Type Rating Straight After Ab-Initio?
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Type Rating Straight After Ab-Initio?
Hi All,
Just need some opinions on completing a Type Rating on a 737NG/A320 Straight after Ab-Initio Integrated ATPL (0-fATPL+MCC+JOC)?
How many have done this, and has it given them an advantage for employment? Or has it simply just been £15,000 for the privilege of saying I'm Type Rated?
Just need some opinions on completing a Type Rating on a 737NG/A320 Straight after Ab-Initio Integrated ATPL (0-fATPL+MCC+JOC)?
How many have done this, and has it given them an advantage for employment? Or has it simply just been £15,000 for the privilege of saying I'm Type Rated?
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Most airlines wouldn't employ you at all unless you also had substantial relevant experience to accompany that type rating. The exception is candidates for cadet programmes, who may or may not be required to fund part of their type rating as an overall part of their advanced training.
For cadets, some airlines will want a contribution to the rating cost. Some airlines will fund it themselves as either part of the placement, or by way of a bonding agreement.
For cadets, some airlines will want a contribution to the rating cost. Some airlines will fund it themselves as either part of the placement, or by way of a bonding agreement.
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I would say it is a waste of money.
I feel the level you are at after you complete your TR training, is not sufficient to gain employment, because the airline would have to have a complete ab-initio training program ready for you, to train you!
It's a bit like when you get your driving licence, you only start learning to drive when you have your licence! Same goes for this, the level you at when you pass TR, is not the level you need to work as FO without further training!
You might be lucky, but the odds are you will not! Unless you have a job lined up, or get hours on type after TR, don't do it! You will live to regret a waste of money!
I feel the level you are at after you complete your TR training, is not sufficient to gain employment, because the airline would have to have a complete ab-initio training program ready for you, to train you!
It's a bit like when you get your driving licence, you only start learning to drive when you have your licence! Same goes for this, the level you at when you pass TR, is not the level you need to work as FO without further training!
You might be lucky, but the odds are you will not! Unless you have a job lined up, or get hours on type after TR, don't do it! You will live to regret a waste of money!
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It's not worth doing a type rating unless it's linked with an airline who are offering you a job, even then paying for it is pretty crap.
When an airline does a type rating in house, they are teaching you all the SOPs they have that you will use on the line.
If you just buy yourself a type rating, you will be taught generic SOPs, or possibly incorrect SOPs for a different company, which could harm your chance of getting a job with that rating. It's like the MCC course, just generic multi crew SOPs rather than the exact wording or procedures in use at a specific airline.
When an airline does a type rating in house, they are teaching you all the SOPs they have that you will use on the line.
If you just buy yourself a type rating, you will be taught generic SOPs, or possibly incorrect SOPs for a different company, which could harm your chance of getting a job with that rating. It's like the MCC course, just generic multi crew SOPs rather than the exact wording or procedures in use at a specific airline.
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Thanks for your replies guys.
On the subject of MCC's RTN11, Would you also recommend completing an MCC at a company like CAE or CTC over completing one at a less known FTO using FNTP11 simulators? Or is it not really seen any differently?
On the subject of MCC's RTN11, Would you also recommend completing an MCC at a company like CAE or CTC over completing one at a less known FTO using FNTP11 simulators? Or is it not really seen any differently?
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James,
You must get things in perspective. The MCC course is part of the process for getting your ATPL issued. At your stage of the game, the finer detail of SOP's that you are taught are irrelevant.
The MCC course of exactly that. It is getting a flavour for working with another crew member in a Multi Crew environment and learning how to work as a team and mange a number of normal and abnormal tasks.
When you join an airline you will take these skills with you, and you will be taught their SOP's, so please dont get too bogged down at this stage of your career.
All the best.
You must get things in perspective. The MCC course is part of the process for getting your ATPL issued. At your stage of the game, the finer detail of SOP's that you are taught are irrelevant.
The MCC course of exactly that. It is getting a flavour for working with another crew member in a Multi Crew environment and learning how to work as a team and mange a number of normal and abnormal tasks.
When you join an airline you will take these skills with you, and you will be taught their SOP's, so please dont get too bogged down at this stage of your career.
All the best.
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Just need some opinions on completing a Type Rating on a 737NG/A320 Straight after Ab-Initio Integrated ATPL (0-fATPL+MCC+JOC)?
Guess I'm just not commercial pilot material. Pilots must make rational decisions, and clearly blowing six figures on a vocational qualification in a saturated, notoriously unpredictable market is the first big rational decision that must be made by all those destined to save Earth from the dark depths of the Great Pilot Shortage.
Proud to be a reformed wannabe,
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What's wrong with getting some real world experience here?
Go get an instructors rating, learn how to fly properly, spend a few months/years learning you trade. I did. It did me no harm
Go get an instructors rating, learn how to fly properly, spend a few months/years learning you trade. I did. It did me no harm
James asks a reasonable question, and you guys come in like Rambo guns blazing. Your idealistic views on getting experience by instructing/flying a Tiger Moth are lovely and will stand you in good stead in the future but don't galavant in like a new romantic thinking you're morally and ethically correct for doing so. Horses for courses and some people need a little bit of nurturing before they become enlightened towards the better* approach to pilot training..
*in my opinion, for what it's worth
James, back in the halcyon days (circa 2005-7), you could have gone away and bought a type rating and pretty much walked into an airline job. Not anymore though. Things have changed and you'll largely be regarded as a fool to blow your money on a type rating without any chance of getting time on type. Research this well and refrain from letting the TRTOs dupe you into thinking that buying a TR is good for you, it isn't.
MCC - There are some good MCC courses around which don't involve giving your money to the big corporates like CAE/OAA. The CTC MCC option (otherwise known as AQC, essentially a MCC and JOC combined) might give you the chance of getting your name on a long list of people waiting for a job. The door doesn't open very often for modular candidates to apply for the ATP scheme so timing is the key. Ryanair for example suggest you MCC with one of their partner Type Rating Training Organisations (TRTO) but this doesn't exclude you from doing an MCC at somewhere like Stapleford and then applying to Ryanair. I know one or two people who have MCC'd at Stapleford and passed the sim check/interview for Ryanair.
*in my opinion, for what it's worth
James, back in the halcyon days (circa 2005-7), you could have gone away and bought a type rating and pretty much walked into an airline job. Not anymore though. Things have changed and you'll largely be regarded as a fool to blow your money on a type rating without any chance of getting time on type. Research this well and refrain from letting the TRTOs dupe you into thinking that buying a TR is good for you, it isn't.
MCC - There are some good MCC courses around which don't involve giving your money to the big corporates like CAE/OAA. The CTC MCC option (otherwise known as AQC, essentially a MCC and JOC combined) might give you the chance of getting your name on a long list of people waiting for a job. The door doesn't open very often for modular candidates to apply for the ATP scheme so timing is the key. Ryanair for example suggest you MCC with one of their partner Type Rating Training Organisations (TRTO) but this doesn't exclude you from doing an MCC at somewhere like Stapleford and then applying to Ryanair. I know one or two people who have MCC'd at Stapleford and passed the sim check/interview for Ryanair.
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Your idealistic views on getting experience by instructing/flying a Tiger Moth are lovely
some people need a little bit of nurturing before they become enlightened towards the better* approach to pilot training..
*in my opinion, for what it's worth
*in my opinion, for what it's worth
This coming from someone who was previously a dream-blinded naive wannabe ready and willing to risk the family home for a shot at some daft flexi-contract-thing. It's a job. It was a nice dream, but let's face it nowadays the 'Fate is the Hunter' type adventure, excitement and romance is long dead.
Don't worry, I'll see myself out.
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AlexDeltaCharlie,
The fact your age is written next to your post makes it incredibly difficult to grasper, yet very easy to read your response in a very comical way.
First thing is first, I haven't mentioned in anyway shape or form that I'm going to be spending £100k with the likes of OAA, CTC or FTE Jerez. If you do your research before commenting you'll realize that there are many other FTO's out there that do an Integrated ATPL course for less than half of the sum in question.
Your own experience? What experience?
Your barely legal to buy an alcoholic drink, you've probably not finished education, and you've lost the hope already. First of all I'd question whether you have the endurance to succeed in such an industry. Secondly, just because you'd have to risk your families home, doesn't mean others do. I'd suggest you give this narrow-mindedness a break.
The fact your age is written next to your post makes it incredibly difficult to grasper, yet very easy to read your response in a very comical way.
First thing is first, I haven't mentioned in anyway shape or form that I'm going to be spending £100k with the likes of OAA, CTC or FTE Jerez. If you do your research before commenting you'll realize that there are many other FTO's out there that do an Integrated ATPL course for less than half of the sum in question.
For what it's worth, my own experience suggested the best approach to pilot training was to do the PPL, get some appreciation at my naive young age for the obscene volume of money even the most basic spamcan bimbling requires (Daddy weren't payin' for it, see), and then walk away.
This coming from someone who was previously a dream-blinded naive wannabe ready and willing to risk the family home for a shot at some daft flexi-contract-thing.
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So does that mean that it does not matter where you do your MCC on a fixed base or full motion etc...?
Or is it that full motion will give you more experience in handling jets or at-least a taste of. This will then assist in any selection?
Or is it that full motion will give you more experience in handling jets or at-least a taste of. This will then assist in any selection?
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First of all I'd question whether you have the endurance to succeed in such an industry
Your own experience? What experience?
If you do your research before commenting you'll realize that there are many other FTO's out there that do an Integrated ATPL course for less than half of the sum in question.
I'd suggest you give this narrow-mindedness a break
*(c) another PPRuNer, WWW I believe.
Regrettably, this 'flu seems to have cleared itself up quite nicely, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to tear myself away from this fascinating but meaningless exchange and once again brave the gnashing jaws of the real world.
ADC - it's a shame you've chosen to exit stage left so early on in life and I hope that one day you'll have the money, optimism and time required to come back into the pilot training forum and progress from PPL to CPL ME IR. Unfortunately the recruitment environment doesn't favour modular students as well as integrated ones at the moment, but saying that, the integrated ones are just as shafted as the rest. You are right, common sense is a very important part of learning to fly, especially when it comes to researching colleges, courses and costs but to say that the common sense option is to totally throw away your childhood ambitions in wanting to learn to fly and become an airline pilot is stupid. Common sense is to perhaps to postpone that CPL course for 12 months or so, not a needless self-destructive, over reaction to a problem. This is a message to all wannabes, try not to cut off your nose to spite your face. There will always be a need for airline pilots, sooner or later anyway.
Just to pop into dictionary corner, I'm pretty sure the word he was looking for was endurance and it makes perfect sense to me.
Regarding 'you get what you pay for', there are students leaving modular flying schools entering Ryanair, only to be joined on the type rating course by those who left integrated courses, the likes of OAA/FTE. Both ended up in the RHS of a 737, one paid a lot more to get there, one paid a lot less.
100K might buy you a Tiger Moth and an old mans car, but those things wont last forever. What it does get you however is a career and God knows how long I would last in a career I hated. If flying is what you want to do then no one should tell you otherwise. You would be wrong to come into the wannabe forum here and tell people to totally give up and find something better to do with their lives.
Gnashing jaws of the real world? So you're playing Call of Duty then
AMS - fixed base or full motion, no one really cares. If you want to get the foundations of flying a jet look into a JOC, the MCC is an attendance course to teach you the finer points of multi crew flying, something which you won't have experienced in PPL CPL ME IR.
Just to pop into dictionary corner, I'm pretty sure the word he was looking for was endurance and it makes perfect sense to me.
Regarding 'you get what you pay for', there are students leaving modular flying schools entering Ryanair, only to be joined on the type rating course by those who left integrated courses, the likes of OAA/FTE. Both ended up in the RHS of a 737, one paid a lot more to get there, one paid a lot less.
100K might buy you a Tiger Moth and an old mans car, but those things wont last forever. What it does get you however is a career and God knows how long I would last in a career I hated. If flying is what you want to do then no one should tell you otherwise. You would be wrong to come into the wannabe forum here and tell people to totally give up and find something better to do with their lives.
Gnashing jaws of the real world? So you're playing Call of Duty then
AMS - fixed base or full motion, no one really cares. If you want to get the foundations of flying a jet look into a JOC, the MCC is an attendance course to teach you the finer points of multi crew flying, something which you won't have experienced in PPL CPL ME IR.
Last edited by student88; 30th Sep 2012 at 14:10.
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Endurance, eh? Not entirely sure what you mean there.
I sense a bitter sweet attitude from you, maybe this is the reason why.
Your absolutely right, commitment and determination is key, but it's not the only attribute you must have to succeed.
This forum is exactly what you make of it. Be quick to judge others on their choices and you'll receive exactly the same treatment.
Regardless, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you chose to do.
