Bank angle and rate one turn. ques
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Canada
Bank angle and rate one turn. ques
Just some confusion.
When you do a 10 degree climb, it is just the aircraft pitched up to 10 degrees, and the same on a bank.
20 degree bank is a 20 degree angle for the aircraft.
Now when calculating for a rate one turn, it says 3 degrees per second.
I'm just curious, when were doing a standard 20 degree right turn bank, how do we know how many degrees per second that is?
I seem confused, or missing something..
When you do a 10 degree climb, it is just the aircraft pitched up to 10 degrees, and the same on a bank.
20 degree bank is a 20 degree angle for the aircraft.
Now when calculating for a rate one turn, it says 3 degrees per second.
I'm just curious, when were doing a standard 20 degree right turn bank, how do we know how many degrees per second that is?
I seem confused, or missing something..
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,226
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From: down south
Do you have a turn indicator fitted?
The pitch ATTITUDE shown on an attitude indicator is not the same as the FLIGHT PATH the aircraft is following.
The latter will be less.
The pitch ATTITUDE shown on an attitude indicator is not the same as the FLIGHT PATH the aircraft is following.
The latter will be less.
Last edited by Lightning Mate; 4th December 2012 at 10:18.
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: east ESSEX
Use the compass headings and a stopwatch; ie, turn thru` 60* in 15 secs=4*/sec..
Best approximation for a R1 turn ,at 120 kts = 12+7 =19* of bank. At 90kts =9+7 =16* bank.
Best approximation for a R1 turn ,at 120 kts = 12+7 =19* of bank. At 90kts =9+7 =16* bank.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: down south
Should any of you be interested, the most accurate way of calculating rate of turn, which has absolutely no bearing whatsoever with regard to practical flying, is this:
(9.81 x tangent angle of bank) divided by TAS in metres per second.
This will give the answer in radians per second, so multiply by 57.3 and the answer will be in degrees per second.
(9.81 x tangent angle of bank) divided by TAS in metres per second.
This will give the answer in radians per second, so multiply by 57.3 and the answer will be in degrees per second.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: United Kingdom
But if his aircraft is fitted with a turn indicator that is unneccessary.
Most are.
Most are.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,226
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From: down south
Yes, but they both employ a rate gyro, the only difference is that of presentation and gyro gimbal inclination.
Both will show rate 1.
Believe me, I used to have to teach all this stuff.
Do you know why?
Both will show rate 1.
Believe me, I used to have to teach all this stuff.
Turn indicators tend to be fitted mainly in aerobatic aircraft.
Last edited by Lightning Mate; 4th December 2012 at 14:44.
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Tropopause
Never seen an aircraft with a Turn indicator.
Not flight school, not in the airbus.
Only info we get from our instrument is the bank angle.
Why would we need to know how many degrees we are doing per second? (just wondering).
Not flight school, not in the airbus.
Only info we get from our instrument is the bank angle.
Why would we need to know how many degrees we are doing per second? (just wondering).
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Copenhagen
Because all IFR procedures are based on the assumption that you do a rate-1 turn.
All IFR approved aircrafts must have a rate-of-turn indicator. Most small planes have the turn coordinator as previously mentioned.
All IFR approved aircrafts must have a rate-of-turn indicator. Most small planes have the turn coordinator as previously mentioned.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 89
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From: Tropopause
Pardon me, but how exactly does the turn coordinator show rate of turn in degrees per second?
And jets don't usually have either from what I know. A normal roll scale on its attitude indicator is what's on most.
Also. I honestly never knew that IFR charts are based on a rate one turn.
Like the 45/180 turns inbound to intercept final course, etc.
All of these assume rate one turn?
And jets don't usually have either from what I know. A normal roll scale on its attitude indicator is what's on most.
Also. I honestly never knew that IFR charts are based on a rate one turn.
Like the 45/180 turns inbound to intercept final course, etc.
All of these assume rate one turn?
Last edited by WhySoTough; 4th December 2012 at 17:42.
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: IRS NAV ONLY
Originally Posted by WhySoTough
Never seen an aircraft with a Turn indicator.
Not flight school, not in the airbus.
Only info we get from our instrument is the bank angle.
Not flight school, not in the airbus.
Only info we get from our instrument is the bank angle.
Originally Posted by WhySoTough
I honestly never knew that IFR charts are based on a rate one turn.
All IFR procedures, designed according to PANS OPS require rate of turn 3°/s or 25° bank - whichever is less. The main reason why jets don't have a turn coordinator is because usually the speed during instrument procedures are so high that the 25° bank is limiting - for a 3°/s turn you would need a bank higher than 25°.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: down south
Only info we get from our instrument is the bank angle.
This instrument contains a rate gyroscope and does not, repeat NOT, show any attitude whatsoever.
The display is totally misleading because to the ill-informed, it looks like bank angle.
edit: I can post an image, computer drawn by myself for instructional purposes, if you wish.
Last edited by Lightning Mate; 5th December 2012 at 06:21.
