IR...Keep it current? NEW INFO

[bustalevel]

I need to revalidate my IR soon and at the moment I am note sure what to do. Could anyone give advice on the following points;

What are the consequences of letting my ME/IR lapse? I know that if you let it lapse for more than Five years you have to renew it with a CAA examiner as if it was an initial issue. But if I let it lapse for a few months does it really matter if I do not have a job that requires it at the moment?

I have heard "rumours" that if you do not revalidate you will lose your ATPL credits! This surely can't be true.

I know that to be desirable to a prospective employer it all counts to keep everything current. What if I did it on a single just to keep the IR current?

How does a revalidation compare to the initial issue with mr CAA?

If anyone has any answers or could offer any advice, your comments would be most welcome.

[ 25 September 2001: Message edited by: bustalevel ]

[wobblyprop]

i must admit, whilst talking to a GO sfo the other day, she mentioned that if you let your IR lapse you must resit your atpl exams again.

I find it hard to believe but i really wouldn't want to have to find out too late!

[Base leg]

As I've stated before less than a week ago-
You only have to do the ATPL's again if you let your IR lapse for 7 years- as for letting it lapse in the first place- how would that look to a potential employer during an interview ?
BL.

[Manflex55]

To add some reference to Base leg's answer :

JAR-FCL 1.185 (June 1, 2000)

(a) An IR(A) is valid for one year. If a ME IR(A) is to be revalidated, the holder shall complete the instrument requirements of JAR-FCL 1.245(b)(1), which may be conducted in a flight simulator or FNPT II.

(b) If the IR(A) is valid for use in single-pilot operations, the revalidation shall be completed in EITHER multi-pilot operations or single-pilot operations.
If the IR(A) is restricted for use in multi-pilot operations only, the revalidation shall be completed in multi-pilot operations.

[...]

(e) If the IR(A) has not been revalidated/renewed within the preceding 7 years, the holder will be required to retake the IR(A) theoretical knowledge examination.


Some flight schools around offer very good deals for the MEIR renewal, so staying current is not out of reach (in addition to being advisable) !

MF

[bustalevel]

Thanks for your comments folks!

If there is a gap of a week or two between the date when my IR lapses, and when I renew it again, it should not matter...should it?

It's a question of time for me, -aircraft etc-. When I can find a decent senecca and an examiner in the same place at the same time, I shall renew the IR.

I have heard so much about this loosing your ATPL's thing that I began to get quite cynical and question my interpretation of the situation.

Thanks for the info.

[Manflex55]

Aeros & Stapleford both operate Senecas & charge the same : £245 per hour, which is a very good deal.

MF

[The man formerly known as]

Cheaper still, renew on a SIM. Cheaper than a single, less hassle, quieter, not governed by weather etc. That outfit at bournemouth are authorised to do it.

I can't believe lapsing it for a bit will make a difference with an airline. You have to renew it on their kit anyway unless they happen to operate Seminoles.

As the guy has already said your ATPLs are safe for 7 years after your last IR revalidation. Cheapest deal is to let it lapse for 5 years then renew.

Good luck.

[Flysundone]

I let my IR lapse for six months. I revalidated it in July as I believe prospective employers prefer you to be current.

[bustalevel]

Thanks folks.

I have to say that in the light of the recent events in America, it seems that there may be no real rush to revalidate my IR. I do not want to throw money at something that can perhaps wait a little longer whilst I build my hours.

Am I thinking along the right lines, or is it just me?

Crazy world at times...if you weaken!

It will take more than this and it's wider implications to "keep me down"

Thanks for your replies.

Comments welcome.

[bustalevel]

Spoke to the CAA yesterday and despite reference to JAR/FCL as above (manflex55), they have said that you must keep your IR current to avoid loosing the ATPL's.

Now when I asked the question last month the answer was "if you go beyond 5 years you will lose theory credits". Now suddenly the goal posts seem to have moved again. Just what is going on?

Has anyone had a recent experience regarding this subject. It seems that consistency of information is not one of the CAA's best qualities. People must have spent thousands listening to incorrect advice in the past and it's simply not good enough.

I would be very interested in comments anyone may have.

[Manflex55]

Any official paper (ANO, AIP, etc) to substantiate this ? Most likely whoever U spoke to didn't know anything about regs.

It wouldn't B the 1st time (lots of trainees in Gatwick). Just an example : when I applied for my CPL, they told me on the phone I needed to send my passport as well for licence issue. However, I'm not comfortable @ all with sending a passport by post, AND this is NOT a requirement if U had your initial medical issued in Gatwick ! So I sent them back their own official document as a proof, & got a letter 10 days later saying "oh, U are right".

I intend to do the same for this particular issue & will send them an e-mail today. I advise everyone interested to do the same, quoting the JAR reference I mention above. Maybe they'll mention that in their "policy update" if they have enough queries. Here's their e-mail : [email protected]. These people just need to B woken up from time to time. Considering the stupid amount of money we all give them, the least we can expect is a top-notch professional answer.

MF

[Manflex55]

... & here's the relevant paragraph from the CAA Policy Update (01 September 2001) which can B downloaded here (Acrobat Reader document) :

"Provided that the IR is obtained during the 36 month acceptance period, the ATPL theory credit will remain valid (for the purpose of ATPL issue) for a period of 7 years FROM THE LAST VALIDITY DATE OF THE IR entered in the CPL"

MF

[Dan Dare]

1st IR renewal was with Redhill in PA34. No further training, straight into 1:20 test. Total cost iro £400.

2nd renewal on the PA28. No further training, straight into 1:10 test. Total cost iro £200.

Next year intend renewal on a twin or sim (tba subject job market/state of world/finances).

Don't think a/c class or type too relevant for job hunting, but I've obviously not done too well on that front...

[bustalevel]

Thanks manflex55.

I'm on the case. I'll let you know the outcome from my further contacts with the CAA -hopefully with the right person-...

[Avenger]

While you're looking for an airline job having a current IR is nice but not really essential as you will do a type specific multi pilot IR once you join up.
You are then doing OPC every 6mths and LPC every 12 to keep "current".
If you should then choose to renew your ME IR within a reasonable time you will be well up to speed.
Having passed the initial ME/IR the airlines know you've been through the process and thats all that matters.
Should you be aiming at air taxi or light charter work then I agree you should be current, in which case do the renewal on a simm, ideally the biggest type you can get on.
Good luck.

[hashdef]

Tayflite at Perth have an approved sim where you can do an IR renewal. £100/hr or so I think. However, you can't renew your ME class rating in the sim; this must be done in a real aircraft. Tayflite have pair of very tidy Seneca IIs for £300/hr. I did my renewal there recently and would highly recommend them to anyone. See
Tayflite

[bustalevel]

Thanks all for your comments.

I'm still waiting for an answer from the CAA.

I'll keep you posted, although as past experience has proved, the info I receive may not be accurate....cynical or what?

Thanks again.