Failing the personality test
Uncle Pete
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I cannot emphasize enough of the need to take pilot aptitude tests.
Google the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators and look for the download about wanting to be an airline pilot.
A lot of excellent informtion
Google the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators and look for the download about wanting to be an airline pilot.
A lot of excellent informtion
Last edited by MaximumPete; 31st Aug 2012 at 06:32.
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Whilst an interesting article, are we really surprised?
We live in a society ran by elf'n'safety et al meaning that kids no longer learn about the real world and instead grow up in a bubble.
When this bubble pops, they realise that the coursework based education they've received, at mollycoddling schools where they don't play outside for fear of getting a grazed knee, whilst teachers can't discipline or even educate for fear of lawsuits, has all been completely pointless in the real world.
They continue to run on the same tracks they have been taught to run on, and instead of rising to meet the challenge (something they are never taught or made to do), they write it off as being unfair and feel like the victim.
When we bring back conkers in the playground, cross country runs in the middle of January across frost covered fields for PE lessons, discipline in schools and an education geared towards learning and real life instead of nice looking statistics for whichever knob is currently in power... Maybe when we do all of that, we'll have a future generation capable of achievement.
I won't hold my breath though.
We live in a society ran by elf'n'safety et al meaning that kids no longer learn about the real world and instead grow up in a bubble.
When this bubble pops, they realise that the coursework based education they've received, at mollycoddling schools where they don't play outside for fear of getting a grazed knee, whilst teachers can't discipline or even educate for fear of lawsuits, has all been completely pointless in the real world.
They continue to run on the same tracks they have been taught to run on, and instead of rising to meet the challenge (something they are never taught or made to do), they write it off as being unfair and feel like the victim.
When we bring back conkers in the playground, cross country runs in the middle of January across frost covered fields for PE lessons, discipline in schools and an education geared towards learning and real life instead of nice looking statistics for whichever knob is currently in power... Maybe when we do all of that, we'll have a future generation capable of achievement.
I won't hold my breath though.
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Originally Posted by Socrates
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
Personally I think that the article has some points - that status is placed over flying is a problem. On the other hand, anybody being asked to pay £100k+ for something is a customer, or at-least offering a partnership that both sides need to respect. The youngsters do need to accept being tested, but the "employers" need to show rather more respect to these young people prepared to pay this much to enter a profession than perhaps they always do.
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I think this article highlights the fact that so many young wannabes (myself included, once upon a time) feel the need to jump right into flight training at 17/18 straight out of A Levels. The target market for the likes of CTC/OAA etc, certainly from the open days I attended, seemed to be young, middle class teenagers spending their parents' money.
There's a lot of generalisations being thrown around on this thread about us yoofs, a lot of which in my opinion fall a bit wide of the mark, but I do distinctly remember getting the feeling of a distinct lack of general life experience and social awkwardness about a lot of the other young wannabes I've met, and I've no doubt I exhibited those same traits while I was one of them. Perhaps I'm not really in a position to comment being young myself but I think I've matured a lot since my integrated-wannabe days- just having a part time job, for example, has really sharpened up my social skills, made me a much more approachable, interesting and friendly person, and perhaps most significantly, paying my way through most of a PPL (and subsequently deciding to move on and do other things) has given me a real appreciation of money that I otherwise wouldn't have had.
I do agree however that the 'status' thing is a big factor in attracting young adolescent males to part with their cash. Some people seem to be willing to pay a lot to get themselves a f*cebook profile picture in epaulettes. I'll admit that at the tender age of 16/17 I too liked to think that talking about flying planes and wearing the shades, pilot jacket etc would command respect and impress girls. It turns out it doesn't, in fact the whole pilot-ego-swagger thing probably served only to make me look a little bit odd and a big bit self-centred. As much as I knew that 152s are about as sexy as Reliant Robins, I knew that other people didn't know much about flying, and I played that to my advantage, hamming up the risk and difficulty. Nowadays I'm much more popular and respected for just being a nice, genuine person and not shoving my whole 'pilot act' down the throats of everyone I meet.
Apart from being cheap to employ, what is the appeal of hiring somebody to help fly a 70-tonne jet who might not have even had so much as a paper round as experience to guide them through life?
Just some thoughts from a self-confessed wasgonnabe.
There's a lot of generalisations being thrown around on this thread about us yoofs, a lot of which in my opinion fall a bit wide of the mark, but I do distinctly remember getting the feeling of a distinct lack of general life experience and social awkwardness about a lot of the other young wannabes I've met, and I've no doubt I exhibited those same traits while I was one of them. Perhaps I'm not really in a position to comment being young myself but I think I've matured a lot since my integrated-wannabe days- just having a part time job, for example, has really sharpened up my social skills, made me a much more approachable, interesting and friendly person, and perhaps most significantly, paying my way through most of a PPL (and subsequently deciding to move on and do other things) has given me a real appreciation of money that I otherwise wouldn't have had.
I do agree however that the 'status' thing is a big factor in attracting young adolescent males to part with their cash. Some people seem to be willing to pay a lot to get themselves a f*cebook profile picture in epaulettes. I'll admit that at the tender age of 16/17 I too liked to think that talking about flying planes and wearing the shades, pilot jacket etc would command respect and impress girls. It turns out it doesn't, in fact the whole pilot-ego-swagger thing probably served only to make me look a little bit odd and a big bit self-centred. As much as I knew that 152s are about as sexy as Reliant Robins, I knew that other people didn't know much about flying, and I played that to my advantage, hamming up the risk and difficulty. Nowadays I'm much more popular and respected for just being a nice, genuine person and not shoving my whole 'pilot act' down the throats of everyone I meet.
Apart from being cheap to employ, what is the appeal of hiring somebody to help fly a 70-tonne jet who might not have even had so much as a paper round as experience to guide them through life?
Just some thoughts from a self-confessed wasgonnabe.
The two most detrimental personality traits IMHO are lack of personal initiative...i.e no desire to learn anything beyond what you are taught...And arrogance...confidence is great and important-arrogance is a deadly sin in this business...that's why I think that they should be washed out in groundschool ---I don't want to trust my live to these jokers as a punter...youth and inexperience don't upset me...the two aforementioned traits are what scare me...I've seen many young pilot in Tech log and such with inexperience...but they are clearly showing initiative by posting their questions receiving the guidance graciously...because when the excrement contacts the ventilator blades...those aforementioned types are the first to turn...Yellow and in ab intio schemes unfortunately not all training captains are as good as some I've seen here...a few in particular are amazing in their teaching ability and I'd trust any of their students to take me home with the captain incapacitated in the worst of wx OEI---I definitely can't say that's my general sentiment though...
Airmanship comes not only or even necessarily through experience but also through initiative---barring very, very good training, which clearly is no guarantee that they had good training-too many lazy trainers!!
Airmanship comes not only or even necessarily through experience but also through initiative---barring very, very good training, which clearly is no guarantee that they had good training-too many lazy trainers!!
Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 2nd Sep 2012 at 01:21.
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You, Sir, are a gentleman of the Old School. I am guessing, ex-military and was an officer ? They always see the best in people.
I like to read widely if I can. I wasn't allowed to study the the classics at my grammar school - I wasn't considered bright enough so they made me study design and technology and the sciences instead
G-Rich I think you've misunderstood my post-the way my typing gets at times that's understandable
What I mean is that pilots must take initiative I don't think being a good test-taker [or cheater] is the best way to determine a pilot's ability...I think the best pilots take initiative to always learn more...when I see young pilots coming to tech log or questions thst shows me that they take initiative wrt to their own learning...there are some training captains that can teach a monkey to fly an departure OEI with the captain incapacitated in IMC with turbulence...I know several excellent training captains...but since this topic is about personality I think the worst of all personality trait is the type who fails to take initiative or an arrogant person...it does not matter the age because 20000 hrs of doing the wrong things doesn't make it right
but couple either an arrogant or 'learning-passive student' with a lazy 'tick box' training captain and put that person outside of a tight little box and you have a disaster waiting to occur...if I knew that the Training captains that I know trained the person i wouldn't worry...but if going by the lack of initiative I sometimes see then...I'm sorry I don't trust the 'system so easily
I hope I clarified what I meant better if you still disagree well that wont change my mind but I wont STFU
further another thing is these fake aeroengineering groundschool requirements seen out side of the USA are useless because..
1. It's far, far, far too superficial to be real aero engineering
2. It has very little to do with real life flying
3. All it seems to do is inspire handwaving know-it-alls
So basically I don't want arrogant and/or lazy pilots flying me anywhere in whichever seat!
Just IMHO but as Captain Bob used to say..."like it or lump it"!!!
Genghis ---it was even worse for me when I was a young kid someone looked at me and said that I'm a retard---no tests mind you---and by that I mean the clinical definition...although Von Karman's work does make me feel a bit dumb at times...
What I mean is that pilots must take initiative I don't think being a good test-taker [or cheater] is the best way to determine a pilot's ability...I think the best pilots take initiative to always learn more...when I see young pilots coming to tech log or questions thst shows me that they take initiative wrt to their own learning...there are some training captains that can teach a monkey to fly an departure OEI with the captain incapacitated in IMC with turbulence...I know several excellent training captains...but since this topic is about personality I think the worst of all personality trait is the type who fails to take initiative or an arrogant person...it does not matter the age because 20000 hrs of doing the wrong things doesn't make it right
but couple either an arrogant or 'learning-passive student' with a lazy 'tick box' training captain and put that person outside of a tight little box and you have a disaster waiting to occur...if I knew that the Training captains that I know trained the person i wouldn't worry...but if going by the lack of initiative I sometimes see then...I'm sorry I don't trust the 'system so easily
I hope I clarified what I meant better if you still disagree well that wont change my mind but I wont STFU
further another thing is these fake aeroengineering groundschool requirements seen out side of the USA are useless because..
1. It's far, far, far too superficial to be real aero engineering
2. It has very little to do with real life flying
3. All it seems to do is inspire handwaving know-it-alls
So basically I don't want arrogant and/or lazy pilots flying me anywhere in whichever seat!
Just IMHO but as Captain Bob used to say..."like it or lump it"!!!
Genghis ---it was even worse for me when I was a young kid someone looked at me and said that I'm a retard---no tests mind you---and by that I mean the clinical definition...although Von Karman's work does make me feel a bit dumb at times...
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G-RICH
Just to clarify a couple of things you seem to have misunderstood.
I'm not a 50+ myself, I'm about half of it. I came through school and saw first hand the effects of changing teaching techniques. Maybe I am biased, from my school year more people had ASBOs at the end than GCSEs.
As I understand it from talking to old teachers there, it's getting worse as kids grow up with less responsibility.
Now, I'm not harking for the days when 'i wos down the mines at 11', I'm merely suggesting that it would be nice to walk to my local shop at night without fear of getting stabbed by a 15 year old who thinks it's acceptable to do so (extreme example I know; writing to Daily Mail standards).
There is, overall, a general lack of ambition in teenagers, which is understandable to an extent as there has been little stimulus. It does make it more refreshing to meet a kid who wants to do something on the upside.
And just to clarify the most offensive part- I loathe the daily fail. No need to make it personal over a differing opinion eh?
I'm not a 50+ myself, I'm about half of it. I came through school and saw first hand the effects of changing teaching techniques. Maybe I am biased, from my school year more people had ASBOs at the end than GCSEs.
As I understand it from talking to old teachers there, it's getting worse as kids grow up with less responsibility.
Now, I'm not harking for the days when 'i wos down the mines at 11', I'm merely suggesting that it would be nice to walk to my local shop at night without fear of getting stabbed by a 15 year old who thinks it's acceptable to do so (extreme example I know; writing to Daily Mail standards).
There is, overall, a general lack of ambition in teenagers, which is understandable to an extent as there has been little stimulus. It does make it more refreshing to meet a kid who wants to do something on the upside.
And just to clarify the most offensive part- I loathe the daily fail. No need to make it personal over a differing opinion eh?
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Now, I'm not harking for the days when 'i wos down the mines at 11', I'm merely suggesting that it would be nice to walk to my local shop at night without fear of getting stabbed by a 15 year old who thinks it's acceptable to do so
t's not very fair to conclude all youngsters are like the ones in your area.
As said, people always think their generation is better than the new generation. I started to think that about the new generation of my age group, but in reality we are probably the same but I'm just more wiser to notice it now.
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(extreme example I know; writing to Daily Mail standards).
Yes, I agree. It was a bullsh!t statement. I believe it is commonly referred to as satire, whereby we mock something by accentuating certain aspects of it. In this case, the overeaction of another poster to my previous statements. Hence the brackets explaining it.
I give up.
