CPL skill test
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Russia
CPL skill test
I need help guys. I am going to complete my CPL training and I will have at the end 180 hrs. I know that I need 200 hrs to apply for the CPL license, but can I take a skill test with 180 hrs?, then do my IR and then apply for CPL with 200 hrs total.
I found an old thread in this forum about that, but I would appreciate your fresh recommendations.
I found an old thread in this forum about that, but I would appreciate your fresh recommendations.
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Newark UK
Max,
Just done exactly that myself, and now on the IR, the only effect it has on the IR is the hours of training required. You would have to sit the 55hr hour IR as oppose to 45hr with a CPL issued. If you have access to some nice cheap flying it may work out cheaper to fly 20 hours extra hour building rather than another 10 in a twin/simulator (depending on how your school breaks it down). For me it broke roughly even, so I elected to shorten the time scale and get on with the 55hr course.
Just done exactly that myself, and now on the IR, the only effect it has on the IR is the hours of training required. You would have to sit the 55hr hour IR as oppose to 45hr with a CPL issued. If you have access to some nice cheap flying it may work out cheaper to fly 20 hours extra hour building rather than another 10 in a twin/simulator (depending on how your school breaks it down). For me it broke roughly even, so I elected to shorten the time scale and get on with the 55hr course.
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From: EGYD
If you're training in the UK, Yes.
There's a thread about this on the Examiner section of this website :
FCL 1030 - Pre-Requisites for EASA Skills tests
Last edited by BigGrecian; 23rd May 2013 at 13:11.
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From: EGYD
Was effective 17th September 2012 when the CAA implemented the EASA regs ( from http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/Webre...kguide__v2.pdf )
Hence why there is a declaration on the application form which the examiner has to sign saying you meet licence issue requirements.
However some examiners and schools have been slow on the uptake, leading to some license issue problems.
Hence why there is a declaration on the application form which the examiner has to sign saying you meet licence issue requirements.
However some examiners and schools have been slow on the uptake, leading to some license issue problems.
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: EU
Not in accordance with EASA Part FCL you can't.
There's a thread about this on the Examiner section of this website :
FCL 1030 - Pre-Requisites for EASA Skills tests
There's a thread about this on the Examiner section of this website :
FCL 1030 - Pre-Requisites for EASA Skills tests
Unless this has changed in the past 6 months. Or, the examiners didn't really know about this, which is likely as the CAA and EASA change things every 5 minutes and they can't keep up!
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From: Neither Here Nor There
There was an example very recently of an examiner refusing to test a candidate with <200 hours, despite having been recommended for test by the ATO.
You would think that this would be made crystal clear within CAP 804 for ALL to read AND understand without any ambiguity whatsoever.
There is no excuse for this, yet another example of shoddy regulation by those responsible. They have been told enough times by industry that CAP 804 is a mess - they should get it sorted!!
You would think that this would be made crystal clear within CAP 804 for ALL to read AND understand without any ambiguity whatsoever.
There is no excuse for this, yet another example of shoddy regulation by those responsible. They have been told enough times by industry that CAP 804 is a mess - they should get it sorted!!
Last edited by 2close; 17th June 2013 at 14:12.
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From: EGYD
There is no excuse for this, yet another example of shoddy regulation by those responsible
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From: Neither Here Nor There
That's fair enough, BG, and it is about time that everyone was singing from the same hymn-sheet - my comment was related to yet another episode of ambiguity within the published document, for which there is no excuse.
Saying that, as a former CAA employee engaged in part in the checking of regulations pre-publishing I have personally witnessed us identifying errors to the legislators only to have our comments ignored and the regs being published with the ambiguities and 'loop-holes' in place.
Hence, I am not surprised!
Saying that, as a former CAA employee engaged in part in the checking of regulations pre-publishing I have personally witnessed us identifying errors to the legislators only to have our comments ignored and the regs being published with the ambiguities and 'loop-holes' in place.
Hence, I am not surprised!
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Newcastle upon Tyne
I was told by my FTO recently (within the last month) that I do not need 200 hours total time before doing the CPL test, as long as all elements of the CPL course have been carried out. 200 hours is required for licence issue, but not for the test.
Moving onto the IR next, and will be in the same situation as packo1848 - will need to do the 55 hour course.
Moving onto the IR next, and will be in the same situation as packo1848 - will need to do the 55 hour course.
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From: EGYD
I was told by my FTO recently (within the last month) that I do not need 200 hours total time before doing the CPL test,
Hence the point of this thread.
As some of the posts suggest the schools are behind on this and the exam cannot be conducted as it is clearly defined in Part FCL that you may not take the test. Examiners should, and are, refusing to test those who do not meet those requirments.
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From: Neither Here Nor There
Hi troops,
I have received it hot off the press this morning IN WRITING from CAA Policy that ALL requirements for licence issue MUST be met before a student can take a Skill Test.
Therefore, an applicant for a CPL(A) Skill Test MUST have 200 hours total time (plus all the other bits and pieces outlined in 1179/2011 Appendix 3).
I have received it hot off the press this morning IN WRITING from CAA Policy that ALL requirements for licence issue MUST be met before a student can take a Skill Test.
Therefore, an applicant for a CPL(A) Skill Test MUST have 200 hours total time (plus all the other bits and pieces outlined in 1179/2011 Appendix 3).
Last edited by 2close; 21st June 2013 at 15:01.
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From: EGYD
Does this apply to PPL skills test as well?
See the reference in :
http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...cl-1030-a.html
Last edited by BigGrecian; 21st June 2013 at 19:59.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: England
BG
Could you confirm that you are saying that the PPL skills test can no longer be part of the 45 hours eg the skills test cant be taken until the student has TT of 45 hours plus ten hours dual etc
Also if this the case are the CAA actually enforcing it?
Could you confirm that you are saying that the PPL skills test can no longer be part of the 45 hours eg the skills test cant be taken until the student has TT of 45 hours plus ten hours dual etc
Also if this the case are the CAA actually enforcing it?
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From: Neither Here Nor There
The EASA regs state that the requirements for licence issue must be met BEFORE the Skill Test can be taken - or at least, that is how they are being interpreted at Gatwick.
I would imagine that many instructors and examiners will interpret the requirements differently but you will run the risk of having a licence application returned from LSD FCL, should it land on the desk of one of the more 'officious' officers who goes through the paperwork and log book with a fine toothcomb.
Unfortunately, it is a lottery - some are more understanding and lenient than others and whilst this should never be the case with a regulator, it IS the case at Gatwick.
I would imagine that many instructors and examiners will interpret the requirements differently but you will run the risk of having a licence application returned from LSD FCL, should it land on the desk of one of the more 'officious' officers who goes through the paperwork and log book with a fine toothcomb.
Unfortunately, it is a lottery - some are more understanding and lenient than others and whilst this should never be the case with a regulator, it IS the case at Gatwick.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: .
In the case of flight test conducted and passed without the necessary experience for license issue and subsequently gaining sufficient experience? Please tell me they are not expecting the skills test to be taken again or something equally as ludicrous?
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From: UK
Now to throw in a spanner in the works!
My FTO has had it writing from EASA that a student can sit a skills test without the full hours for CPL issue, with remaining hours can be built after the skills test before applying for licence. This was about 3 weeks ago!
EASA have also confirmed in writing of an "error" on a document created internally within EASA has been misinterpreted by examiners/staff etc, due to the admin person creating this document and wording it incorrectly; consequently causing this confusion.
I didn't progress with my CPL until EASA had confirmed back in writing the true facts.
And yes I've just sit my skills test and passed!
My FTO has had it writing from EASA that a student can sit a skills test without the full hours for CPL issue, with remaining hours can be built after the skills test before applying for licence. This was about 3 weeks ago!
EASA have also confirmed in writing of an "error" on a document created internally within EASA has been misinterpreted by examiners/staff etc, due to the admin person creating this document and wording it incorrectly; consequently causing this confusion.
I didn't progress with my CPL until EASA had confirmed back in writing the true facts.
And yes I've just sit my skills test and passed!
Last edited by Cirrus_Clouds; 23rd June 2013 at 22:05.
Joined: May 2004
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From: Neither Here Nor There
CC,
Can you post the letter here, with ATO name removed of course; alternatively, PM me a copy and I will send it on to the Policy Officer at the CAA for comment.
I just love spanners!!!
Can you post the letter here, with ATO name removed of course; alternatively, PM me a copy and I will send it on to the Policy Officer at the CAA for comment.
I just love spanners!!!
Last edited by 2close; 24th June 2013 at 09:44.
