Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.


Old 5th Jan 2012, 17:12
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: US
Posts: 15

I am a Captain with FAA ATP type rated on CRJ200/700/900, >10000 hours and current.
I have passed the 14 exams UK CAA new syllabus theorical exams, an FRTOL level 6 and a 1st class CAA medical.
I am scheduled to do a type training on a CL604 for a Europeen employer left seat. While I am trying to schedule the type ride for issuance of the ATPL and type, I have learned that only a CAA inspector can do the ride for the issuance of an initial ATPL, not a TRE.
The CAA requested 12 to 14 weeks to schedule an inspector and I cannot wait that long at the risk of losing my job. The delay is very frustrating.

If I were to do a JAR commercial in the U.S (can be done in a week). Would a CL604 TRE be able to issue me a valid JAR instrument and ATPL after the type training on the CL604, instead of having to wait for an inspector?

Thanks in advance for any advices anyone may have
propjet72 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2012, 21:29
  #2 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,419
No, the TRE can't do it for an initial JAR licence. The CAA must observe the ride along with the TRE. That's the drama.

See if the TRE can't do the organising for you, the TRE should have known about requiring the observation from the CAA. Also, there's the fee to sort out. Where do you plan to do the LST for the CL604?

If it's not in the UK, you'll be up for all the costs, ie transport and hotel. Expect to pay business class prices.
redsnail is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2012, 21:49
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: US
Posts: 15
The training will be done in Amsterdam. I am trying to go for a class at the end of this month. Is there any European country that will accept the CAA written exams and will schedule an ATPL practical faster than 14 weeks?
propjet72 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2012, 21:56
  #4 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,419
I can't answer that, it would take sifting through the JARs (or EASA or whatever they're called next week...) with a fine toothed comb.

I would get onto the sim training provider ASAP and get them to sort it.

Does the TRE in Amsterdam have the authority to sign a UK document?

Welcome to the wonderful world of united Europe...
redsnail is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2012, 23:15
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: US
Posts: 15
This is what I found,
Note that If you hold a JAR Commercial licence, a TRE (I can have one available) can do the exam, however if it is a conversion it requires an inspector (14 weeks)
I am not sure if the instrument rating can be issued by a TRE or if it is required beforehand?
Since I am in Florida I can do my JAR commercial on a small twin next week, this should take about two days.

Here are the regs:


An applicant for a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) is required to:
• Pass the ATPL(A) Skill Test with an authorised
Type Rating Examiner.
• The applicant shall demonstrate the ability to
perform as Pilot-in-Command of an aeroplane type
certificated for a minimum of two pilots under IFR,
the procedures and manoeuvres required with a
degree of competency appropriate to the privileges
granted to the holder of an ATPL(A).
• The Skill Test may serve as a skill test for the
issue of the licence and a proficiency check for the
revalidation of the type rating for the aeroplane used
in the test, and may be combined with the skill test
for the issue of a multi-pilot type rating.
• The Skill Test may not be taken until all of the
flying experience requirements for the grant of the
licence have been met together with the necessary
theoretical knowledge examinations.
IN APPENDICES 1 & 2 TO JAR-FCL 1.240 & 1.295.


A professional pilot licence issued by a non-JAA State
may be converted to a JAR-FCL licence provided that an
arrangement exists between the JAA and the non-JAA
State. This arrangement shall be established on the basis
of reciprocity of licence acceptance and shall ensure that
an equivalent level of safety exists between the training
and testing requirements of the JAA and non-JAA State.
Until such arrangements exist, the following requirements
have been agreed by the JAA and are now incorporated
in JAR-FCL 1.016.


The holder of a current and valid ATPL(A) issued in
accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State
may be issued with a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) providing the
experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.280 have been
met. Where credit is to be claimed for an ICAO licence
a verification statement from the issuing authority of the
ICAO State confirming the detail of the licence must be
included with the application to the CAA. Applicants’
• Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical certificate;
• undertake ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge instruction
as determined by the Head of Training of an approved
training provider, and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL
theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A)
• qualify for the issue of a UK Flight Radiotelephony
Operator’s Licence (FRTOL) -Section B refers;
• undertake a multi-pilot aeroplane type rating course
at an approved TRTO;
• pass the ATPL(A) skill test in accordance with
Appendices 1 and 2 to JAR-FCL 1.240 and 1.295
with, or observed by, a CAA Flight Operations
Training Inspector*.
*Applicants for an observed flight test for the JAR-FCL
ATPL(A) wishing to be observed overseas should
note that this will only be considered where there is no
possibility of the test being conducted in the UK. The
applicant will be responsible for all expenses including:
travel time/airfares/hotel/subsistence as well as the
Training Inspectors overseas daily rate.
propjet72 is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2012, 06:44
  #6 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,419
If you do the CPL route, the Instrument rating must be observed by the CAA.
If you do the ATPL route, the LST must be observed by the CAA.

However, I'm just someone who went through the process 10 years ago.

I would get onto the training provider in Amsterdam and get them to hurry up the process. However, it is the UK CAA and they have been known to be overtaken by glaciers.
redsnail is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2012, 09:44
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The land of chocolate and cuckoo clocks!
Posts: 140

If the Dutch CAA will accept your UK exams, FRTOL and medical, get a Dutch examiner and the end result should be a Dutch issued ATPL. You can always explore the "change of state of licence issue" if it still exists after EASA
Rat Catcher is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2012, 12:03
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: US
Posts: 15
Anyone knows if the Dutch CAA accepts UK ATPL theorical Exams?
propjet72 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.