since I could remember anything. However, I'm starting to worry somewhat about my ability to make it through. Even though aviation has a special place in my heart, I was never very good at either math or physics and both subjects have always been difficult for me to manage. I would say I'm barely at the average level.

Should I be worried about this? Could my difficulty be a threat toward my career? Growing up, the number one thing I heard was "be good at math and physics", though I have been hearing it less and less from professional all over in the field. I don't know who to listen to or what I should expect. Should I prepare for a backup possibility?

Thanks for your help.

Nowadays being a pilot is not much of a math and physics, atleast not at level you probably think of. The highest level of math and physics is probably while doing theory exams and that’s pretty much it (you get your calc and formulas, don’t expect to solve albert einstein questions). I flew with many guys that claimed they always hated math and they were poor with that. Today you put most of your maths in OPT to calculate aircraft performance or other tools and most of the stuff is done for you. Most math you will use in your normal pilot day, is basic math, some times simple formulas that most of people will learn without any problems, it’s not rocket science. If you know how to multiply/divide even on a paper, how to use calc. You should be fine.

Backup possibility is worth to have in any profession you do. I know many colleagues that would have to go uber or driving trucks just to survive if something happened (see covid, many experienced people were doing anything). It’s not even about having a degree but being prepared. If someone graduated when they were 23/24 but were pilots since then, after say 10-15 years without having any experience in the field they studied in the previous decade, won’t find any sophisticated job anyway.

Hey guys, I am currently studying in the UK as an international student doing an aviation university course whilst doing my flight training. When I started my PPL one of my instructors told me he appreciates what I am doing, but the reality is that the majority of airlines in the UK hire locals only. I'm just curious if there is a chance of getting hired as an international and whether that might improve over the next few years